[Dubstep Girl]

3.0 for my next build in a year or 2 would be nice. i'm still with usb 2.0 

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

3.0 for my next build in a year or 2 would be nice. i'm still with usb 2.0 

Me too! - except for my external WD 2TB book for backup.  Most new PCs these days (not Macs yet) have USB 3.0 built in.

 

[TMRaven]

Macs have usb 3.0

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

Macs have usb 3.0

I stand corrected.  I thought they were only supporting Thunderbolt

 

[RUMAY408]

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After much experimentation I used the EMU 1616m - which used the amazing AKM 5394 ADC.  I did this 6 or 7 yrs ago - at the time pretty good stuff.  This unit was mediocre as a DAC but for Analog to Digital conversion it gave me the best results.  Plus it used a custom PICMA card PC interface that fed the external box - it handled up to 32/196k recording with ease.
 
From their website "Mastering grade 24-bit/192kHz converters - the same A/D converters used in Digidesign's flagship ProTools HD 192 I/O Interface delivering an amazing 120dB signal-to-noise ratio"
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct05/articles/emu1616m.htm

Thanks for the info, I found out the hard way that mastering high resolution digital off vinyl is not easy, very time consuming and labor intensive.  24/96 off an ADL-GT40 were better than MP3 but not at CD quality level.  I considered the Apogee but at this point I need to start with a better needle.

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

Thanks for the info, I found out the hard way that mastering high resolution digital off vinyl is not easy, very time consuming and labor intensive.  24/96 off an ADL-GT40 were better than MP3 but not at CD quality level.  I considered the Apogee but at this point I need to start with a better needle.

Yes the Dyanvector was ridiculously expensive - I'm using an Ortofon 2M Black now. Outstanding.  PM me if you have any other questions.

 

[RUMAY408]

Quote:

Yes the Dyanvector was ridiculously expensive - I'm using an Ortofon 2M Black now. Outstanding.  PM me if you have any other questions.

The Ortofon 2M Black is the direction I needed, thanks again.  Stock Ortofon just doesn't cut it.

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

Mmk. I'll have to look at that paper when I get back on my desktop computer with a proper PDF viewer. XD

For the record though, I've done ABX tests between 24/96 music and the same file downsampled to 16/44 and I can't hear a difference.

The system I had then - was ridiculous - oh those were the days!  Over $60K of equipment (not including the Analog rig).  The speakers alone were $28K - Talon Firebird Diamonds, coupled with twin Velodyne DD-15 sub woofers, driven by Response modded Hurricane mono block tube amps (200 watts of Class A power), Conrad Johnson ACT2 pre-amp.  All cabled with Synergistic Research Tesla Apex cabling.
http://www.rivesaudio.com/Speakers/reference/firebird.html
http://responseaudiony.com/hurricane%20extreme.htm
http://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/305cj
 
This system had incredible detail and transparency.
But it was too excessive.
I have downsized considerably since then.  It did give me a window into what amazing sound is like - and the differences in sampling rates
 
We live in wonderful audio days - the HD800s coupled with good cables, a good head amp and of course a great source are extraordinary.  You don't get the visceral chest vibrations (how long can one listen to that!), but the viewpoint of great transparency and detail - coupled with natural tonal richness - very pleasing! 
 
(Speaking of visceral chest vibrations - when I go to a concert today - it's a day or two to recover.  My body and ears are kinda numb for a while.)
 
Not to mention, the ability to move your head and not effect the imaging.  This used to really annoy me - the sound stage was stable with my speakers only with my head straight forward!
My HD800s are 1/20th the price of my Firebirds and sound equally good.
 
And I'm not done yet - I still have the Stephan Audio Art Endorphin and Cardas Clear cables to try on the HD800s.  And maybe a Woo WA-5 or Manley 300b pre, or a Cavalli Liquid Fire )
 
I hope one day that Senn comes out with a new SOTA headphone, based on the HD800 design principles, but just taken to the next level.

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

The Ortofon 2M Black is the direction I needed, thanks again.  Stock Ortofon just doesn't cut it.

Agreed!  Just becareful of which tonearm you use.  The 2M Black likes an ultra light tone arm

 

[Quartz67]

Will the new Philips Fidelio S2 make this list?

 

[davidsh]

http://seanolive.blogspot.dk/2011/03/harman-how-to-listen-listener-training.html#comment-form
 
Found the above. Quite interesting. I feel like a complete noob-audiophile when doing the band id training. Someone please try it, it's actually a cool program

 

[DavidMahler]

I fell behind this weekend, so if I missed a direct question to me, please feel free to email me.  I am trying to be light on the hands (as I recuperate from an injury) so I haven't addressed everything.....
 
