[dougms3]

What headphones do you think have "audiophile reference bass"? Most "reference" headphones I've listened to sound absolutely nothing like an actual studio and tend to color the sound in an unnatural way. You sound like you're exaggerating or maybe you just have special ears.

As i said, I dont know what "audiophile reference" bass is. Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide an fr graph of what that is.

Why don't you ask your buddy, the college aged apple mega fan boy and possibly paid "influencer" pushing this vzr one headphone which sounds like hot garbage. Don't take my word for it, go buy it and find out for yourself.

With your extensive experience of headphones, which audiophile headphones would you say the vzr one is better than?

I'm obviously not as smart or as experienced as you are with my inferior 30-40 headphones lifetime experience.

 

[Mhog55]

You're more or less at the wall in terms of bass with stock headphones, I feel like if you want a stock tuning that is even more bass heavy you'd actually want to spend probably less than $300 and be in the territory of headphones that are not necessarily trying to be anything other than bass cannons.

Most of the headphones that anyone would recommend at this point are recommendations because they have a decent stock tuning and can take the EQ well. I listened to the anniversary tuning of the TH900 so they are slightly different that the originals, but I would not even consider them bass heavy without applying more than +10DB to the lower frequencies.

You could consider something from Kennerton as I feel they may have the best or at the very least one of the better understandings of bass in the industry, the open-back Vali or the closed-back Gjallarhorn both are on the same driver and Vali has more mid-bass emphasis I feel while the Gjallarhorn is more sub-bass focused but I say that without having listened to the Gjallarhorn so folks should correct me. They have other options such as Magni and Rognir that are also solid with bass.

The Gjallarhorn doesn't have as much bass quantity as the Cascades. She might want to look at something from Skull Candy if giant bass with no real sense of high quality audio.

 

[PrincessLeliana]

The Gjallarhorn doesn't have as much bass quantity as the Cascades. She might want to look at something from Skull Candy if giant bass with no real sense of high quality audio.

The original mission was lots of bass *while still having everything else be clear and high quality*, I do not want skull candy that has so much bass but literally nothing else to back it up.

 

[Mhog55]

The original mission was lots of bass *while still having everything else be clear and high quality*, I do not want skull candy that has so much bass but literally nothing else to back it up.

With hi res audiophile type headphones, you aren't going to find much that has extreme bass that you seem to be after. Rather the opposite, either a balanced sound, or more emphasis in the upper registers. Most of the big bass headphones will have a V shaped tuning, meaning the mids will be somewhat recessed.

 

[waveSounds]

If you want moar bass and already have hi end, bass oriented cans, the next step is probably to buy a Schiit Loki and crank the bass frequency knob.

 

[561915]

Can't speak for anyone else, but all I care about regarding the graphene coated drivers is that they sound great. Kennerton has the most dynamic, quickest transient response I've heard from a headphone. I'm not even sure what we're talking about in this thread - hardest hitting? Are we talking about sub bass, mid bass, or what?
As for Princess, are you after an open or closed back? If you want slam, kick, punch, whatever, I'd look into dynamic drivers from Focal and Kennerton. Perhaps the Radiance, or something from Denon or Fostex.

I have listened to the Radiance with a few songs, and I think it has a very, very solid amount of bass, clean bass too for the most part if a bit warm for some. Transient response is typical Focal fast, although there are faster headphones that exist. Slightly congested soundstage and typical Focal metallic timbre, although less obvious than some of the others in Focal's lineup. The Radiance is actually my favorite of all the Focal headphones I've listened to (Clear Mg, Utopia 2022, Celestee).

As i said, I dont know what "audiophile reference" bass is. Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide an fr graph of what that is.

Why don't you ask your buddy, the college aged apple mega fan boy and possibly paid "influencer" pushing this vzr one headphone which sounds like hot garbage. Don't take my word for it, go buy it and find out for yourself.

With your extensive experience of headphones, which audiophile headphones would you say the vzr one is better than?

I'm obviously not as smart or as experienced as you are with my inferior 30-40 headphones lifetime experience.

First off, I am not associated with @AlwaysForward , I don't know him personally at all. I think he's a bit overenthusiastic about how well the M1 will resonate in this thread for what is trying to be accomplished here, but to say they are "hot garbage" is either exaggeration or pot-stirring. Mentioning age isn't a good look either, younger people tend to have better ears. The bass on the M1 loosens depending on what you plug them into, but that's with every headphone that goes into a worse source. Out of the headphones in your signature that I have listened to, I think the M1 sounds better than the HE-R9 and the M40x. I would say that the M1 projects sounds further outwards than the HD800S depending on the track, transient response wise it's still slightly slower though. The M1 is miles better than the DT990 I used for 2 years. I think it's about 20% better than the stock T50RP I owned for about a month. I haven't listened to the other headphones in your signature, but have always wanted to listen to the Denon D7200. I can somewhat agree with your perception that the mids in the M1 are recessed, but that is a product of what these headphones were designed for. For gaming, that tuning choice adds immersion and spaciousness. I primarily use them as a gaming can because the audio directionality is pretty much the best I have heard in a headphone. On the topic of "audiophile reference bass", I never came up with the term so I'm not going to try to define it. I just think that most "audiophile" brands (Sennheiser, Focal, Beyerdynamic, etc.) tend to tune headphones too aggressively so they become fatiguing over extended listening periods and may increase your risk for hearing damage.

