[droenald]

Hey, I've lurked around here for a while, but only just now set up an account. As information on flathead earbuds is not as easy to come by as info on IEMs, I was hoping to ask a few questions here since it seems like people here would be the ones to know this stuff.

1. I noticed a company/person called Fengru making copies of (presumably) discontinued Qigom products, namely the white lotus and black lotus. Are these as good as the originals? If so, are they still worth getting compared to modern competition?

2. Is there a significant difference in sound between the different price brackets? Like, if you blind tested a good $20, $40, $60, and $80 set could you easily tell the difference between them?

3. Are the big name products like the Fiio FF3 or the Dunu Alpha 3 worth the price, or would I be better off ordering from someone like Rikubuds?

Sorry if this is annoying or a bit to much, but like I said, this info is not as easy to find as people talking about IEMs or headphones. Any insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Hi,
I have no idea concerning your first question, but my dive into the flathead adventure might give you clues for your other questions. I first bought the yincrow calf, as I did not want to start supercheap, it cost me 65€. I did not get a decent fit at first and also was not too happy with the sound, so decided to order some cheap mx500 earbuds to check the fit for me, and also to have some reference, if I wanted to order from Riku or some other maker, as I know that Riku owns those cheap ones. I ordered a red vido, a green vido (they are tuned differently) and the faaeal iris 2. Additionally Silicone rings to improve the fit, as I have big ears.
The vido is 2,50€, The Faaeal 5,50€.
What can I say, I am shocked at how good all of these sound! The green Vido beeing the most natural sounding, the red Vido is slightly brighter with more ear gain, less bass, but boy the bass on this one has amazing slam, so you don't really notice the lesser quantity. The Iris has big bass and is quite warm sounding (some bleed into the midrange), but is totally smooth otherwise with really nice timbre.
Without eq the green Vido has the best sound out of the 3 for me, with eq the picture changes, as the driver in the Iris seems quite capable. I am totally mindblown by the sound I get from the Iris that way.
The Yincrow Calf goes back in the drawer. For me tonally it just cannot touch any of those three cheapo buds!
I guess I am saying that in the earbud realm diminishing returns seem to set in very quickly. My advice is to get some cheap earbud, that is well known in this community, like for instance the yincrow x6. Then talk to one of the independant makers and tell them what you like and dislike about it. That way they can offer you the right bud for you.
Don't make the error I made and waste money on an "good" earbud you might not like all that much. Put that money towards a bud that you will really enjoy!

 

[fooltoque]

The wick is like a last resort as you will more likely damage the mmcx connector by the excessive heat

Is this a thing? The first connector I successfully wired up I had spent a LOT of time failing on, and I heated it up real good trying to wick out excess solder. After the leads were on, I checked with my multimeter and there was no electrical connection between the two ends of the leads, and the connector did not seem visually damaged, so I assumed it was okay. I planned to treat that one as a success and wire it up to the driver once I get a second shell in from Aliexpress in 2 weeks, but maybe I should just start from scratch.

 

[hiheaded]

Hey, I've lurked around here for a while, but only just now set up an account. As information on flathead earbuds is not as easy to come by as info on IEMs, I was hoping to ask a few questions here since it seems like people here would be the ones to know this stuff.

1. I noticed a company/person called Fengru making copies of (presumably) discontinued Qigom products, namely the white lotus and black lotus. Are these as good as the originals? If so, are they still worth getting compared to modern competition?

2. Is there a significant difference in sound between the different price brackets? Like, if you blind tested a good $20, $40, $60, and $80 set could you easily tell the difference between them?

3. Are the big name products like the Fiio FF3 or the Dunu Alpha 3 worth the price, or would I be better off ordering from someone like Rikubuds?