My tinnitus still persists slightly, but has gotten much better and I have the reassurance that my hearing remains completely intact (better than 95% of 30 year olds according to one audiologist I visited)
 
Quote:

Thank you David for your views on my comments.
It's looking to me like I need to seriously look into better amplification before making my decision.
 
Sorry about your tinnitus.I've been dealing with it for the last 15 years and it's not pleasant.

Thank you 15 years is quite a long time, I'm sorry to hear that!
Quote:

I would say unless it gets better soon I would think tertiary clinic time. On the East Coast:  Mayos either in Jacksonville, FL or Rochester, MN or Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, OH.
 
Thanks for the reply and I hope you feel better soon.

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Great guide, I really enjoyed reading all your impressions! Any amp recommendations for HE-500? 

I think the EF-6 pairs well, but its expensive, but I've spent a bit of time using it and have been very impressed with the results. 
 
Quote:

It's almost two times more expensive... I hope its not all marketing

It's definitely not.  But I do think a lot of the testing that's been done was using an amp more suited to the HE-500. I don't want to pinpoint, but this is my belief based on what I've seen.
Quote:

You just reminded of a good few years back at home when my mom was walking across the kitchen. She had a pan full of hot oil that she was about to spill into the bin. My brother and i were playing on the couch across from the cooker. I was tickling him (he was about 7 at the time). He ran to to the other side of the kitchen to get away from me but on his way there he ran into my mom with the pan. The pan hit the side of his head and some of the oil went down his ear canal. What followed was some of the most horrific screaming that i have ever heard. 
 
After several visits to the doctor it was explained to him that he would permanently loose over 40% of the hearing in his right ear. As a result of loosing hearing in one ear he always listens to music way too loud which has done even more damage to his hearing. I try telling him to turn the music down but he just won't listen. 

I read this when it was posted, but I waited to respond.  That is a tragedy.  I think about split second tragedies all the time...especially when driving.  But that's just so unexpected.  The  thing is, eventually a person's resilience can get them through.  I hope this for your brother.
Quote:

DavidMahler: Great to hear you're back listening again, I can't wait for your review of the HE-60s
 
Best wishes in beating the tinnitus.

Thank you  And its a-comin.  I really like them.  
Quote:

I have scanned through the first 100 pages of this thread and have not come across any mention of HD800 cabling.
 
I've owned my HD800s for many years now, paired with many headphone amps, and have found upgrading from the stock cable helped 'cure' the HD800's faults.
 
Right now I have the Moon Black Dragon V2 and the edginess of tremble is completely gone!  The tone has been enhanced with added richness.  The bass has become tighter and  more extended.  I hear no downsides from these cables.
 
I had the infamous Rick Warren cable for many yrs and really liked it, until the connector failed.  I put the stock cable back on - what a disappointment - the sound became thinner and edgier.  The detail decreased.
 
The cost of a HD800/Moon Blk Dragon is still less then the LCD3.
 
When speaking about $12,000 headphones - the cost of a couple of hundred dollars for a really good cable is peanuts.
When the HD800, LCD3, and HE6 first came out there were just a few cabling choices, now there are many  excellent choices.
 
My suggestion is:
 
How about a review of the HD800, LCD3, HE6 (each has user removable cables) - each with the three or four best after market cables.  The Can/Cable pairing that sounds best is then reviewed against the 58.   Some would argue this is a modification - I'd say it isn't since you can always go back to the stock cable - easily and quickly.
 
My HD800s with the Moon cable are vastly better then stock.
 
My suggestions for HD800 cables: Moon Black Dragon V2, Stephan Audio Arts Endorphin, and ALO Ref and the new Cardas Clear (not the original Cardas).
 
This would go along way in helping folks decide which HP to buy, they can factor in the price and sound characteristics of the best Can/Cable value.  It would also help those who currently own these respective headphones to expand their listening experience.
 
Sorry If this was brought up previously on this thread as I have not had a chance to go through all 272 pages. 

If David has any opinion on the cable matter he can chime in, else I suggest we leave that topic?
 

Theres been some talk of recabling, but as you can see its a heated issue - in the spirit of FLAC vs WAV.  This is my belief... some headphones do benefit from a recabling, while others there is no perceptible difference to me no matter what you throw at it. Other modifications have more drastic of an impact than a recabling ever could - such as a change in the earpads material and shape. 
 
There are instances where I've recabled a headphone only to be unsure that there was any sonic change, but then there were instances where the differences were undeniable.  The HD800 was definitely one where the change was undeniable, but in this, the  change was from unbalanced to balanced.
 
