[jmills8]

I personally like the "bright" sound of the HD800, one of their best qualities IMO. I hate dark/veiled headphones that hide the music.

I do use some EQ with my HD800, via the DSP studio in JRiver ... so digital EQ.

Here's a screen shot of my typical HD800 set-up. The lower SPL at 6kHz reduces listening fatigue, for me.
The lower "PreAmp" setting gives the amplifier room to "breathe." That also naturally improved the bass SQ. YMMV.

I would prefer to do EQ on the analog side, that several other folks have recommended.
Therefore - on the lookout for a Loki Max (balanced) from Schiit Audio ... maybe someday



Cheers,
RCB

ps. There are many more opinions and DIY mods for the HD800 out there! In particular, @johnjen is an expert.

So thats for vocals ?

 

[RCBinTN]

It does affect the vocals, makes them sound a bit more analog to me.
It also and tames the slight bit of sibilance that's inherent in the HD800.

 

[allhifi]

I've never seen HD800s for $800cad and I live in vancouver so you certainly have the wrong model number. How long did you compare the two headphones and with what set-up? This might be a case of not liking a vastly different sound signature and/or an improperly amped HD800 (if that is what you heard but I highly doubt it).

Imagine listening to an old worn out tape, it'll sound fuzzy and scratchy, maybe you won't be able to hear some of the background detail clearly. Up to a certain point digital sources can be inadequate, after that point your probably paying for a specific tuning and the brand name. Analog is more discerning but it also has a price wall, just way higher up.

30-minutes evaluation between HD-800 and HFM 400i's: Multiple headphone amps could be and were chosen -including the Sennheiser (silver, long chassis) amplifier.

It was the HD-800; is it $700, or $900. I don't recall (this was 2-years ago) but was far more expensive than HFM 400 (i's). The 800's were slow, prodding, veiled in comparison
to the 400 i's. It was no contest. And it was typical "Sennheiser" sound; bloaty, ill-defined -crappy. But indeed, it was one store; same headphone over the course of two weeks.
800's could very well have been 'off' (not working properly).

pj

 

[FritzS]

30-minutes evaluation between HD-800 and HFM 400i's: Multiple headphone amps could be and were chosen -including the Sennheiser (silver, long chassis) amplifier.

It was the HD-800; is it $700, or $900. I don't recall (this was 2-years ago) but was far more expensive than HFM 400 (i's). The 800's were slow, prodding, veiled in comparison
to the 400 i's. It was no contest. And it was typical "Sennheiser" sound; bloaty, ill-defined -****ty. But indeed, it was one store; same headphone over the course of two weeks.
800's could very well have been 'off' (not working properly).

pj

How did you think about Beyerdynamic T1, T1.2, T1.2 black?

 

[allhifi]

How did you think about Beyerdynamic T1, T1.2, T1.2 black?

Beyer have some brilliant 'cans'; however I have not had an opportunity to evaluate the models noted (T-1/2/1.2 etc.).

From past experience (concerning Beyer Dynamics), I'm confident I'd be far happier with some of the company's better
/ elite models than anything from 'Senn'.

pj

 

[bagwell359]

Ummm, the Hifiman 400 (i's) is a much higher resolving and nuanced performer than the Senn 800's -.and, at less than half the price !

pj

heh heh.

I have the Senn HD-600 which buries the HE-400i, the 800i on a crappy amp with no EQ sounds a bit peaked, but the 400i is a "fun" can with an irregular freq response that the Sundara, HE5, HE-500, HEX V2 all destroy, even the 560 and Ananda which are not my cuppa toast the 400i.

 

[allhifi]

heh heh.

I have the Senn HD-600 which buries the HE-400i, the 800i on a crappy amp with no EQ sounds a bit peaked, but the 400i is a "fun" can with an irregular freq response that the Sundara, HE5, HE-500, HEX V2 all destroy, even the 560 and Ananda which are not my cuppa toast the 400i.

HD-600 is a veiled, over-bloated 'turd' ! Indeed, it deserves to be buried.

It's a "fun" can (HD 400i): What exactly makes it 'FUN' ?

pj

 

[bagwell359]

HD-600 is a veiled, over-bloated 'turd' ! Indeed, it deserves to be buried.

It's a "fun" can (HD 400i): What exactly makes it 'FUN' ?

pj

Nothing makes the 400 "fun" I use that term sarcastically because there is no fun to be found in such an inaccurate headphone. Accuracy and revealing the music is what is fun, the entire 400 line (400S, 400i, 4XX) are not accurate.

