[bhima]

Not unlike comparing the HD6XX/HD58X to say the HD800. Is the extra ~$600 justified? Up to the listener and how much you value the small details I guess.

Not saying this particular bud will live up to its TOTL price but in general the case is how much you value small improvements all round.

Hence why I'll probably be buying the new $400+ K's bud in 2 months

Ehh... most of these buds are using the same housings as much cheaper equivalents. I'm not saying they sound the same, but the difference in R&D for an HD6XX vs. an HD800 is likely quite a bit higher. I really enjoy earbuds now as well and have racked up quite a collection (with Willsounds PK16 on the way). But I would never drop more than $100 on a pair unless there was something under $200 that would actually sound better than my AKG 7XX in every way.

 

[bhima]

That's why I cull my earbud herd once in a while...

Danny, have you culled your Yincrow rw-777? I'm about ready to. After I get the Willsounds burn them in and do a big earbud show down I think the Yincrows are headed out the door. They sound amazing but they do not fit my ears at all regardless of the foams, donuts or double foams I use. They only sound great when I press the housing into my ears and keep my fingers there. Are you having any issues with fit on them?

 

[chinmie]

Thanks. That's the most inexpensive audiophile purchase I've ever made lol.

I'm glad you didn't make the wrong purchase, or that would be catastrophic

on the side note, i got a Samsara coming, because someone put out an auction and i happen to have funds from cancelling the TM9. by the way @doggiemom which samsara do you have? the black cable and the white cable? because if im not mistaken you have two of them. do they sound different at all?

 

[seanc6441]

Ehh... most of these buds are using the same housings as much cheaper equivalents. I'm not saying they sound the same, but the difference in R&D for an HD6XX vs. an HD800 is likely quite a bit higher. I really enjoy earbuds now as well and have racked up quite a collection (with Willsounds PK16 on the way). But I would never drop more than $100 on a pair unless there was something under $200 that would actually sound better than my AKG 7XX in every way.

Not disputing the 'cheap shells on premium earbuds is lame' argument which I completely agree with. But headphone makers do the same thing many times. Take for instance the HD58X and HD660, one is $150 the other $550 right? But both use identical housing and even the driver (albeit a good design). Or say the HD580-HD660 so many years and not any change of the design (because it works).

But the main question other than build quality is the sound, and yes I think TOTL earbuds are overpriced but it's a niche matket so they have to price them higher to compensate for the lower number of sales I'd imagine. Rest assured the SQ is still awesome on many TOTL buds, if you have not heard one I think you are im for a nice surprise coming from $20 earbuds!

If you wanna compare buds to the HD800 you have only to look at designs like Rose Mojito, New K's bud, moondrop liebesleid to see premium design in earbuds that you can tell how much effort was put into the design process. Without a huge team possibly or the backing of a big company.

 

[bhima]

This?

Looks like the same housing as the Graphenes. Wonder if its extremely similar in sound or if they do something to it to tune it differently (ie: different driver, etc.).

 

[waynes world]

on the side note, i got a Samsara coming, because someone put out an auction and i happen to have funds from cancelling the TM9.

Samsara, Svara L, what's the difference lol.

I'm sure you're tell me

 

[ClieOS]

Just contacted Hiegi and made a suggestion to them on making thin foam. Hopefully they will listen. I like the VE thin foam but there is never a bad thing for more places to buy them from.

 

[chinmie]

Samsara, Svara L, what's the difference lol.

I'm sure you're tell me

a, m, s, v and L apparently, that's about it

 

[seanc6441]

That timing @chinmie lol

 

[bhima]

Not disputing the 'cheap shells on premium earbuds is lame' argument which I completely agree with. But headphone makers do the same thing many times. Take for instance the HD58X and HD660, one is $150 the other $550 right? But both use identical housing and even the driver (albeit a good design). Or say the HD580-HD660 so many years and not any change of the design (because it works).

But the main question other than build quality is the sound, and yes I think TOTL earbuds are overpriced but it's a niche matket so they have to price them higher to compensate for the lower number of sales I'd imagine.

Rest assured the SQ is still awesome on many TOTL buds, if you have not heard one I think you are im for a nice surprise coming from $20 earbuds!

If you wanna compare buds to the HD800 you have only to look at designs like Rose Mojito, New K's bud, moondrop liebesleid to see premium design in earbuds.

Well, I mean, the first one is the Massdrop exclusive though . I agree that this hobby in general is overpriced and manufacturers are taking advantage of it, but the HD660, even if its the same housing likely has better pads which adds to the perception (even if ill conceived) of quality. Whereas, something like the Dragon's on Massdrop are the exact same PK shell that are in my $8 PK2's I have right now on my desk. Nothing about this exudes quality, especially from headphone that retails for over $300, and is on sale at massdrop for $200.

I'm sure there are great earbuds that can rival the sound of solid mid-fi headphones, but at those prices I'd like to see some new housing designs/better materials overall used is all. Heck, even the Datura-X got that part right (they look and feel awesome).

 

[seanc6441]

Well, I mean, the first one is the Massdrop exclusive though . I agree that this hobby in general is overpriced and manufacturers are taking advantage of it, but the HD660, even if its the same housing likely has better pads which adds to the perception (even if ill conceived) of quality. Whereas, something like the Dragon's on Massdrop are the exact same PK shell that are in my $8 PK2's I have right now on my desk. Nothing about this exudes quality, especially from headphone that retails for over $300, and is on sale at massdrop for $200.

