[mt877]

Mine shipped

RE: M4 shipping... I'm glad they are shipping out. Hope I get the shipping email or that surprise delivery at my door soon.

 

[samandhi]

In pro audio, it is not unusual for a cable run to be 100 meters at a concert venue, and balanced cables are critical for a clean signal.

I would also think that a litz cable structure would help in this scenerio too.

As for why to use balanced over SE in IEMs/headphones/earbuds the issues discussed already are a factor indeed (lower noise floor, more power) but that is only typical where portable is concerned. In fact, some desktop amps put out just as much power over a SE connection as does portable gear from balanced. So, this is only really typical insomuch as the manufacturers make the decision to not make available more power over SE than they do over balanced (probably a cost thing in implentation).

Now, there is another factor (and the biggest reason to use balanced over SE) that is called crosstalk. There are two main factors that can be noticed when you have crosstalk (which all amplification circuits have to some extent or another). One is better stereo separation. If you are an audiophile seeking out that last 1-5% performance from head gear you will more than likely want to use balanced because of this factor. Though this isn't a must, it IS a factor.

But, the main reason (number 2) for balanced over SE in the portable/transportable world is because of audible noise that can be generated over a cable leading to transducers due to cable resistance over a shared ground (or a shared inductance). This may or may not be perceived by our ears but is more common in lower impedance head gear. When a cable is wired in an SE fashion is is more likely to get this noise generated from resistance because both transducers load are counted as one, where in a balanced fashion they are isolated from one another and are less likely to have audible noise because of this. Here is a better explanation on what I am trying to explain:

The physics involved here is actually much simpler than you might have thought. Each conductor within the cable will inherently have a certain small resistance, and so the current flowing along those conductors to drive the transducer will inevitably generate a small voltage across their resistances.
Thinking about a single transducer, what you have is a simple voltage divider. The output voltage from the headphone amp is applied across two bits of wire with a transducer connected between them. Most of the voltage will appear across the transducer, because that has the highest resistance, but some will also appear across each of the connecting wires, due to their own small resistances.
Now, if we add a second transducer, but use one of the original wires as a shared common return, then the voltage seen by that second transducer is not only the voltage generated by the headphone amp (minus the small voltages lost across the connecting conductors), but also the voltage developed across the common ground conductor from the current flowing through the first transducer.
The crosstalk comes from the signal voltage applied across the first transducer, which develops a small voltage across the ground return conductor, which then also appears in series with the signal voltage applied across the second transducer, and vice versa. So the crosstalk voltage is actually a mono sum of both the left and right signals, and it gets applied to both transducers in series with the wanted signal voltages from the headphone amp.
The problem is inherently worse with low-impedance headphones, since the cable resistance becomes more significant compared to the transducer impedance, and thus the crosstalk voltage becomes a larger proportion of the total.
Typically this crosstalk voltage will be between 30 and 50 dB lower than the wanted signal, but that won't affect stereo perception in any significant way. Gramophone pickups often barely manage 20dB separation, after all, and nobody complains much about that! However, this headphone crosstalk issue is a real phenomenon, and it can become audible if the stereo audio source has radically different signals on each channel.
Some headphone amplifiers (like this Grace Design m903) have a 'crossfeed' feature that deliberately introduces crosstalk. This is designed to simulate the way in which sound from a loudspeaker reaches both our ears.
Using electrically separate ground return wires helps to avoid the problem because they are connected directly to the amp's reference ground (the sleeve contact on the jack socket), and so there is no possibility of the current from one transducer generating a crosstalk voltage in the cable for the other! The same basic physics also explains the benefits of bi-wiring passive loudspeakers, by the way!
Headphone crosstalk is normally entirely down to the headphone cable resistance and a shared ground return path; crosstalk between channels of modern audio electronic equipment is typically at least 70dB below the wanted signal and isn't generally audible at all.
The Grace Design m903 (and many other high-end headphone amps) does have a 'crossfeed' mode, and this does deliberately introduce crosstalk. However, the crosstalk in question is carefully frequency-shaped and delayed, to simulate the way that sound from one loudspeaker reaches both ears, the amount varying with frequency (and time) due to the shape of the head. Obviously, with headphones, each ear can only hear the sound generated by the earpiece serving that ear, and that results in the typical 'sounds on a line between the ears inside the head' effect that we all know. The crossfeed system (sometimes also called HRTF processing) creates a stereo presentation on headphones that more closely emulates loudspeaker listening, by deliberately reintroducing the acoustic crosstalk that occurs in that situation.
The fundamental advantage of high-end headphone amps is in their more sophisticated and powerful amplifiers, which can generate greater currents and voltages for the headphone load than typical equipment headphone drivers. The benefits are the same as those when pairing a passive speaker with a powerful amp, which always sounds much better than using a weedy amp, even when used at low listening levels.

Having said that, remember that not all distortion is "displeasing". After all we have tube amps, which deliberately introduced distortion to the mix.

I too am interested in the Supermoon's even though they seem to be only in ciem option. Have heard so many good things about them!

Not all hope is lost on these I think, as can be seen on the Can Jam London thread where they had some few UIEM setups available for people to listen to. I hope they see this as another alternative to CIEM only...

 

[fooltoque]

I finally had a chance to visit my local store and try out some of the recommendations you guys had for open back IEMs.