The HD-600 is anything but veiled. It can do solo piano from top to bottom with clarity and correct tone, as much as a fan of the HFM line I am, the HE-6 and HE-500 can only do that modified. The 4** (whichever version), Sundara, HE5se can't even come close - far too much ringing and reverberations.

The 650 is veiled, that much I agree with, it's a bastardized 600 for people that wanted a "warmer" sound - but when warm is gained by veiling, and by decreasing damping in the bass - no, not for me.

 

[allhifi]

Nothing makes the 400 "fun" I use that term sarcastically because there is no fun to be found in such an inaccurate headphone. Accuracy and revealing the music is what is fun, the entire 400 line (400S, 400i, 4XX) are not accurate.

The HD-600 is anything but veiled. It can do solo piano from top to bottom with clarity and correct tone, as much as a fan of the HFM line I am, the HE-6 and HE-500 can only do that modified. The 4** (whichever version), Sundara, HE5se can't even come close - far too much ringing and reverberations.

The 650 is veiled, that much I agree with, it's a bastardized 600 for people that wanted a "warmer" sound - but when warm is gained by veiling, and by decreasing damping in the bass - no, not for me.

Accuracy and revealing the music is what is fun, the entire 400 line (400S, 400i, 4XX) are not accurate.


I've recognize very passionate can-fier's here -nice !

BUT, I do question some listener's interpretations regarding transparency, accuracy; the HFM 400 (i) is a remarkably neutral performer; frequency balance/response.
It's also impressively resolving/revealing, detailed and decently 'layered'. With the considerable drop in HFM (400i's) pricing, I can foresee use with lesser quality
ancillaries than what it deserves/is capable of revealing. ( The HFM 400S, on the other hand, are far too peaky/bright. The (i's) are far more 'polished' -and accurate.)

When I hear a listener state (the 400i's) has too much "ringing" and "reverberation", it suggests to me the ancillary gear/source is FAR from ideal/clean, or resolving
-or even musical for that matter.
Ringing/Reverberation can very easily be reproduced when the 400i's (or any other resolving transducer) are connected to subpar electronics/source; reproducing
the signal received. And with such a capable/resolving headphone, it will be very easy to pick out substandard amplification/source/cables etc.

And before I continue further, I certainly must reaffirm the Sennheiser models numbers I spoke to earlier. (I'm quite sure I have photo's of the set-up -somewhere)

pj
( P.S> Is the newer 600-series (Senn) the 660's ? )

 

[jmills8]

Great personal opinions. Nothing more nor less.

 

[bagwell359]

Accuracy and revealing the music is what is fun, the entire 400 line (400S, 400i, 4XX) are not accurate.


I've recognize very passionate can-fier's here -nice !

BUT, I do question some listener's interpretations regarding transparency, accuracy; the HFM 400 (i) is a remarkably neutral performer; frequency balance/response.
It's also impressively resolving/revealing, detailed and decently 'layered'. With the considerable drop in HFM (400i's) pricing, I can foresee use with lesser quality
ancillaries than what it deserves/is capable of revealing. ( The HFM 400S, on the other hand, are far too peaky/bright. The (i's) are far more 'polished' -and accurate.)

When I hear a listener state (the 400i's) has too much "ringing" and "reverberation", it suggests to me the ancillary gear/source is FAR from ideal/clean, or resolving
-or even musical for that matter.
Ringing/Reverberation can very easily be reproduced when the 400i's (or any other resolving transducer) are connected to subpar electronics/source; reproducing
the signal received. And with such a capable/resolving headphone, it will be very easy to pick out substandard amplification/source/cables etc.

And before I continue further, I certainly must reaffirm the Sennheiser models numbers I spoke to earlier. (I'm quite sure I have photo's of the set-up -somewhere)

pj
( P.S> Is the newer 600-series (Senn) the 660's ? )

Look at my Sig, my gear is above average, I also use a FiiO X3 occasionally. It should be noted that of the 9 HFM cans I mention below, the 400i changed the least with better cable, pads, and ancillary - almost for sure since its the least revealing and lowest quality of the nine.

More than half the cans I've owned since 2015 are HFM: 400i, HE5-..LE, HE5se, HE-500, HEX V2 - and I haven't changed my amp or DAC since 2015 - the 400i is the least of the group. Also had lots of exposure to other HFM cans such as: the HE-6, Ananda, 560, and Sundara - the 400i is clearly the bottom of the barrel compared to all the others. Now I do like it better than the: Audeze LCD2-2C, Fostex FH500RP, MD-X00 but all 3 are fatally flawed the 400i wins by default.

