[o0genesis0o]

The Earbuds God-Father's latest creation:

Planar Magnetic Earbud DIY V3 by @ClieOS

His creativity abounds. I am too excited for this next installment in his Planar Flathead R&D journey. Mad skills to say the least, yes?!

That shell looks familiar. I think I have seen it somewhere

 

[samandhi]

Tom from Dunu explained about these Be coated drivers in an interview. Essentially, some drivers are good but some have too little coating that it does not matter. Pure Be on the other hand can be difficult to use to build drivers (high failure rate, I remember), so they tend to be more expensive.

Personally, I have no congestion problem with large orchestral pieces, but I don’t listen to very fast metal music either. I found FF3 not “crisp” as my Andromeda in the same track, but not muffled or muddy either. It is within the ballpark of Blessing 2 (good) rather than Andromeda /U12t/Z1r (outstanding).

I would highly agree with this statement. This, combined with the warm and smooth nature might contribute to this.

 

[silverszi]

Yurbuds earbuds slip-on silicone nozzles? Maybe they'll work for you?

Maybe
but I think there's an easier solution albeit a jank one unless an asymmetrical shell already exists where it is thicker on the bottom, because that way it would force itself into place in my ear instead of slide around.

edit
I can use a shell with a protruding element to keep it in place instead and those already exist (aliexpress wood shell)

 

[silverszi]

I think i have finally found a driver that will not rupture my ears
plus I eq'd ve monk and it sounds useable now
i still dont like either the lite or xm500 shell though. lbbs was fine-ish.

 

[samandhi]

I have been experimenting with foam rolling and changing out different amp cards (essentially different DAPs) with the FF3, and I have come to the conclusion that (like @Ronion said) foams make a HUGE difference on these. I mean it isn't as subtle of a difference as I have seen on most (all) of my other buds.

I decided to strip it all back and start from the beginning. BTW! I suppose I failed to mention in my initial impressions that I went straight to the bass foams (thinking that most buds need a bit of help in this department). I have removed the foams altogether and found that it opened this set up a ton. But now it was a bit hot (right on the edge) in the pina gain region, so I switched out from my most bright amp card (Amp12 card) and put in the Nutube amp card (Amp13). THIS is a great pairing!

I am pretty excited to see all the (noticeable) permutations I might stumble across rolling foams and amp cards. I would not still call these warm or smooth (in all ways) with this lineup. I still really liked the bass foams with Amp12, but not for certain types of music. With no foams on a tube amp I would actually put these more akin to the Chaconne with a slight W (and more bass).

I have not seen this amount of perceived change with a simple foam change since the Audiosense T800 (all BA set) with their tips and cable changes.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I have been experimenting with foam rolling and changing out different amp cards (essentially different DAPs) with the FF3, and I have come to the conclusion that (like @Ronion said) foams make a HUGE difference on these. I mean it isn't as subtle of a difference as I have seen on most (all) of my other buds.

I decided to strip it all back and start from the beginning. BTW! I suppose I failed to mention in my initial impressions that I went straight to the bass foams (thinking that most buds need a bit of help in this department). I have removed the foams altogether and found that it opened this set up a ton. But now it was a bit hot (right on the edge) in the pina gain region, so I switched out from my most bright amp card (Amp12 card) and put in the Nutube amp card (Amp13). THIS is a great pairing!

I am pretty excited to see all the (noticeable) permutations I might stumble across rolling foams and amp cards. I would not still call these warm or smooth (in all ways) with this lineup. I still really liked the bass foams with Amp12, but not for certain types of music. With no foams on a tube amp I would actually put these more akin to the Chaconne with a slight W (and more bass).

I have not seen this amount of perceived change with a simple foam change since the Audiosense T800 (all BA set) with their tips and cable changes.

The sensitivity to foam is going on the cons list of my review. With balanced and bass foam, I have ideal tuning and staging but lose a noticeable level of resolution. With donut foam, I gain high resolution that even approach Andromeda level sometimes, but the tonality becomes shouty (sometimes).