 
Quote:

Actually, I have somewhat the same problem as David regarding tinnitus. Don't know why or how, but I do know, that I listen a bit loud. Probably around 75-85dB on average.
 
I hear a very high-pitched noise, I would say it is around some 18 kHz. I hear it quite on-off it differs a lot, but often I hear it in environments that aren't noisy, say with ambient noise below some 50-60dB, but it is worse in silence.
I don't suffer from hyperacusis in the sense that noise is painful, but my ears tend to distort slightly (can't find a proper word in English) from loud voices and especially noise at around 2-4 kHz. It is not nice, and doesn't feel right, but it isn't painful.
 
EDIT: What is the mechanism that protects us from loud sound by tensing the ear drum called?
EDIT 2: Found out it is the tensor tympani muscle.

I'm sorry that you have this too.  Part of me believes I've always had it to some degree.  My father recalls when I was about 4 sitting with me and I asked him "what's that sound?" and it happened to be that there was no sound but I was probably experiencing some tinnitus at the time.  I've done so much reading (not on the internet - don't do that to yourself if you have tinnitus haha).... and I've found that everybody without exception when put into an environment quiet enough will experience some degree of tinnitus.  Some of the sound may in fact be real (known as objective tinnitus), but in fact, it is believed that every person experiences some degree of subjective tinnitus even if they are unaware.  My findings led me to believe that the fireworks exploding next to my ear made me become hyper-aware of potential damage to my hearing, and in the process, my tinnitus was "boosted".  When I use very well-fitted in-ears, I can really hear the tinnitus, otherwise, its not much of problem for me right now.  Even with the in-ears, I've gotten used to it.  The key to my success so far has simply been to be accepting of it and know in some capacity, its been there since I was young.  Tinnitus is very brain-related.  The more you read about it, and the more your ears matter to you, the more you will probably experience it haha.  But that said, I'm still hopeful it will get better.
Quote:

Thanks David for your consideration - did not mean to stir up a hornet's nest on the cabling issue.  Why this seems to drive folks nuts - after my decades of audio experience has proved to me their value - is puzzling.  I know Engineers are especially skeptical, I don't need charts and graphs - my ears are my true test.  But such as it is. 
 
I completely understand if you wish to avoid this issue.
 
As always your thoughts and experience are highly valued!

Thanks, its not a hornet's nest It's interesting though.  I've seen posts elsewhere that feel my willingness to include any cable upgrades at all is an admission that I obviously "believe hype" because cables don't do anything.... etc.  And then there are others on the opposite side who feel that I would like Headphone X 10 times more with a simple cable upgrade.  But either way, I'm convinced sometimes its worth upgrading something just to do it if you really love the headphone - so what if you're unsure of the benefit.  If you're skeptical (as you probably should be) don't waste the money.  But it's something a person must try for themselves and it's never a night a day difference no matter what anyone tells you - at least not in my experience.  You cannot take a mediocre headphone and make it pleasant.  I know I'm using some fighting words here, and it is not my intent to offend or start/add debate.  I admit that a headphone can absolutely be improved with a cable upgrade (not always), but I do not think it can improve a headphone more than a marginal percentage.
 
Quote:

Nope....
V0 LAME MP3 is indistinguishable from CD-quality lossless from ABX tests. I'm in the process of re-tagging my music properly and I'm going to switch to the technically superior AAC format even though I can't hear a difference.

I've got to admire David's huuuuuuuuuge music collection and I can't even imagine how long it took him to properly tag his music. This is taking forever. T-T

24/96 and above is typically used in the mastering process such that the mastering engineer has some wiggle room to do their thing, not necessarily for better sound quality.

It still boggles my mind when people put lossless music, or even HD music for that matter, on their portable media players. *scratches head*

It doesn't boggle my mind because I've done it...and I did it for the extra sense of security.  But I found the DACs in portable players to not be truly revealing enough to blatantly showcase the differences between high quality lossy and lossless.  I store my music on my iPod as MP3 LAME V2 and it is good enough that at most times I am not disturbed by any apparent artifacts.
 
Also, I gave up on tagging my music collection as life got busier, oh well....CDs will be fine for me though

 

[rb2013]

Quote:

Thanks, its not a hornet's nest It's interesting though.  I've seen posts elsewhere that feel my willingness to include any cable upgrades at all is an admission that I obviously "believe hype" because cables don't do anything.... etc.  And then there are others on the opposite side who feel that I would like Headphone X 10 times more with a simple cable upgrade.  But either way, I'm convinced sometimes its worth upgrading something just to do it if you really love the headphone - so what if you're unsure of the benefit.  If you're skeptical (as you probably should be) don't waste the money.  But it's something a person must try for themselves and it's never a night a day difference no matter what anyone tells you - at least not in my experience.  You cannot take a mediocre headphone and make it pleasant.  I know I'm using some fighting words here, and it is not my intent to offend or start/add debate.  I admit that a headphone can absolutely be improved with a cable upgrade (not always), but I do not think it can improve a headphone more than a marginal percentage.
 