BTW, HFM's of the pre HEK and HEX era ring and reverberate a lot. Part of it is lack of control of the driver after the signal, there is very little to stop it. The reverberation is worse in the HE-500 and HE-6 because of the two sided output, but when time is taken to modifiy them they reward the user with the best sound HFM had until about 6 years after their release.

The 660 is supposed to be more like the 600, then the 650. Haven't heard it. Don't generally like Senn's but the 600 is pretty amazing at the price. Trying to get a new pair of HFM HE5se's to sound better with mods and its slow going. They can't be modded as much as the 6 or 500, they don't sound like speakers as the others do, and the image is a bit of an issue vs some other HFM's. Big HFM fan, but they are far from perfect, and like most planars they have issues with ringing. And like many cans, they have issues with reverberations.

 

[RCBinTN]

Unsubscribed. Enjoy the pointless argument.

 

[SilverEars]

Unsubscribed. Enjoy the pointless argument.

One big difference is, @RCBinTN has a BHA-1. The Bryston smoothens the peaks on the HD800 a bit. I think it's the general nature of the amp. It's unlike what people generally expect of solid-state.

I agree 600 is a great value, and so is the 6XX. What's great about the 6 series is the forward mids, and this is what HD800(S) doesn't have on the 6 series. 800(S) tonally is tuned a bit like Beyers, no? With a bit of treble emphasis, so you hope an amp can bring it down a notch or two.

Ideally, what I want is, sound stage and clarity/tightness of the 800(s), the mids and general tonality of the 6 series. And perhaps a bit more bass, particularly the subs.

 

[RCBinTN]

Right ... the BHA-1 has a very calm demeanor about its sound, for a SS amp, and plenty of power. Nice being at my end-game.
Here's a fun fact about the BHA-1. I bought mine new from Moon-Audio, a few years back, for $1,495. Now they want $2,195.

The only fault I find with the HD800 -- they are very picky about upstream gear and music quality.
Without a proper DAC and amp, they will always sound bright ... to the point of being unlistenable.
That may be what happened to @allhifi.

I think David called this behavior "amp picky." He is very eloquent.

My first amps - Schiit Audio's Asgard and Mjolnir1 - were too bright.
The Sennheiser HDVA600, designed for HD800, was better but was too tame - missing the oomph factor.
The Schiit Gungnir D/S DAC was also quite bright. The Gungnir MB is not ... it's worlds better than the D/S version, IMO.
It would be interesting to test the HD800 with the Gumby and Asgard or Mjolnir1 amps, but they are long gone.

In addition, poorly-produced music sounds like ass. MP3, even 320kbps, doesn't work ... needs to be FLAC/ALAC or better.
That's (one reason) why I don't stream music. Maybe when Qobuz is fully deployed in the US.

It's the old garbage in = garbage out scenario that all process engineers and computer coders understand.
The cool thing is ... when you hit the right combination, you know it immediately

Prosit,
RCB

ps. There is much more information on Head-Fi about how to make the HD800 work.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread.650510/

 

[SilverEars]

Right ... the BHA-1 has a very calm demeanor about its sound, for a SS amp, and plenty of power. Nice being at my end-game.
Here's a fun fact about the BHA-1. I bought mine new from Moon-Audio, a few years back, for $1,495. Now they want $2,195.

The only fault I find with the HD800 -- they are very picky about upstream gear and music quality.
Without a proper DAC and amp, they will always sound bright ... to the point of being unlistenable.
That may be what happened to @allhifi.

I think David called this behavior "amp picky." He is very eloquent.

My first amps - Schiit Audio's Asgard and Mjolnir1 - were too bright.
The Sennheiser HDVA600, designed for HD800, was better but was too tame - missing the oomph factor.
The Schiit Gungnir D/S DAC was also quite bright. The Gungnir MB is not ... it's worlds better than the D/S version, IMO.
It would be interesting to test the HD800 with the Gumby and Asgard or Mjolnir1 amps, but they are long gone.

In addition, poorly-produced music sounds like ass. MP3, even 320kbps, doesn't work ... needs to be FLAC/ALAC or better.
That's (one reason) why I don't stream music. Maybe when Qobuz is fully deployed in the US.

It's the old garbage in = garbage out scenario that all process engineers and computer coders understand.
The cool thing is ... when you hit the right combination, you know it immediately

Prosit,
RCB

ps. There is much more information on Head-Fi about how to make the HD800 work.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread.650510/

I think using word picky, and anything that sound pleasant on it is just garbage reads as a partial perspective in how it's described (not objective). It can be also describe in other ways. I know people who speaks highly of HD800 are ones that listen to jazz and classical only. If you listen to those two genre only, harshiness of the headphone will not show. So, it's not a well rounded assessment.