It’s tricky to be ear buds seller, to think about it. You build the most resolving buds possible, and folks put double foam on it and write review “blurry, muddy, low resolution”

 

[samandhi]

The sensitivity to foam is going on the cons list of my review. With balanced and bass foam, I have ideal tuning and staging but lose a noticeable level of resolution. With donut foam, I gain high resolution that even approach Andromeda level sometimes, but the tonality becomes shouty (sometimes).

It’s tricky to be ear buds seller, to think about it. You build the most resolving buds possible, and folks put double foam on it and write review “blurry, muddy, low resolution”

This exactly. Just WOW IMO!

LOL to the double foams reviewer!

 

[JAnonymous5150]

The sensitivity to foam is going on the cons list of my review.

Why is this a con? That's like saying it's a con that his DAP changes its tonality and performance so much with each amp card. To me the fact that the FF3s are easy to tune by using different foams is an attribute that makes them more versatile to the owner. For every kind of foam that came with them and every aftermarket foam I acquire I essentially have a different earbud. Sure, some of those tunings will be more to my tastes than others, but I just don't see how having a bud that allows you to shape it's sonic properties with a technique as easy as foam rolling is a con. I guess we just have different perspectives.

Let me put it this way. Everytime you have foam rolled on an earbud in the past and were unable to achieve annoticeable or usable result I'm sure you thought it was a con that the bud was unable to be changed much from a flawed stock tuning. So now that you have an earbud that's offering you that tuning versatility and just begging for you to explore foam combos you're gonna hold that against the buds too? What should a manufacturer do to get foam rollable tuning to be a pro in your book? I'll bet you're a difficult guy to please...

 

[o0genesis0o]

Why is this a con? That's like saying it's a con that your DAP changes its tonality and performance so much with each amp card. To me the fact that the FF3s are easy to tune by using different foams is an attribute that makes them more versatile to the owner. For every kind of foam that came with them and every aftermarket foam I acquire I essentially have a different earbud. Sure, some of those tunings will be more to my tastes than others, but I just don't see how having a bud that allows you to shape it's sonic properties with a technique as easy as foam rolling is a con. I guess we just have different perspectives.

Let me put it this way. Everytime you have foam rolled on an earbud in the past and were unable to achieve annoticeable or usable result I'm sure you thought it was a con that the bud was unable to be changed much from a flawed stock tuning. So now that you have an earbud that's offering you that tuning versatility and just begging for you to explore foam combos you're gonna hold that against the buds too? What should a manufacturer do to get foam rollable tuning to be a pro in your book? I'll bet you're a difficult guy to please...

Con is not “too flexible” but like this: “resolving but shouty with donut foam, not shouty but not outstandingly resolving with full foams”. I wish there is a middle ground, though I guess Fiio pushes the ear gain a bit in case people to use foam.

Speaking of difficult, have you seen the position of the expensive Solaris 2020 in my ranking list

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Con is not “too flexible” but like this: “resolving but shouty with donut foam, not shouty but not outstandingly resolving with full foams”. I wish there is a middle ground, though I guess Fiio pushes the ear gain a bit in case people to use foam.

Speaking of difficult, have you seen the position of the expensive Solaris 2020 in my ranking list

Try other foams. Also, I don't find them shouty at all with the donut foams. I'm not disagreeing with you as that perception is a highly individualized thing. But just as with any IEM or headphone that offers you a great sound that's not quite where you want it, you move on to aftermarket tips, pads, or in this case foams.

For the record, I think the con would be that you don't prefer the stock tuning(s) available then, not the FF3's sensitvity to foams. So far I have found that the stock donuts and these really thin foams from I got in one of my orders are great to switch between. I'm still lovin' the FF3s, still marvelling at the performance they offer for such modest money, and still wondering what Fiio has up it's sleeve for the FF5.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I'm still lovin' the FF3s, still marvelling at the performance they offer for such modest money, and still wondering what Fiio has up it's sleeve for the FF5.

