Earbuds Round-Up
Apr 20, 2021 at 5:21 PM Post #53,551 of 75,200
You are then in the minority. TOTL around the ear headphones are ALL open backs.
Orpheus
Stax
Abyss
Audeze
Sennheiser

In absolutely every case, the nec plus ultra, the ultimate sound is always in open backs, for physical reasons.

You can still prefer closed, as I madly love the Denon (7200/9200) for example, but they reach a limit in soundstage, separation, air etc...due to resonance and the very nature of closed backs.

So the most expansive cans are usually open. Whereas with earbuds it’s the opposite. Iems are far more $$$$
I honestly prefer open back headphones, but again it all depends on personal taste.
On the other hand, there are no closed earbuds, the vents on the shell (even stem) always make them open.
If the shell were completely closed then the sound would congest.
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 5:26 PM Post #53,552 of 75,200
Fiio FH7 ?
Sennheiser HD25 ?
What is your question?
Don't tell me you're looking for a recommendation for one of these two models on the earbud thread :wink:
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 5:38 PM Post #53,554 of 75,200
Any opinion on the Zen LL ? It’s not a cheap earbud; but the shell is apparently smaller. I think as small as the Monk Lite.
They arrived today at my house. Is small compare to the monk, pk, and mx500 shells. Now I listen and my early impressions are awesome.

WhatsApp Image 2021-04-20 at 16.14.35.jpeg
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 5:49 PM Post #53,555 of 75,200
Earbuds are like being in a live music venue. IEM's are like being at the mixing desk in a music production studio.
excellent summary of the differences.
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 5:52 PM Post #53,556 of 75,200
Earbuds are like being in a live music venue. IEM's are like being at the mixing desk in a music production studio.
most accurate sentence to compare it.
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 7:13 PM Post #53,557 of 75,200
Sounds nice, what do you think about the sub-bass on the Chaconne? Still like a typical bud (closer to the viridis than the X6)?
Yea, I think so. They're not bass oriented earbuds by any means. Chaconne's driver is very capable though so subbass region does take eq very well without distortion.

Sub-bass wise (without eq), from what I've tried the following buds have the best:
1) Smabat ST-10s Gold
2) FAAEAL Rosemary
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 8:59 PM Post #53,559 of 75,200
Do you have the Zen 2.0 ? Any comparaison with the LL? I’m very close to ordering them.
I don't have the Zen 2.0, but this my initial impressions posted on aliexpress:

"Very impressed with this Zen LL. Good build quality, the 4,4 adapter can kill a tank. Comfortable for small ears and the sound is brutal. The bass has more quality than earbuds in the price segment. The clarity in mids and treble ¡and without burning time! I hope this gets better and better with time. The seller adds masks and one USB DAC as a gift. He convinces me to buy the TOTL ZEN in the future."

In my opinion is a win win with this earbud.
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 9:50 PM Post #53,560 of 75,200
Well? Beryllium is used to make cell phones/smart phones too, so do you trust your phone, which is actually made in China? So, to be honest with you is not that I trust Chi-fi products, I just enjoy them.

https://telanganatoday.com/beryllium-is-highly-toxic-yet-useful

-Clear :wink:

Actually other than some full beryllium types (eg for CHIFI IEMs it be expensive stuff like the DUNU LUNA and Final Audio A8000), I suspect a lot of cheaper sets that are beryllium plated and coated may be a marketing gimmick. For sure there are some beryllium sets that are properly implemented and the beryllium deposit really makes a difference to the sound, eg textured bass, takes EQ like a champ, those seem to be hallmarks of beryllium drivers. But I've heard some purported beryllium budget CHIFI IEMs that don't really sound different from a conventional driver type IEM.

The KBEAR BElieve is also purported to be a full beryllium single DD, but the jury is still out on whether that is true. I know BGGAR and some folks have opened the shell to show that the driver looks like beryllium, but nobody has a spectrometer or tools to really prove whether it is a full beryllium or some other metal or even the % purity.