Sorry if this is annoying or a bit to much, but like I said, this info is not as easy to find as people talking about IEMs or headphones. Any insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

2. Usually the sound does clear up with more expensive buds. And the capabilities increase. Those cheap buds dont hold up well the more you crank the volume. But for casual listening that may not matter too much. Like someone else said the faaeal iris2.0 for a few bucks sounds surprisingly good. But it does not compare to the ff3s (which I paid 60 for) imo if you're able to hear the small differences that make the ff3 better. But there's also the diminishing returns kicking in already. For most people those iris2.0 for less than $10 is all they'll ever need.
3. Yes they are worth the price. I have the ff3s, alpha 3, and riku saber3. I am very impressed with the saber3 and they're my current fav for most genres. But they were more expensive than the 2 big name products. The 2 big name products do flex their abilities well in shell tech, tuning, value. Both can be had for ~60 during sales which is half the price of the riku saber 3. They are closer is sound quality than price reflects. The alpha3 are my least favorite for my needs but they do sound of high quality. But considering Riku has developed a custom 3d printed shell that I find to be very comfortable and feels better and higher quality than cheap plastic shells. I enjoyed doing business with Riku moreso than ordering buds on a big website(Amazon, ali). I'm currently waiting for the ksearphone dbx because I just had to see how much better they can be at their price tier and they were the best looking earbuds I've seen. I'll update when they arrive re: diminishing value.

 

[ImaginaryFireball]

Thanks for the replies, very insightful. I guess I should have gone into a bit more detail with my experience and tastes. I have tried the Blue Vido buds, the Snow Lotus 1.0, the Yincrow RW-100, and the Qian39. I liked the tuning on the Snow Lotus, but it wasn't quite as detailed as I would have liked. Similarly, I liked the Quian39's tuning, but the cable isn't great. I liked the mid-bass and mids a bit more on the Snow Lotus, and the highs a bit more on the Qian39. The Vidos and RW-100s were just kind of meh in a way that I can't really describe in terms of tuning, however the RW-100s seemed a bit more detailed than any of the others.

I was looking into my options for a natural upgrade based on these observations, but I wanted to understand the market a bit more rather than just come on here and ask what I should buy like a pleb.

As far as IEMs go, lately I've been using the Artti T10 with eartips that cut down the sub-bass and treble a bit.

Based solely on the description on the website, the Rikubuds Rider 1 seem to fit my general tastes in tuning. That being warm neutral.

 

[hiheaded]

Thanks for the replies, very insightful. I guess I should have gone into a bit more detail with my experience and tastes. I have tried the Blue Vido buds, the Snow Lotus 1.0, the Yincrow RW-100, and the Qian39. I liked the tuning on the Snow Lotus, but it wasn't quite as detailed as I would have liked. Similarly, I liked the Quian39's tuning, but the cable isn't great. I liked the mid-bass and mids a bit more on the Snow Lotus, and the highs a bit more on the Qian39. The Vidos and RW-100s were just kind of meh in a way that I can't really describe in terms of tuning, however the RW-100s seemed a bit more detailed than any of the others.

I was looking into my options for a natural upgrade based on these observations, but I wanted to understand the market a bit more rather than just come on here and ask what I should buy like a pleb.

As far as IEMs go, lately I've been using the Artti T10 with eartips that cut down the sub-bass and treble a bit.

Based solely on the description on the website, the Rikubuds Rider 1 seem to fit my general tastes in tuning. That being warm neutral.

Gotcha. I'd def hit up Riku then he'll have something good for you.

 

[saldsald]

Is this a thing? The first connector I successfully wired up I had spent a LOT of time failing on, and I heated it up real good trying to wick out excess solder. After the leads were on, I checked with my multimeter and there was no electrical connection between the two ends of the leads, and the connector did not seem visually damaged, so I assumed it was okay. I planned to treat that one as a success and wire it up to the driver once I get a second shell in from Aliexpress in 2 weeks, but maybe I should just start from scratch.

This mmcx conncetor is flawed in design as I mentioned and if you are still struggling you should get some shells with the longer type mmcx connector with enough level difference between the two polarities.

Edit: well yea, it depends on the location and the amount of the excessive solder. It's not always the case but I just prefer not using a wick here.