Agree about FF3.

About FF5: “Hey fellow young people, I hear you guys like bass and treble. How about lots of bass and treble, eh?” Fiio probably (hope not )

 

[mt877]

Funny you guys are talking about the FF3 foams. As an exercise to determine foam density I decided to measure the various earbud foams I have on hand.

I have various colors of foams, but only measured the black ones for consistency.

So how did I do it? I took a calibrated luminance meter and a light board for viewing photographic slides and measured the light passing through each foam, not through a single layer of the foam, but through the entire foam with hole side up. I did not measure donut foams due to light passing through without being filtered by a layer of foam. To be consistent with the measurements I masked off a section of the light board to the size of a typical foam and centered each foam in the masked off area and then centered and pressed my luminance meter's nozzle on the foam (which was a perfect fit). The base measurement of my light board was 1238 cd/m2 (candela per meter squared). The values in the table are cd/m2 values after the light was filtered through each foam. Each foam was new and unused. A used foam would have been stretched out, so I'm not sure if used foams would have provided more accurate data. Needless to say that I was not going to use all my foams and stretch them out for the sake of my curiosity, so these measurements will have to suffice.

How to interpret the data. Lower number means less light passed through the foam which would indicate higher foam density. The FF3 balanced and bass foam measurements were surprising. I measured the foams as supplied in their labeled bags. The VE foams were some of the lowest density foams, but there were several that blocked more light. The higher density VE foams were in the same bag along with higher density colored foams, so not sure if VE foams are all supposed to be thin or if they also include thicker foams as well(?). From the numbers, it looks like VE may give you 3 thicknesses of foams, but I'm not 100% sure if that is an accurate statement either. The No Name foams came from a couple sources and have been segregated in their original plastic bags since I got them.

So how does one accurately measure foam density? I guess what I did was a reasonable attempt which gave some numerical data, anyway it was a fun exercise.

Enjoy.

Here's the results:

FF3 Balanced​	FF3 Bass​	VE Black​	Hiegi Black​	No Name Black #1​	No Name Black #2​	No Name Black #3​
29.8​	35.5​	117.6​	39.7​	20.2​	42.2​	59.8​
23​	32.5​	129.1​	29.4​	21.4​	50.3​	39.1​
51​	35.4​	73.2​	32.3​	20.9​	47.6​	35.3​
28.4​	34.4​	84.2​	32.7​	13.8​	37​	32.1​
33.5​	35.6​	130.4​	23.8​	23.9​	16.3​	33.9​
34.1​	42.9​	125.6​	23.1​	22.6​	42.7​	40.7​
36.2​	31.2​	72.2​	23.7​	25.1​	35.7​	30.8​
38.3​	46.1​	83.7​	28.3​	22.8​	39.8​	34.8​
43.2​	40.5​	180.6​	19.1​	16.2​	41​	27.1​
51.6​	40.1​	171.1​	32.3​	​	16.4​	39.6​
44.9​	36.3​	140.3​	30.2​	​	7.73​	30.5​
32.1​	44.6​	173.8​	24.4​	​	8.95​	34.3​
​	​	28.2​	​	​	35.56​	32.6​
​	​	26.3​	​	​	​	38.6​
​	​	23.6​	​	​	​	35.2​
​	​	23.4​	​	​	​	39.1​
​	​	160.4​	​	​	​	38.1​
​	​	170.4​	​	​	​	35.4​
​	​	150.1​	​	​	​	31.9​
​	​	154.6​	​	​	​	33.4​
​	​	83.5​	​	​	​	43.1​
​	​	70.6​	​	​	​	33.2​

 

[Ronion]

I’m sure that the FF3 isn’t leaving my stable ever—until I die or it breaks. The thing I like the most about is the midrange. I have no idea how to describe it subjectively, but it sure is nice. The bass is definitely the immediate star of the show, but after a while, the midrange is just lush, full and detailed.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Funny you guys are talking about the FF3 foams. As an exercise to determine foam density I decided to measure the various earbud foams I have on hand.