I'm sure there are great earbuds that can rival the sound of solid mid-fi headphones, but at those prices I'd like to see some new housing designs/better materials overall used is all. Heck, even the Datura-X got that part right (they look and feel awesome).

But there is these housings. Just look at any of the metal shell buds for instance? You don't have to choose mx500 or pk shell TOTL buds if you are concerned about the build there's options.

Btw don't wanna go off topic for too long but the 58x and 660 share the same pads, housings and drivers. Infact apperantly if you removing the dampening foam behind the back grille of the 58X you get like 95% of exactly the 660 signature. It's essentially the same headphone with a cheap looking glossy paint job but $400 less. This is what a few reviewers have said anyway. Sennheiser confirmed the drivers are identical and we know the housing is too so only difference is the tuning matierial. I'd be mad if i bought a 660 right now...

 

[snip3r77]

my older brother also, like you, doesn't feel that thicker foams attenuate treble, and he likes to double foams a lot. me on the other hand do feel the difference. even same thickness foams with different fiber density would sound different. that's why i don't use random foams from random batches, for consistency sake.

just wondering there is how many type of foams ?
also usually which are the ones that everyone uses?

stock foam
very thin foam
VE type
Heigi
donut

 

[Danneq]

Ehh... most of these buds are using the same housings as much cheaper equivalents. I'm not saying they sound the same, but the difference in R&D for an HD6XX vs. an HD800 is likely quite a bit higher. I really enjoy earbuds now as well and have racked up quite a collection (with Willsounds PK16 on the way). But I would never drop more than $100 on a pair unless there was something under $200 that would actually sound better than my AKG 7XX in every way.

With some TOTL earbuds part of the cost is for the material, mainly cables, used. That was the case with Diomnes Lv2, which used drivers from the $5 VE Monk (first version) and expensive Cardas litz cables. Together with some tuning of the drivers they sound completely different from the Monk. So I think they were worth the price of around $180 excluding shipping if I look at how they sound.

Cypherus also uses expensive cable with the more expensive earbud models. I think the main part of the cost of the $600+ CAX Red Dragon is the cable (the lower part of the cable is thick like a small fire hose, not very good for portable use).

The tuning is also a part of the price. The only headphones I have now is Audio Technica ES10. It's far from the most high end earphones and they are for portable use, but still my best TOTL earbuds completely crush the ES10 in every area except for bass slam. And I paid around $300 for them.

When it comes to most smaller earbuds makers, and definitely to DIY maker in Indonesia etc, there is no way they can do any R&D on housings. They have to buy what's available and then they probably use the cheapest and most easily accessable housings and focus on cables and tuning.

It would be great if small earbud makers outside of China such as Cypherus, ABnormal & Blox could work together with Chinese earbud makers who design and make their own housings. Something like a Toneking housing with a Blox sound would be awsome.

Danny, have you culled your Yincrow rw-777? I'm about ready to. After I get the Willsounds burn them in and do a big earbud show down I think the Yincrows are headed out the door. They sound amazing but they do not fit my ears at all regardless of the foams, donuts or double foams I use. They only sound great when I press the housing into my ears and keep my fingers there. Are you having any issues with fit on them?

I have been thinking about it but decided to keep them for now. Fit is not a problem for me with the RW-777. Are they too small for your ears? The circumference is smaller than on MX500 housings and about the same as on Yuin housings but without stems.

 

[chinmie]

Well, I mean, the first one is the Massdrop exclusive though . I agree that this hobby in general is overpriced and manufacturers are taking advantage of it, but the HD660, even if its the same housing likely has better pads which adds to the perception (even if ill conceived) of quality. Whereas, something like the Dragon's on Massdrop are the exact same PK shell that are in my $8 PK2's I have right now on my desk. Nothing about this exudes quality, especially from headphone that retails for over $300, and is on sale at massdrop for $200.

I'm sure there are great earbuds that can rival the sound of solid mid-fi headphones, but at those prices I'd like to see some new housing designs/better materials overall used is all. Heck, even the Datura-X got that part right (they look and feel awesome).

although the TOTL buds use the same shell form, but when you handle them they still would be more polished than the sub $50 counterpart. and then there's the cable difference..really big difference there.

basically i agree with you that using customized shell and with different materials would be better, but saying the Shozy BK, SWD2+ aren't any better than their less expensive counterparts is not really a fair statement.

just wondering there is how many type of foams ?
also usually which are the ones that everyone uses?

stock foam
very thin foam
VE type
Heigi
donut

if i want to categorize, it's basically just two types: full foams and donuts. then we're talking about the thickness: thin and thick.

VE and hiegi is company brands. VE is well known for their thin foams, but also have really thick donuts in their expansion packs. Hiegi makes thick donuts and full foams

 

[RuFrost]

Thanks for the insight... I also have a Zishan z2 with Walnut F1 amp... would the Walnut F1 suffice?

Again, much appreciated!

no. It is low-fi, not even mid-fi as ak100ii-120ii. Probably, they would have enough power (though, questinable), but definitely not sound quality at all.