To encourage more people getting to DIY their buds I actually just shot this video to show how the the soldering job is done acceptably and how excessive solder can be removed. However, sorry about the quality of my phone's zoom quality.

 

[fooltoque]

This mmcx conncetor is flawed in design as I mentioned and if you are still struggling you should get some shells with the longer type mmcx connector with enough level difference between the two polarities.

To encourage more people getting to DIY their buds I actually just shot this video to show how the the soldering job is done acceptably and how excessive solder can be removed. But sorry about the quality of my phone's zoom quality.

Ooh, thanks for the video! That should help a lot

 

[mt877]

I think it's the setup of the rig not the smoothing. I use a fake ear as an adapter so I think my graphs might look different from most people's measurements. You can try listening to the FR with this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.functiongenerator

I use a silicone ear as well. It's always hard to compare measurements between different setups, but as long as we are both comfortable with our own measurements, then that is what matters. Different rigs, different results.

 

[mt877]

Is this a thing? The first connector I successfully wired up I had spent a LOT of time failing on, and I heated it up real good trying to wick out excess solder. After the leads were on, I checked with my multimeter and there was no electrical connection between the two ends of the leads, and the connector did not seem visually damaged, so I assumed it was okay. I planned to treat that one as a success and wire it up to the driver once I get a second shell in from Aliexpress in 2 weeks, but maybe I should just start from scratch.

I use solder wick for some things on a PCB, but always a solder sucker for odd shaped things like the mmcx connectors. If you used the helping hands, then the alligator clip acts as a heat sink drawing the heat away, so that would help to cool down the connector. I think your soldered connector is probably ok to use. There are pre-soldered mmcx connectors available if you want to avoid that task.

The example picture from the store looks very close to how I solder mine.

Spoiler

 

[Tonytex]

Firstly i would like to start by thanking @RikudouGoku for having been kind enough to send me these two earbuds , The Alter Rider 3 and Saber 3.

Also I feel privileged that he deems my opinion worthy and as such it was with enthusiasm that I made this review.

For further information concerning purchasing please note the following links:
https://rikubuds.com/generation-3/
https://www.instagram.com/rikubuds/

Secondly let me say I am no expert when it comes the earbuds, truthfully I don't consider myself an expert in IEMs either, I simply listen , confirm if what I have shoved into my ears pleases my senses and then proceed to express my opinion as best as i can using my musical preferences, my equipment and obviously my ear anatomy!

When it comes to Earbuds the make or brake moniker is very true, as the fit will determine the success or failure of the listening experience.

With regards to this I can say I am lucky, my ears are receptive to earbuds and as such I was able to make a correct judgement concerning the Alter Rider 3 and Saber 3.

The accessories that the earbuds are provided with, are ample and satisfied my needs:
White foams , High density, add warmth/bass
Red foams , Med density, balanced sound
Black foams , Low density, make the sound brighter.
All that's left is to foam roll and see what suits your preferences better.

The cable provided is of good quality even if non detachable and that leads to a 15.4mm driver which is either Titanium diaphragmed in the Alter or LCP in the Saber.

There's also a impedance variance between the two models, Alter is 32ohm and Saber 64ohm.

Now what makes the Alter 3 and Saber 3 special is the Soundsphere technology.
To not overcomplicate , the inside of the 3D printed shell has some baffling, cleverly designed to reduce unwanted resonances, by braking down and or re orienting the sound waves created by the drivers motion.
This has the effect of increasing the clarity with which the drivers play, but also improves imagining and Soundstage.
In my books, this sort of technical prowess sits right along side the wave guide system that Smabat uses, and although both are very unique, I'll give Riku the win, the guy is a small diyer...respect!

The Alter 3 and Saber 3 are exceptional when it comes to tonality, meaning that both are quite versatile in the music genres they can support, although the darker nature and bass richer Alter 3 can make it shine with EDM , Rock, while the Saber 3 will feel at home with Jazz and Classic.