David - thanks for your thoughts on the matter.  I completely agree with the idea - great cables will not transform a mediocre headphone.  But my experience with the HD800, is that it's one nagging downside (edgy, thin, tremble rich and sometimes sibilant sound) has been much improved by the change of cable.  I also noticed an improvement in the bass extension as well.   This 'fault' as mentioned in numerous posts by folks seems to be widespread.  One cure - a great 300b amp - that seems to have worked for you (you did move the HD800 up in ranking from your previous review).  That's probably the best route.   A cheaper alternative could be a cable change.  That's worked for me.
 
From my decades long experience with 2 channel speaker driven systems - cables can make a very significant improvement in sound.  I won't bore you with the details - but just say the cables hanging off the back of my tube integrated now cost 4x as much as the amp.  This is not because I like expensive cables - they tend to be thick and a real pain to work with - it's just that they make incredible sound.  Every time I take them out - I regret it.  That's to my ears at least.
 
I have had the HD800s for years and tried it with maybe 6 or so headamps.  But certainly not the range and caliber of your collection.  At least with the Woo and Lyr - the difference I have experienced with the Moon Black Dragon and stock is not insignificant.  I don't know if I would even own the HD800s if the stock cable sound was it.  But that's just me.
 
You did mention the improvement in sound quality with the ALO balanced cable in your review.  The reason for my speculation on this thread.
 
Stay healthy!

 

[davidsh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidsh 

Actually, I have somewhat the same problem as David regarding tinnitus. Don't know why or how, but I do know, that I listen a bit loud. Probably around 75-85dB on average.
 
I hear a very high-pitched noise, I would say it is around some 18 kHz. I hear it quite on-off it differs a lot, but often I hear it in environments that aren't noisy, say with ambient noise below some 50-60dB, but it is worse in silence.
I don't suffer from hyperacusis in the sense that noise is painful, but my ears tend to distort slightly (can't find a proper word in English) from loud voices and especially noise at around 2-4 kHz. It is not nice, and doesn't feel right, but it isn't painful.
 
EDIT: What is the mechanism that protects us from loud sound by tensing the ear drum called?
EDIT 2: Found out it is the tensor tympani muscle.

I'm sorry that you have this too.  Part of me believes I've always had it to some degree.  My father recalls when I was about 4 sitting with me and I asked him "what's that sound?" and it happened to be that there was no sound but I was probably experiencing some tinnitus at the time.  I've done so much reading (not on the internet - don't do that to yourself if you have tinnitus haha).... and I've found that everybody without exception when put into an environment quiet enough will experience some degree of tinnitus.  Some of the sound may in fact be real (known as objective tinnitus), but in fact, it is believed that every person experiences some degree of subjective tinnitus even if they are unaware.  My findings led me to believe that the fireworks exploding next to my ear made me become hyper-aware of potential damage to my hearing, and in the process, my tinnitus was "boosted".  When I use very well-fitted in-ears, I can really hear the tinnitus, otherwise, its not much of problem for me right now.  Even with the in-ears, I've gotten used to it.  The key to my success so far has simply been to be accepting of it and know in some capacity, its been there since I was young.  Tinnitus is very brain-related.  The more you read about it, and the more your ears matter to you, the more you will probably experience it haha.  But that said, I'm still hopeful it will get better.

Again my story match yours to some degree. I am positive I've had the tinnitus sound for years (perhaps almost always), becoming more and more aware of it, especially since I have started caring more for my hearing. Since I started my journey into head-fi I have been passively concerned with how loud I listen. I might think that is what has triggered my 'tinnitus' in the same way as the exploding fireworks might have triggered yours, asuming it is mainly psychologically.
As of now, I believe I am a fairly loud listener in the range of 75-85 dB, but it is only speculations. I do know I listen at a generally slightly lower volume than Jerg, though

 
Right now I hear a faint high pitched noise, that doesn't annoy me. The background noise in my room is probs about 50dB due to my noisy pc.

 

[kothganesh]

I stand corrected.  I thought they were only supporting Thunderbolt

Thought so myself but the new MBA's have the 3.0. Should get one in the next few days with the larger SSD and yes, more music