[mbwilson111]

Could I please get some ohmology lessons? Beyerdynamic sell some cans with different impedance. As a rule of thumb, the higher the impedance, the better the sound. But why?

All I know is that they need more power... not for use out of a phone, tablet, pc soundcard or weak dap. You need a DAP with decent power, a nice desktop dac/amp or a portable amp coupled with the phone etc.

I will say that the 600 sounds like a full headphone. I have not had much time with the 400 (the HungryPanda Goblin). Too many too quickly for me to keep up...

 

[Otto Motor]

Got it: high impedance earphones offer high signal to noise ratio.

 

[seanc6441]

Could I please get some ohmology lessons? Beyerdynamic sell some cans with different impedance. As a rule of thumb, the higher the impedance, the better the sound. But why?

Spoiler: Touch me!

TOUCH ME!

There's plenty of great sounding low impedance earbuds too, i think the driver design and matieral is more important.

From purely subjective experience I think higher impedance seem to be more neutral in general, but many of the better bass responses are seen on low impedance buds. Maybe it's coincidence?

If you own dedicated amps or powerful daps its nice to have the larger range of volume offered by high impedance buds without blowing your head off

 

[mbwilson111]

Got it: high impedance earphones offer high signal to noise ratio.

I don't know, someone else needs to jump in... I did read that there is less distortion.

 

[GREQ]

Could I please get some ohmology lessons? Beyerdynamic sell some cans with different impedance. As a rule of thumb, the higher the impedance, the better the sound. But why?

The primary function of a high impedance driver is increase the damping factor.
(If you like the science - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor)

TLDR - "the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and a particular amplifier describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system"
So basically the higher the resistance, the higher the damping factor, which in turn increases diaphragm control, which reduces unwanted resonances and vibrations.

 

[mbwilson111]

The primary function of a high impedance driver is increase the damping factor.
(If you like the science - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor)

TLDR - "the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and a particular amplifier describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system"
So basically the higher the resistance, the higher the damping factor, which in turn increases diaphragm control, which reduces unwanted resonances and vibrations.

If a person's gear is not up to driving them, they will not get any benefit from the high impedance bud or headphone. It won't sound its best. It is not just a matter of volume.

 

[DBaldock9]

The primary function of a high impedance driver is increase the damping factor.
(If you like the science - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor)

TLDR - "the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and a particular amplifier describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system"
So basically the higher the resistance, the higher the damping factor, which in turn increases diaphragm control, which reduces unwanted resonances and vibrations.

I did read the article, and the "Effect of cable resistance" section does say:
"... The higher the resistance of the speaker cables, the lower the damping factor. ..."

But, I didn't see anything in the "Effect of voice coil resistance" section, which indicated whether a high or low impedance driver should be chosen.

However, in this article [ https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/ ], there's a quote, from Gunter Weidemann (Beyerdynamic’s Senior Product Manager):
"The thinner wires have more windings (layers of wire) on the voice-coil than the lower-impedance Beyerdynamic headphones, which have thicker and heavier, easier-to-manufacture voice coils. The lower moving mass of the 250- and 600-ohm headphones’ voice coils is lighter than the 32-ohm models, and the lower mass is part of the reason high-impedance headphones sound better. The smaller diameter of the 600-ohm voice coil wires allows the wires to fit tighter, so there’s less air between the windings, and that makes the electromagnetic field of the voice coil stronger. All of that reduces distortion for the high-impedance versions compared with the low-impedance headphones."

 

[GREQ]

I did read the article, and the "Effect of cable resistance" section does say:
"... The higher the resistance of the speaker cables, the lower the damping factor. ..."

But, I didn't see anything in the "Effect of voice coil resistance" section, which indicated whether a high or low impedance driver should be chosen.

However, in this article [ https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/ ], there's a quote, from Gunter Weidemann (Beyerdynamic’s Senior Product Manager):
"The thinner wires have more windings (layers of wire) on the voice-coil than the lower-impedance Beyerdynamic headphones, which have thicker and heavier, easier-to-manufacture voice coils. The lower moving mass of the 250- and 600-ohm headphones’ voice coils is lighter than the 32-ohm models, and the lower mass is part of the reason high-impedance headphones sound better. The smaller diameter of the 600-ohm voice coil wires allows the wires to fit tighter, so there’s less air between the windings, and that makes the electromagnetic field of the voice coil stronger. All of that reduces distortion for the high-impedance versions compared with the low-impedance headphones."

Seems like an incomplete wiki article there.
Nice quote from Beyerdynamic. The last part is very important as higher damping factor should result in lower distortion.
I could be wrong, but I think that's the missing information we're looking for.

Sorry if this is going way off topic, I find this topic very interesting and also want to learn more about it.

 

[seanc6441]

Is there a certain point where the impedance increase has no effect on control?

For instance, is there a sweet spot? 300 ohm seems to be popular with sennheiser. But beyer has 600ohm models.

I guess many earbuds stick to 16-32ohm and IEMs 8-32ohms because the size makes it more difficult to wind these coils and because easier to drive gear is preferable for portable designs.

But then you see high end iem's thats 8ohm, or headphones like focal utopia at a modest 80ohm. So you have to wonder how much of an advantage is it really? As these kinds of gear uses the absolute highest grade of R+D yet they still choose not to go above 100ohm, they must be confident in their drivers having great control by other means?

