[mt877]

Wait, so Fiio balance foams are denser than bass foam, according to the measurements?

The numbers would indicate that some of the foams appear to be denser, not all. Other foams in the balanced and bass are equal.

Edit: These are measurements from the foams I received, the bag of foams you received may get different results.

Edit: I'm thinking I might do the measurements again and pair off foams which have the same measurements. I don't want to use a denser foam and a less dense foam and have some difference in sound from each side. Human hearing is sensitive, but is our hearing so sensitive that it can determine slight differences in foam densities?

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Just got a late Saturday package with some goodies: Yinman 600 2.0, VE Sun Dice, VE Asura 3.0FE, Copper shelled 80ohm LCP bud (from NSC Audio DIY Store on AliExpress), *.*.*.*.*.*. PT2022 in 365 and 147ohm (thought it would be fun to compare differences as these were the two versions I found praised).

Not sure when I will get around to trying this stuff out as I have been doing a lot of listening to my band's tracks and picking stuff out for a tryout meeting we're having with a new producer we might be working with. I will post thoughts as I try them out though like I did with the last group.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Human hearing is sensitive, but is our hearing so sensitive that it can determine slight differences in foam densities?

I noticed a strange phenomenon when modding IEM: my ears are sensitive to things going wrong, but only if they cross a certain boundary to uncanny or harsh level. If they stay within an “adjustable” zone, I couldn’t hear anything wrong. Folks who can hear a tiny bit lacking at 6k or a db too much at 500hz must have unusual aural training

For example, something like the Meze Advar is very sensitive to tips and mods because it’s 8k is already near the harsh level. For other IEMs? Meh, tips do not make or break an IEM for me. To my ears, FF3 is there at the border. A bit more or less upper mid can push it across.

 

[o0genesis0o]

VE Asura 3.0FE

Looking forward to this one. Couldn’t find many reviews on it. I was thinking about getting the megatron bundle with this one.

Btw, good luck with your band stuff. I don’t know anything about music industry, but it sounds critical.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Btw, good luck with your band stuff. I don’t know anything about music industry, but it sounds critical.

Thanks man! Basically, our record company asked us if we had an producers in mind that we would like to work with on our new album and we put together a few choices. A couple of the picks we obviously had no real expectation of getting, but one of them got back to the rep at our label and said he's a fan and wants to meet at a studio on Monday and Tuesday to see if we'd all like to work together.

I'm pretty stoked because the guy is one of the best artist/producers in indie rock for the last 15 years or so. He's kinda legendary for turning out sick records in our style and he has enough demand that he picks who he wants to work with. With many producers it's just a hiring process where your label offers to pay their fee and it's done. This dude has enough money and can work with anyone he wants so it's more of a mutual tryout process. Everyone wants to bring their best stuff to the table so I'm doing so overtime and compiling all the best takes my band has put together of the stuff we're currently working on. Fingers crossed that it works out.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Thanks man! Basically, our record company asked us if we had an producers in mind that we would like to work with on our new album and we put together a few choices. A couple of the picks we obviously had no real expectation of getting, but one of them got back the rep at our label and said he's a fan and wants to meet at a studio on Monday and Tuesday to see if we'd all like to work together.

I'm pretty stoked because the guy is one of the best artist/producers in indie rock for the last 15 years or so. He's kinda legendary for turning out sick records in our style and he has enough demand that he picks who he wants to work with. With many producers it's just a hiring process where your label offers to pay their fee and it's done. This dude has enough money and can work with anyone he wants so it's more of a mutual tryout process. Everyone wants to bring their best stuff to the table so I'm doing so overtime and compiling all the best takes my band has put together of the stuff we're currently working on. Fingers crossed that it works out.

Sound like you are at the top of your game. Very much admired. Best of lucks

 

[Ronion]

Funny you guys are talking about the FF3 foams. As an exercise to determine foam density I decided to measure the various earbud foams I have on hand.

I have various colors of foams, but only measured the black ones for consistency.

So how did I do it? I took a calibrated luminance meter and a light board for viewing photographic slides and measured the light passing through each foam, not through a single layer of the foam, but through the entire foam with hole side up. I did not measure donut foams due to light passing through without being filtered by a layer of foam. To be consistent with the measurements I masked off a section of the light board to the size of a typical foam and centered each foam in the masked off area and then centered and pressed my luminance meter's nozzle on the foam (which was a perfect fit). The base measurement of my light board was 1238 cd/m2 (candela per meter squared). The values in the table are cd/m2 values after the light was filtered through each foam. Each foam was new and unused. A used foam would have been stretched out, so I'm not sure if used foams would have provided more accurate data. Needless to say that I was not going to use all my foams and stretch them out for the sake of my curiosity, so these measurements will have to suffice.