 

[dougms3]

I have listened to the Radiance with a few songs, and I think it has a very, very solid amount of bass, clean bass too for the most part if a bit warm for some. Transient response is typical Focal fast, although there are faster headphones that exist. Slightly congested soundstage and typical Focal metallic timbre, although less obvious than some of the others in Focal's lineup. The Radiance is actually my favorite of all the Focal headphones I've listened to (Clear Mg, Utopia 2022, Celestee).


First off, I am not associated with @AlwaysForward , I don't know him personally at all. I think he's a bit overenthusiastic about how well the M1 will resonate in this thread for what is trying to be accomplished here, but to say they are "hot garbage" is either exaggeration or pot-stirring. Mentioning age isn't a good look either, younger people tend to have better ears. The bass on the M1 loosens depending on what you plug them into, but that's with every headphone that goes into a worse source. Out of the headphones in your signature that I have listened to, I think the M1 sounds better than the HE-R9 and the M40x. I would say that the M1 projects sounds further outwards than the HD800S depending on the track, transient response wise it's still slightly slower though. The M1 is miles better than the DT990 I used for 2 years. I think it's about 20% better than the stock T50RP I owned for about a month. I haven't listened to the other headphones in your signature, but have always wanted to listen to the Denon D7200. I can somewhat agree with your perception that the mids in the M1 are recessed, but that is a product of what these headphones were designed for. For gaming, that tuning choice adds immersion and spaciousness. I primarily use them as a gaming can because the audio directionality is pretty much the best I have heard in a headphone. On the topic of "audiophile reference bass", I never came up with the term so I'm not going to try to define it. I just think that most "audiophile" brands (Sennheiser, Focal, Beyerdynamic, etc.) tend to tune headphones too aggressively so they become fatiguing over extended listening periods and may increase your risk for hearing damage.

I think its amusing that when he exaggerates to a ridiculously level, he's "overenthusiastic" but when I describe something its exaggerating.

I mention his age because he keeps bragging about his JL subwoofers and stating that the VZR one can produce bass on that level. College age + JL subs = ?

If you're trying to say definitively that younger people have better hearing, no thats not accurate. Younger people are exposed to less damaging sounds because they haven't lived as long and experienced as much but this is not always a given and certainly not a fact. Even if all things being equal, only further into the higher frequencies above 13k is where the hearing loss tends to occur. Then you also have to factor in experience and how well their ears are trained. A question for you, how old is the man that tuned these headphones?

If you only describe something as better or % better, it doesn't really help anyone understand anything about the sound of the headphone. If you don't know what "audiophile reference bass" is then why would you use it to describe what the VZR one has?

Anyway, if you hear any audiophile level headphone and listen to the VZR one, its hot garbage. The bass is a muddy, boomy hot mess. The mids are scooped out in such an unusual way in an attempt to mimic spaciousness and soundstage but its extremely poorly executed. The treble is grainy and doesn't extend well at all, not that it matters because it has very poor resolution.

I had the T50rp for many years and modded it, I would not agree that the VZR one is "better". Its not comparable to any audiophile level headphone and the fact that its priced at $300 is hilarious.

If anyone wants to buy it and listen for themselves, they should just for a good laugh. It is the worst headphone I've ever heard. That is my opinion and it is not an exaggeration.

 

[skeletor_bass]

The problem with @AlwaysForward's approach is that it is overenthusiastic, hence the doubt increases.
It is fine to be over the roof with your new purchase, but you gotta be realistic.
And it is always better to be warned by someone (@dougms3), even if he is exaggerating, cause many hypes are just not real.
Also, the consesus here was to move the paper with headphones, so...

 

[OldDude04]

^^ or it didn't happen.

 

[PrincessLeliana]

With hi res audiophile type headphones, you aren't going to find much that has extreme bass that you seem to be after. Rather the opposite, either a balanced sound, or more emphasis in the upper registers. Most of the big bass headphones will have a V shaped tuning, meaning the mids will be somewhat recessed.

If you want moar bass and already have hi end, bass oriented cans, the next step is probably to buy a Schiit Loki and crank the bass frequency knob.