The official DUNU folks here on headfi made some interesting comments about the lining/material of beryllium drivers: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-2968#post-15288735
"The PVD layer has to be thick enough and the microscopic grain pattern has to be regular enough to confer that pistonic motion beryllium is so famous for. That's why our sub-$100 products (DM-380 and DM-480) are still titanium drivers. Even the TITAN 6, at $139, is only coated on one side."

Personally I have a sneaky suspicion that at the budget CHIFI level, some of these novel material applications on drivers may be an element of marketing gimick, to stand out from the fierce competition at that price range. For all we know they are just sprinkling a few flakes of certain coatings on their drivers instead of uniformly applying it in the prescribed quantities to truly be effective.

Slater has a good post here about this issue: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1874#post-15293524 -> see the last paragraph, if the material is sprayed on improperly or not implemented well, the driver may actually sound worse.

So DUNU says they have difficulty implementing this Beryllium coating in their sub $100 USD gear. And we already see unit variation in macroscopic areas in these budget CHIFI in terms of sound and build, so forgive me for being skeptical that some CHIFI budget IEMs can ensure good QC for all their units when it comes to microscopic application of these novel materials in the proper layering. Possibly for expensive high end gear like DUNU LUNA or Focal Utopias, the beryllium may be properly coated and the sound is really unique cause of these properties.

All these special materials, be it beryllium, graphene or diamond or whatever, needs to be coated and implemented properly to truly make a difference. In fact if you coat it wrongly it may make the driver sound worse by affecting its physical properties.





As for beryllium toxicity, it is toxic to process and postprocessing, probably when the driver is damaged and particles are released and inhaled.
Focal Utopia has a warning in the phamphlet with their headphones:
Focal.PNG



Thanks for all your great input.
Here’s another question to you experts, as I’m very excited about earbuds now:
Can the “BEST” earbud rival the best iems ?
In terms of pure technicalities and sound.

Kind of an apples to oranges comparison as most IEMs will not compete with earbuds in soundstage. Earbuds are closer to open backed headphones than IEMs actually.

IEMS generally have better isolation and hence subbass response, and they may also be more detailed as the transducer is closer to the ear.

FWIW, $5 - 10 can get u very good sound for earbuds, $50ish can get u midfi sound and $100 - 200 can get u TOTL sound for earbuds. IEMs on the other hand are more expensive relatively in the various budget/midfi/TOTL price brackets.


Yea, I think so. They're not bass oriented earbuds by any means. Chaconne's driver is very capable though so subbass region does take eq very well without distortion.

Sub-bass wise (without eq), from what I've tried the following buds have the best:
1) Smabat ST-10s Gold
2) FAAEAL Rosemary


How is the FAAEAL Rosemary? Heard it is a bass monster.
 
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Apr 21, 2021 at 1:47 AM Post #53,561 of 75,200
Actually other than some full beryllium types (eg for CHIFI IEMs it be expensive stuff like the DUNU LUNA and Final Audio A8000), I suspect a lot of cheaper sets that are beryllium plated and coated may be a marketing gimmick. For sure there are some beryllium sets that are properly implemented and the beryllium deposit really makes a difference to the sound, eg textured bass, takes EQ like a champ, those seem to be hallmarks of beryllium drivers. But I've heard some purported beryllium budget CHIFI IEMs that don't really sound different from a conventional driver type IEM.

The KBEAR BElieve is also purported to be a full beryllium single DD, but the jury is still out on whether that is true. I know BGGAR and some folks have opened the shell to show that the driver looks like beryllium, but nobody has a spectrometer or tools to really prove whether it is a full beryllium or some other metal or even the % purity.

The official DUNU folks here on headfi made some interesting comments about the lining/material of beryllium drivers: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-discovery-thread.586909/page-2968#post-15288735
"The PVD layer has to be thick enough and the microscopic grain pattern has to be regular enough to confer that pistonic motion beryllium is so famous for. That's why our sub-$100 products (DM-380 and DM-480) are still titanium drivers. Even the TITAN 6, at $139, is only coated on one side."