How to interpret the data. Lower number means less light passed through the foam which would indicate higher foam density. The FF3 balanced and bass foam measurements were surprising. I measured the foams as supplied in their labeled bags. The VE foams were some of the lowest density foams, but there were several that blocked more light. The higher density VE foams were in the same bag along with higher density colored foams, so not sure if VE foams are all supposed to be thin or if they also include thicker foams as well(?). From the numbers, it looks like VE may give you 3 thicknesses of foams, but I'm not 100% sure if that is an accurate statement either. The No Name foams came from a couple sources and have been segregated in their original plastic bags since I got them.

So how does one accurately measure foam density? I guess what I did was a reasonable attempt which gave some numerical data, anyway it was a fun exercise.

Enjoy.

Here's the results:

FF3 Balanced​	FF3 Bass​	VE Black​	Hiegi Black​	No Name Black #1​	No Name Black #2​	No Name Black #3​
29.8​	35.5​	117.6​	39.7​	20.2​	42.2​	59.8​
23​	32.5​	129.1​	29.4​	21.4​	50.3​	39.1​
51​	35.4​	73.2​	32.3​	20.9​	47.6​	35.3​
28.4​	34.4​	84.2​	32.7​	13.8​	37​	32.1​
33.5​	35.6​	130.4​	23.8​	23.9​	16.3​	33.9​
34.1​	42.9​	125.6​	23.1​	22.6​	42.7​	40.7​
36.2​	31.2​	72.2​	23.7​	25.1​	35.7​	30.8​
38.3​	46.1​	83.7​	28.3​	22.8​	39.8​	34.8​
43.2​	40.5​	180.6​	19.1​	16.2​	41​	27.1​
51.6​	40.1​	171.1​	32.3​	​	16.4​	39.6​
44.9​	36.3​	140.3​	30.2​	​	7.73​	30.5​
32.1​	44.6​	173.8​	24.4​	​	8.95​	34.3​
​	​	28.2​	​	​	35.56​	32.6​
​	​	26.3​	​	​	​	38.6​
​	​	23.6​	​	​	​	35.2​
​	​	23.4​	​	​	​	39.1​
​	​	160.4​	​	​	​	38.1​
​	​	170.4​	​	​	​	35.4​
​	​	150.1​	​	​	​	31.9​
​	​	154.6​	​	​	​	33.4​
​	​	83.5​	​	​	​	43.1​
​	​	70.6​	​	​	​	33.2​

Okay, who wants to calculate the average and spread? I will start. VE definitely throws in different densities and it looks like their densities are distinct and perhaps more consistent than the others.
balanced AVG: 37.175 Spread: 23-51.6
Bass AVG: 37.9. Spread: 31.2-46.1
HieGi AVG: 28.25 Spread: 19.1-39.7

Those average numbers are consistent with my visual inspection.

 

[mt877]

Okay, who wants to calculate the average and spread? I will start. VE definitely throws in different densities and it looks like their densities are distinct and perhaps more consistent than the others.
balanced AVG: 37.175 Spread: 23-51.6
Bass AVG: 37.9. Spread: 31.2-46.1
HieGi AVG: 28.25 Spread: 19.1-39.7

Those average numbers are consistent with my visual inspection.

Nice! If using the averages of the balanced and bass, would give the same sound profile. It would appear that the only thing that is consistent is that the FF3 foams appear to have inconsistent densities. I guess if you want FF3 bass go with the HieGi, if you want a somewhat balanced signature go with something in the 40 to 50 ** range, if you want something brighter use the VE low density and the brightest use donut foams.

** Your own measurements would be different then mine, but the chart at least shows a trend.

Edit: So would you match up foams to have consistent left and right channels knowing what you know now?

 

[Ronion]

Nice! If using the averages of the balanced and bass, would give the same sound profile. It would appear that the only thing that is consistent is that the FF3 foams appear to have inconsistent densities. I guess if you want FF3 bass go with the HieGi, if you want a somewhat balanced signature go with something in the 40 to 50 ** range, if you want something brighter use the VE low density and the brightest use donut foams.

** Your own measurements would be different then mine, but the chart at least shows a trend.

The thing is that my own measurements consistently show the thinner (I’m not sure which) VE foams add both deep bass and sibilant treble and that HeiGi consistently show reduced deep bass and sibilants region treble. I’ve measured them on several buds with consistent results in area affected regions but to various degrees. IOW, some buds it’s been 2dB, some 4. That could just be foam density variability.

HeiGi definitely feel the nicest to my ears FWIW, but everything other than the Trig Rain feels nice enough.

I’ve only measured 2 Bass foams (L+R) and 1 Balanced foam and they sort of measured how FiiO named them. Visually, I can’t tell the difference at all. It makes it challenging to know which is which once you removed them and there’s a chance I got the wrong one on one of my Bass measurements. Since the measurement was consistent with what I hoped for, I assumed I got the right one, but who knows now. The Bass foams got considerably more bassy after use.

 

[mt877]

The thing is that my own measurements consistently show the thinner (I’m not sure which) VE foams add both deep bass and sibilant treble and that HeiGi consistently show reduced deep bass and sibilants region treble. I’ve measured them on several buds with consistent results in area affected regions but to various degrees. IOW, some buds it’s been 2dB, some 4. That could just be foam density variability.