Sony MDR-EX800ST- Sony's naming sense is the best. Honestly I couldn't figure out how to wear these, and the guy at the shop couldn't figure it out either. The only way it worked was if the text was on the inside and the smooth looking surface, which totally looked like it should be on the inside, was facing out. We even disconnected the cables and verified that they were properly attached (proprietary interface, again Sony geez why you do....). Well at least I could fit the tips into my ears and get a listen.

Final E3000- despite having the open grill on the back, they didn't feel any more open than normal IEMs to me.

TFZ Tequila- These I enjoyed. They were pretty comfortable.

Raptgo Hook X- Probably my favorite out of the recommendations, and the ones that felt the most open out of the bunch.

FiiO FH9- This wasn't a recommendation, but I also found that they have large vents. I like the FiiO tuning, and these were the ones I felt I actually wanted. Out of my price range though...

All in all, for each of them I found myself wishing that they were more open, and not really seeing situations where I would chose any of them over my FiiO EM5 earbuds. So earbud bias confirmed.

More importantly, I found that they do have a small earbuds section! I was able to try Moondrop Chaconne, ATH-CM2000TI, and a few others. The ATH-CM2000TI was sooo technical. I felt like it outperformed my EM5s by quite a bit. I would need to EQ more than the EM5s though, as the tuning didn't quite work for me. I'm okay with EQ. I want them.

I was disappointed that they didn't have the FF3. Maybe it is slow to come to Japan. I really wanted to try them.

 

[drewbadour]

Now I just need to find some funds to order it and more importantly, to get it past my wife LOLOL.

Holy crap, are you me?

I can only buy things on PayPal balance so nothing touches our statements - is that the same as you? lol

 

[leaky74]

Enjoying @RikudouGoku Beserker 2 this aft. Everything served up on a nice fat (phat? ) bedrock of sub bass!

 

[ttorbic]

Enjoying @RikudouGoku Beserker 2 this aft. Everything served up on a nice fat (phat? ) bedrock of sub bass!

These two images confused me for a good few seconds lol. Nice purchase though!!

 

[weexisttocease]

Brought the Pislo PXVV for holidays with me. Actually it is all I need. Great musicality with clear details. Drinking some Guacamayo and enjoying my favorite tunes.

 

[samandhi]

Holy crap, are you me?

I can only buy things on PayPal balance so nothing touches our statements - is that the same as you? lol

This is how I operate also (covertly)...

Edit: Better yet, I use PayPal credit so she doesn't even even see that I spent anything (paying the same amount per month either way)...

 

[drewbadour]

For someone who prefers tonality and timbre of instruments and voices over technicality (still prefer better techs but if it comes at the cost of tone and timbre, then no thanks), a decent amount of bass but not basshead levels. And for someone that listens to a ton of different genres - jazz, blues, indie, folk, rock, classical (orchestral and chamber), kpop, edm, etc.

Would the RW2000 ($122), FF3($76), or Longyao Yinman 600ohm ($108) be the best choice?

 

[mt877]

Just found this site, maybe our hearing or headphones / earphones / iems / flat head buds need a sanity check from time to time?
Our equipment will most likely exceed our hearing capability.

The Ultimate Headphones (and Earphones) Test

 

[samandhi]

For someone who prefers tonality and timbre of instruments and voices over technicality (still prefer better techs but if it comes at the cost of tone and timbre, then no thanks), a decent amount of bass but not basshead levels. And for someone that listens to a ton of different genres - jazz, blues, indie, folk, rock, classical (orchestral and chamber), kpop, edm, etc.

Would the RW2000 ($122), FF3($76), or Longyao Yinman 600ohm ($108) be the best choice?

Normally I would say the Yinman (for me), but for what you are asking, I would actually say that the FF3 will probably be best in that category IMHO... The Yincrow are great for tone and timbre, but staging is not as good overall as on the FF3.

Having said that, all three are EXCELLENT all-rounders IMO, so you can't really go wrong here.

 

[drewbadour]

Normally I would say the Yinman (for me), but for what you are asking, I would actually say that the FF3 will probably be best in that category IMHO... The Yincrow are great for tone and timbre, but staging is not as good overall as on the FF3.

Having said that, all three are EXCELLENT all-rounders IMO, so you can't really go wrong here.

Nice! I have both in my shopping cart now and definitely on the fence haha. What about the yinman would you prefer over the FF3?

 

[samandhi]

This song really brings out the massive staging, great dynamics, etc... on the FF3 (just WOW!), though I am hearing it in hi-res so YMMV with this video:

 

[samandhi]

Nice! I have both in my shopping cart now and definitely on the fence haha. What about the yinman would you prefer over the FF3?

I prefer the deeper bass (though they both have great bass; FF3 having a bit more slam, and the Yinman seems to go deeper), and the overall timbre is warmer, thus being a bit fuller and thicker. Technicalities are pretty on par with the FF3 IMO so that is a wash.

 

[samandhi]

Nice! I have both in my shopping cart now and definitely on the fence haha. What about the yinman would you prefer over the FF3?

BUT.... keep in mind that Yinman need quite a bit more power to sound "proper", and the FF3 can be driven off any phone. Also, the FF3 are also built like a tank. The Yinman are wooden (if that matters to you). Also the FF3 have a modular cable OOTB. The Yinman are much lighter, but (for my ears anyhow) the FF3 actually fit better (than any other bud I have).

Maybe none of these things matter, but just giving you the info so you can better make up your own mind...