Maybe you can produce high quality low ohm drivers/coils that's have good control, it just may be more expensive? It's definitely intriguing to read about, I'd need to learn more.

 

[DBaldock9]

Is there a certain point where the impedance increase has no effect on control?

For instance, is there a sweet spot? 300 ohm seems to be popular with sennheiser. But beyer has 600ohm models.

I guess many earbuds stick to 16-32ohm and IEMs 8-32ohms because the size makes it more difficult to wind these coils and because easier to drive gear is preferable for portable designs.

But then you see high end iem's thats 8ohm, or headphones like focal utopia at a modest 80ohm. So you have to wonder how much of an advantage is it really? As these kinds of gear uses the absolute highest grade of R+D yet they still choose not to go above 100ohm, they must be confident in their drivers having great control by other means?

Maybe you can produce high quality low ohm drivers/coils that's have good control, it just may be more expensive? It's definitely intriguing to read about, I'd need to learn more.

Well, it's current flowing "in" a magnetic field, which creates the force that controls the driver movement. If you have a high impedance, you need a higher amplifier voltage output, to get the same current flow, as a portable (low voltage) amplifier can deliver to a low impedance load.

Or, you can increase the magnetic field - meaning, build a more efficient driver, so it doesn't need as much power.

 

[waynes world]

Seems like an incomplete wiki article there.
Nice quote from Beyerdynamic. The last part is very important as higher damping factor should result in lower distortion.
I could be wrong, but I think that's the missing information we're looking for.

Sorry if this is going way off topic, I find this topic very interesting and also want to learn more about it.

I find it all very complicated. Hurts my brain. Not nearly as much fun as arguing!

 

[purplesun]

Are there any published impedance vs frequency graphs available for some of the earbud drivers?
I have always wondered if the china manufacturers' impedance claims are open-ended measurements; having read that some of the drivers doesn't require much amplifications.

 

[MisterMudd]

Just a side quip as I read in this thread a lot of people are tearing their foam ear bud covers trying to put them on. I have found that if I pre-stretch them they go on a whole lot easier. I can put a pair on earbuds in under 30 seconds. Just give them a little stretching workout before attempting. Just a thought....

 

[TheoS53]

There's plenty of great sounding low impedance earbuds too, i think the driver design and matieral is more important.

From purely subjective experience I think higher impedance seem to be more neutral in general, but many of the better bass responses are seen on low impedance buds. Maybe it's coincidence?

If you own dedicated amps or powerful daps its nice to have the larger range of volume offered by high impedance buds without blowing your head off

Are there any published impedance vs frequency graphs available for some of the earbud drivers?
I have always wondered if the china manufacturers' impedance claims are open-ended measurements; having read that some of the drivers doesn't require much amplifications.

There's absolutely no link between sound quality and driver impedance. If that were true, then surely the highest impedance headphone ever created would have the best sound quality ever measured, right? True, we do tend to see many high-end headphones using high impedance drivers, but that may just be as a side-effect to the design. It's always important tot remember that correlation is not the same thing as causation.

Regarding low impedance buds producing "better" bass, this is easily understood when we consider what it is that a driver is doing. All an audio file is is a set of instructions for a power amplifier as to how much power it should be outputting and when.
If we pull any track into an application such as Audacity, we will see somewhat of a waveform for each channel.
Those lines help us visualise the power that's being sent to the driver, and ultimately what the driver should be doing. All a driver does is move in and out (or forwards and backwards) as that's what causes air to move at particular frequencies, and then we perceive that as sound. When the line moves up the driver should be moving outwards, and when the line starts going down, that's the driver moving backwards.
So, the harder it is to move the driver, the harder the amplifier has to work to move the driver all the way out. As you may have noticed, easier to drive earphones can often produce better bass because the amplifier can easily deliver the power required to move the driver at the correct pace and to the correct extent. As it becomes harder to drive, the amp will start to struggle to keep up, and that's when we might hear some kind of distortion or just a lack in bass power.


Regarding the graphs for impedance and frequency, I don't have any for earbuds, but here are 3 measurements I've taken of the new Focal Stellia.
The yellow is with the amp at 0-ohms output impedance, green is at 10, and blue is at 120.
Not all drivers undergo a change in frequency response as the output impedance of an amp is increased, but many do. I suspect that this is why many people claim that headphones such as the HD600, 650, etc sound better on tube amplifiers because tube-based systems tend to have higher output-impedances. So the "improvements" they hear is most likely due to how that output impedance affects the frequency response of the driver, rather than the fact that it's a tube-based system.

 

[purplesun]

Regarding the graphs for impedance and frequency, I don't have any for earbuds, but here are 3 measurements I've taken of the new Focal Stellia.
The yellow is with the amp at 0-ohms output impedance, green is at 10, and blue is at 120.
Not all drivers undergo a change in frequency response as the output impedance of an amp is increased, but many do. I suspect that this is why many people claim that headphones such as the HD600, 650, etc sound better on tube amplifiers because tube-based systems tend to have higher output-impedances. So the "improvements" they hear is most likely due to how that output impedance affects the frequency response of the driver, rather than the fact that it's a tube-based system.

Thanks for the graph. Looks like quite well-behaved impedances for your measurements. With tinier winding loops on earbuds, it will probably be bumpier graphs.