HeiGi definitely feel the nicest to my ears FWIW, but everything other than the Trig Rain feels nice enough.

I’ve only measured 2 Bass foams (L+R) and 1 Balanced foam and they sort of measured how FiiO named them. Visually, I can’t tell the difference at all. It makes it challenging to know which is which once you removed them and there’s a chance I got the wrong one on one of my Bass measurements. Since the measurement was consistent with what I hoped for, I assumed I got the right one, but who knows now. The Bass foams got considerably more bassy after use.

You had suggested to me to try the VE foams in a previous post. I just received them yesterday but not tried them yet. Will give them a go and see how they change the sound signature of the FF3. I started with FF3 balanced, switched to donut, back to balanced... maybe the VE low, medium or high density will be the one(s). LOL.

 

[samandhi]

Why is this a con? That's like saying it's a con that his DAP changes its tonality and performance so much with each amp card. To me the fact that the FF3s are easy to tune by using different foams is an attribute that makes them more versatile to the owner. For every kind of foam that came with them and every aftermarket foam I acquire I essentially have a different earbud. Sure, some of those tunings will be more to my tastes than others, but I just don't see how having a bud that allows you to shape it's sonic properties with a technique as easy as foam rolling is a con. I guess we just have different perspectives.

Let me put it this way. Everytime you have foam rolled on an earbud in the past and were unable to achieve annoticeable or usable result I'm sure you thought it was a con that the bud was unable to be changed much from a flawed stock tuning. So now that you have an earbud that's offering you that tuning versatility and just begging for you to explore foam combos you're gonna hold that against the buds too? What should a manufacturer do to get foam rollable tuning to be a pro in your book? I'll bet you're a difficult guy to please...

Con is not “too flexible” but like this: “resolving but shouty with donut foam, not shouty but not outstandingly resolving with full foams”. I wish there is a middle ground, though I guess Fiio pushes the ear gain a bit in case people to use foam.

Speaking of difficult, have you seen the position of the expensive Solaris 2020 in my ranking list

I definitely see merit in both points here. Whether you call it a "con" or not isn't the point for me though. I see it as neither a con nor a plus. I simply was shocked at the amount of difference my ears picked up from one set to another (or none at all). But it really is like having multiple different earbuds in one. Depending on how much you like to tinker or not, this COULD be seen as a con or a plus, and both would be right (again, depending on the point of view).

One great aspect is that I CAN wear them "naked" (the buds, not me , though I suppose the other way around is possible too just not the point) and don't budge despite having very "slippery" and fairly heavy metal (ahh, see what I did there? And I wasn't even trying hehe) much like the Chaconne (which DON'T stay put very well even with foams + earhooks).

I. Must. Resist. The. Checkout. Button.

Also, just adding my two cents to the foam discussion: I've tried it on my two earbuds and didn't really like the results (I prefer the foams used for the tuning by the DIYers), but I'm willing to experiment a bit more for the sake of experimentation. I do agree a bit @o0genesis0o in that I don't wanna faff with foam rolling like I had to with tip rolling for IEMs. I just end up with a plastic container full of tips I don't use in the end, and it does feel a bit like I'm looking for the white whale.

That is the mistake I made with the FF3. I went straight for the "bass" foams thinking that while the labeling is great and all, I have never heard that much of a difference to matter up to this point. I was wrong.

Maybe I will try the bass foams on the Maria II and see if I can rid myself of that banshee scream that they emit?! I'm glad that FiiO saw fit to include a bunch of each type.

 

[Ronion]

These are my latest that do really well with dense, likely HeiGi foams. I posted the graph a few pages back. Well worth $20 and a few minutes of time. Can make phone calls too and a 1V dongle is at least enough. Neutral with just a touch of bright, sweet, dynamic and extended. Not much else to say.

You’ll notice that I make them plain. Not fancy like my old measurement rig

 

[o0genesis0o]

These are my latest that do really well with dense, likely HeiGi foams. I posted the graph a few pages back. Well worth $20 and a few minutes of time. Can make phone calls too and a 1V dongle is at least enough. Neutral with just a touch of bright, sweet, dynamic and extended. Not much else to say.
You’ll notice that I make them plain. Not fancy like my old measurement rig

Assuming that your graph accurately captures the real life tonality of the ear buds, I would say they are excellent. Something I would buy for sure. Except the bass, I think it traces my preference target closely, down to the dip around 1k and 3k for soundstage depth. A bit sad about the treble though. We need to bump those 15k-up frequencies, 64 Audio TIA style. (Alright, I wouldn't shut up about TIA treble until I get U12t or Trio )

 

[assassin10000]

I wish there is a middle ground, though I guess Fiio pushes the ear gain a bit in case people to use foam.

See below.

I make my own offset hole ones, lines the sound output up with the ear canal.

 

[o0genesis0o]

See below.

That's smart. I should try. What is that stick thing?