Bass of this duo is of excellent quality while quantity is ample, the Alter 3 sounding a little warmer due to slightly less uppermids and treble energy.
Either way the sub-bass is present but focus remains on mid-bass which is truly exceptional.
Both exhibit very good texture, speed, no noticeable bleed into the mids, just very engaging and well executed bass.

The mids are the star of the show, and with the almost absence of bass bleed , they come across clean, full bodied , providing that typical earbud musicality.
The Alter 3 is a smidge darker while the Saber 3 a little brighter, but whichever one you choose , vocals are always simply amazing.

The highs complement the mids , by offering the right energy, minimal sibilance and no harshness.
Instruments have a natural sound to them, with everything just being very musicaly correct.
Worth mentioning that the Saber 3 with its extra amount of treble can edge out slightly the Alter 3 when it comes to detail retrieval and that sense of Air.

Technicalities are another area which impressed me.
Soundstage is as expected from earbuds, large, more on the Saber than in the Alter Rider , although the difference to my ears seems to be more in the height.

Imaging on either one is again good , most tracks being easily resolved and broken down, even when complex.
But for me the technicality that stands out is how good timbre and tonality are.
They just sound so organic and real that it definitely makes them stand out.

Comparisons where made with some of my favourite earbuds, KSEarphones LBBS, Smabat M4 + Super One Module , VE Asura 3.0FE, Dunu Alpha 3, among a few others.
All have their magic, some being a true earbud representation, Asura, while others give me some IEM vibes, Smabat.

The Rikubuds are in my opinion and considering my personal taste an almost perfect pair of earbuds, the Alter gives me the Bass and warmth I like , the Saber the vocals and openness I appreciate, both bring a huge smile to my face!

 

[jeejack]

I use solder wick for some things on a PCB, but always a solder sucker for odd shaped things like the mmcx connectors. If you used the helping hands, then the alligator clip acts as a heat sink drawing the heat away, so that would help to cool down the connector. I think your soldered connector is probably ok to use. There are pre-soldered mmcx connectors available if you want to avoid that task.

The example picture from the store looks very close to how I solder mine.

Spoiler

They are not good for that metalic shell

 

[BCool]

Just got my Smabat M5 black bodies paired with the 150Ti M4 modules. In short, disappointing. The 3K icepick isn't quite gone, it's been reduced and moved to around 2K.
Overall still sounds decent though, the bass is present and decently deep and it definitely sounds more balanced if a tad bright for my liking. But for the amount of money I've spent getting here it's definitely not worth the money; an FF3 does bass better (though perhaps less detailed) and the rest of it is easily achievable by DIY.

 

[ttorbic]

Firstly i would like to start by thanking @RikudouGoku for having been kind enough to send me these two earbuds , The Alter Rider 3 and Saber 3.

Also I feel privileged that he deems my opinion worthy and as such it was with enthusiasm that I made this review.

For further information concerning purchasing please note the following links:
https://rikubuds.com/generation-3/
https://www.instagram.com/rikubuds/

Secondly let me say I am no expert when it comes the earbuds, truthfully I don't consider myself an expert in IEMs either, I simply listen , confirm if what I have shoved into my ears pleases my senses and then proceed to express my opinion as best as i can using my musical preferences, my equipment and obviously my ear anatomy!

When it comes to Earbuds the make or brake moniker is very true, as the fit will determine the success or failure of the listening experience.

With regards to this I can say I am lucky, my ears are receptive to earbuds and as such I was able to make a correct judgement concerning the Alter Rider 3 and Saber 3.

The accessories that the earbuds are provided with, are ample and satisfied my needs:
White foams , High density, add warmth/bass
Red foams , Med density, balanced sound
Black foams , Low density, make the sound brighter.
All that's left is to foam roll and see what suits your preferences better.

The cable provided is of good quality even if non detachable and that leads to a 15.4mm driver which is either Titanium diaphragmed in the Alter or LCP in the Saber.