Personally I have a sneaky suspicion that at the budget CHIFI level, some of these novel material applications on drivers may be an element of marketing gimick, to stand out from the fierce competition at that price range. For all we know they are just sprinkling a few flakes of certain coatings on their drivers instead of uniformly applying it in the prescribed quantities to truly be effective.

Slater has a good post here about this issue: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1874#post-15293524 -> see the last paragraph, if the material is sprayed on improperly or not implemented well, the driver may actually sound worse.

So DUNU says they have difficulty implementing this Beryllium coating in their sub $100 USD gear. And we already see unit variation in macroscopic areas in these budget CHIFI in terms of sound and build, so forgive me for being skeptical that some CHIFI budget IEMs can ensure good QC for all their units when it comes to microscopic application of these novel materials in the proper layering. Possibly for expensive high end gear like DUNU LUNA or Focal Utopias, the beryllium may be properly coated and the sound is really unique cause of these properties.

All these special materials, be it beryllium, graphene or diamond or whatever, needs to be coated and implemented properly to truly make a difference. In fact if you coat it wrongly it may make the driver sound worse by affecting its physical properties.





As for beryllium toxicity, it is toxic to process and postprocessing, probably when the driver is damaged and particles are released and inhaled.
Focal Utopia has a warning in the phamphlet with their headphones:
Focal.PNG




Kind of an apples to oranges comparison as most IEMs will not compete with earbuds in soundstage. Earbuds are closer to open backed headphones than IEMs actually.

IEMS generally have better isolation and hence subbass response, and they may also be more detailed as the transducer is closer to the ear.

FWIW, $5 - 10 can get u very good sound for earbuds, $50ish can get u midfi sound and $100 - 200 can get u TOTL sound for earbuds. IEMs on the other hand are more expensive relatively in the various budget/midfi/TOTL price brackets.





How is the FAAEAL Rosemary? Heard it is a bass monster.
He who has no knowledge on beryllium, let him hear! :wink:

Thanks for that lengthy reply. For someone who hasn't studied the facts on beryllium, they will actually learn much from your information.:v:

Since I already studied and known these facts here in China for many years now, listening to beryllium drivers kind of grew on me. So, the only way to find out if the JCALLY EP09 has beryllium coating for such a low price is to listen to them closely upon receiving them. So, I'll let everyone know if it has that distinctive signature that only true coated, or full beryllium drivers deliver. If it sounds too suspicious in any way, I will let my techie friends here in China inspect them for me. So, no worries my friend!:thumbsup:

-Clear
 
Apr 21, 2021 at 6:12 AM Post #53,562 of 75,200
Apr 21, 2021 at 6:30 AM Post #53,563 of 75,200
How does the Hessian Ansata Pro compare to some of your other midfi and TOTL earbuds?
From memory like Yincrow RW-9 , those also had high frequencies suppressed
 
Apr 21, 2021 at 11:49 AM Post #53,564 of 75,200
Long time no see, been contempt with my tone king collection for a while but just noticed they released a green one, for which I can't pronounce the name so had to order it. And the tp16, which I realized was missing to my collection.

Can you people tell me if they toned down the outrageous trebles on the rw-1000 bass pro? The regular is by far my most resolving bud but damn it's fatiguing, and arguably very bass shy, so I'm interested in the bassy one if it comes with less treble.
 
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Apr 21, 2021 at 4:58 PM Post #53,565 of 75,200
Can you people tell me if they toned down the outrageous trebles on the rw-1000 bass pro? The regular is by far my most resolving bud but damn it's fatiguing, and arguably very bass shy, so I'm interested in the bassy one if it comes with less treble.
No, RW-1000 bass pro bright and tiring, there is not much bass either, but sound musically. In RW-2000 mid bass is fatter and there is a lot of it, but there is not enough sub bass. RW-2000 is more interesting than RW-1000/Bass Pro.
 

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