I have various colors of foams, but only measured the black ones for consistency.

So how did I do it? I took a calibrated luminance meter and a light board for viewing photographic slides and measured the light passing through each foam, not through a single layer of the foam, but through the entire foam with hole side up. I did not measure donut foams due to light passing through without being filtered by a layer of foam. To be consistent with the measurements I masked off a section of the light board to the size of a typical foam and centered each foam in the masked off area and then centered and pressed my luminance meter's nozzle on the foam (which was a perfect fit). The base measurement of my light board was 1238 cd/m2 (candela per meter squared). The values in the table are cd/m2 values after the light was filtered through each foam. Each foam was new and unused. A used foam would have been stretched out, so I'm not sure if used foams would have provided more accurate data. Needless to say that I was not going to use all my foams and stretch them out for the sake of my curiosity, so these measurements will have to suffice.

How to interpret the data. Lower number means less light passed through the foam which would indicate higher foam density. The FF3 balanced and bass foam measurements were surprising. I measured the foams as supplied in their labeled bags. The VE foams were some of the lowest density foams, but there were several that blocked more light. The higher density VE foams were in the same bag along with higher density colored foams, so not sure if VE foams are all supposed to be thin or if they also include thicker foams as well(?). From the numbers, it looks like VE may give you 3 thicknesses of foams, but I'm not 100% sure if that is an accurate statement either. The No Name foams came from a couple sources and have been segregated in their original plastic bags since I got them.

So how does one accurately measure foam density? I guess what I did was a reasonable attempt which gave some numerical data, anyway it was a fun exercise.

Enjoy.

Here's the results:

FF3 Balanced​	FF3 Bass​	VE Black​	Hiegi Black​	No Name Black #1​	No Name Black #2​	No Name Black #3​
29.8​	35.5​	117.6​	39.7​	20.2​	42.2​	59.8​
23​	32.5​	129.1​	29.4​	21.4​	50.3​	39.1​
51​	35.4​	73.2​	32.3​	20.9​	47.6​	35.3​
28.4​	34.4​	84.2​	32.7​	13.8​	37​	32.1​
33.5​	35.6​	130.4​	23.8​	23.9​	16.3​	33.9​
34.1​	42.9​	125.6​	23.1​	22.6​	42.7​	40.7​
36.2​	31.2​	72.2​	23.7​	25.1​	35.7​	30.8​
38.3​	46.1​	83.7​	28.3​	22.8​	39.8​	34.8​
43.2​	40.5​	180.6​	19.1​	16.2​	41​	27.1​
51.6​	40.1​	171.1​	32.3​	​	16.4​	39.6​
44.9​	36.3​	140.3​	30.2​	​	7.73​	30.5​
32.1​	44.6​	173.8​	24.4​	​	8.95​	34.3​
​	​	28.2​	​	​	35.56​	32.6​
​	​	26.3​	​	​	​	38.6​
​	​	23.6​	​	​	​	35.2​
​	​	23.4​	​	​	​	39.1​
​	​	160.4​	​	​	​	38.1​
​	​	170.4​	​	​	​	35.4​
​	​	150.1​	​	​	​	31.9​
​	​	154.6​	​	​	​	33.4​
​	​	83.5​	​	​	​	43.1​
​	​	70.6​	​	​	​	33.2​

Wait, so Fiio balance foams are denser than bass foam, according to the measurements?

 

[ttorbic]

I. Must. Resist. The. Checkout. Button.

Also, just adding my two cents to the foam discussion: I've tried it on my two earbuds and didn't really like the results (I prefer the foams used for the tuning by the DIYers), but I'm willing to experiment a bit more for the sake of experimentation. I do agree a bit @o0genesis0o in that I don't wanna faff with foam rolling like I had to with tip rolling for IEMs. I just end up with a plastic container full of tips I don't use in the end, and it does feel a bit like I'm looking for the white whale.