There's also a impedance variance between the two models, Alter is 32ohm and Saber 64ohm.

Now what makes the Alter 3 and Saber 3 special is the Soundsphere technology.
To not overcomplicate , the inside of the 3D printed shell has some baffling, cleverly designed to reduce unwanted resonances, by braking down and or re orienting the sound waves created by the drivers motion.
This has the effect of increasing the clarity with which the drivers play, but also improves imagining and Soundstage.
In my books, this sort of technical prowess sits right along side the wave guide system that Smabat uses, and although both are very unique, I'll give Riku the win, the guy is a small diyer...respect!

The Alter 3 and Saber 3 are exceptional when it comes to tonality, meaning that both are quite versatile in the music genres they can support, although the darker nature and bass richer Alter 3 can make it shine with EDM , Rock, while the Saber 3 will feel at home with Jazz and Classic.

Bass of this duo is of excellent quality while quantity is ample, the Alter 3 sounding a little warmer due to slightly less uppermids and treble energy.
Either way the sub-bass is present but focus remains on mid-bass which is truly exceptional.
Both exhibit very good texture, speed, no noticeable bleed into the mids, just very engaging and well executed bass.

The mids are the star of the show, and with the almost absence of bass bleed , they come across clean, full bodied , providing that typical earbud musicality.
The Alter 3 is a smidge darker while the Saber 3 a little brighter, but whichever one you choose , vocals are always simply amazing.

The highs complement the mids , by offering the right energy, minimal sibilance and no harshness.
Instruments have a natural sound to them, with everything just being very musicaly correct.
Worth mentioning that the Saber 3 with its extra amount of treble can edge out slightly the Alter 3 when it comes to detail retrieval and that sense of Air.

Technicalities are another area which impressed me.
Soundstage is as expected from earbuds, large, more on the Saber than in the Alter Rider , although the difference to my ears seems to be more in the height.

Imaging on either one is again good , most tracks being easily resolved and broken down, even when complex.
But for me the technicality that stands out is how good timbre and tonality are.
They just sound so organic and real that it definitely makes them stand out.

Comparisons where made with some of my favourite earbuds, KSEarphones LBBS, Smabat M4 + Super One Module , VE Asura 3.0FE, Dunu Alpha 3, among a few others.
All have their magic, some being a true earbud representation, Asura, while others give me some IEM vibes, Smabat.

The Rikubuds are in my opinion and considering my personal taste an almost perfect pair of earbuds, the Alter gives me the Bass and warmth I like , the Saber the vocals and openness I appreciate, both bring a huge smile to my face!

Thanks for sharing your impressions! His latest generation seems highly innovative.

I hope you check out some TGXEar in the future!

 

[fooltoque]

I use solder wick for some things on a PCB, but always a solder sucker for odd shaped things like the mmcx connectors. If you used the helping hands, then the alligator clip acts as a heat sink drawing the heat away, so that would help to cool down the connector. I think your soldered connector is probably ok to use.

I guess there is no drawback to giving it a shot

There are pre-soldered mmcx connectors available if you want to avoid that task.

Oh, that is tempting. It would feel a bit like accepting the failure lol. But on the other hand, the pre-soldered ones would still allow the final product to be fairly cost effective. Maybe a good intermediate step until I got more comfortable with the process.

 

[saldsald]

I use a silicone ear as well. It's always hard to compare measurements between different setups, but as long as we are both comfortable with our own measurements, then that is what matters. Different rigs, different results.

Yea, I agree, I think the most important thing here is to compare the measurements measured by the same rig. And maybe my knock-off sillicone is too cheap to compare with the standard ones, lol.

I actually just tested the rig without the fake ear and also with some blutack to provide better seal and I could get results closer to your measurments, suggesting that your setup maybe more leak proof. I think I would work from here again to find out how the setup may be altered to match what I hear by testing the frequencies escaped.
https://onlinetonegenerator.com/frequency-sweep-generator.html