Thats entirely fair, I may consider adding that to my setup though Im not sure where since ive got an amp/dac combo unit.


In other news, the Klipsch hp3 have arrived and I absolutely adore them.

 

[561915]

I take it back

 

[mirenjobra]

Would anyone be able to recommend a less expensive pair of headphones with good bass as a temporary pair before I go for the Denon 7200s? Something like the lineup from Beyerdynamic?

I'd mostly use them for rap music, trance, and playing pc games.

 

[bust3r]

You want more bass than stock Campfire Cascades, yet you do not want to EQ? This does not make sense.
If you want the brutal amount of bass (which is what you want, based on your replies), you need EQ + power.
I am not saying you go crazy with EQ, but bumps in bass region are must or just lower the rest of spectrum to your liking and apply power.

That's what I had to do to get more boom, add power, + EQ. Lots of it. Its not easy to get loud, strong impactful, sub bass without it. Going fully balanced helps a ton as well, if thats possible.
I went thru 3 desktop amps (atom, schiit, head-fi) before coming to the conclusion (albiet a bit late) that the headphones that I have weren't going to bring the bass I wanted if I didn't improve my gear. The gear in my sig is now main gear and likely will not be replaced with anything else, with sound and bass response that definitely suits my basshead needs.

 

[bust3r]

^^ or it didn't happen.

I need to try that with my gear, and that world mousepad is sweet!

 

[dougms3]

Synonyms.

Where you are getting he's college-aged I'm still not entirely sure. Generally, a subwoofer is able to produce more bass SPL than a pair of headphones. If you set the sub gain low enough I can see how headphones could replicate a subwoofer in that sense.

That's why I said "tend" to have better hearing. Implying statistical averages. Statistically, on average, younger people are able to hear higher pitched sounds. Why is this even a debate on a headphone forum? I have no idea how old the founders of the company are, but its kind of a moot point since professionals use microphones and a consistent test rig for tuning headphones, your ears are just to hear if you like them or not. They aren't young, they've had a long history in hi-fi audio. From how you describe how hearing loss works and how you describe the sound of the M1, wouldn't you expect an older person to tune headphones with extra treble to compensate for their hearing loss? Your attempted age-tuning correlation doesn't even make sense.

Once again, I never used this term to describe the M1. If you want more descriptive opinions of how I feel about the T50RP, I think it has a messy soundstage and sounds slightly distorted at higher volumes. The stock pads absolutely suck and I was only "happy" with them after pad-rolling. I ended up returning them because they rattled with sub-bass and are not comfortable.

I've listened to a LOT of audiophile level headphones, more than I can even really remember. Notable headphones I've listened to include the Audeze LCD-X w/o EQ, MM-500, LCD-5, LCD-2, CRBN; Focal I've already gone over; ZMF assorted cans; Sennheiser HD 560S, 650, 800S; Hifiman HE-R9, Ananda, Susvara, Arya Stealth, Sundara Closed, Edition XS; Dan Clark Aeon 2, Expanse, Stealth; Meze Empyrean Elite, 109 Pro; Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro, DT 990 Pro, DT 770 Pro w/ lots of Dekoni pads; Dekoni T50RP Mod; Warwick Acoustics Aperio Black, among others that weren't particularly memorable. I liked some of the above headphones as much or more than the VZR Model One. I still really like the VZR Model Ones for what they're made for, I don't know what else to tell you.

Yes, I agree with you. That's why I specifically said multiple times that they probably will not fit in this thread that well, although they can hit fairly hard in sub-bass with generous EQ and power applied. They're just simply not your typical basshead headphones. Whenever I want to do basshead things I use Shuoer S12 balanced with SpinFit eartips and an EQ profile applied in my Qudelix. I wish I could have that kind of in-ear bass pressure out of headphones just for the occasional basshead stupidity. I am still looking for a pair of headphones that can hit like my IEMs after EQ, and have almost decided to just get speakers because I'm not sure if headphones will provide what I'm looking for. I know speakers can provide what I'm looking for.

Not synonyms, thats called a biased double standard.

He said he was a college student. There are no headphones can produce the bass of a sub like a JL, or even come close, period.

Congratulations on your list, I have also been to canjam check out the shiny emblem under my name. I have heard 90% of the headphoens you listed there as well. I also brought my own headphones to use a baseline and comparison since I know what they sound like on my home and portable systems. WHen you listen to that many headphones all at once, its difficult to isolate specifics or details without a reference to compare to. If you A/B test an 800s vs the VZR one and think they're anywhere in the same league, this may not be the hobby for you. Save your money for pokemons or whatever kids spend money on these days.

I'm not going to waste time arguing with you. The VZR one (or as I like to call it, Beats Studio 4) is hot garbage, insulting my age or ability to hear or making excuses for the headphone is not going to change my opinion.