[JAnonymous5150]

Excellent reply, mate. Thanks for the insight. I need to dig out some Dr. Chesky records to hear proper drums again.

Edit: So I just dug out the dynamic compression tests of Dr. Chesky. And now I feel embarrassed that I couldn't hear the compression in the video clip before

Identifying compression on an instrument you don't play can be pretty difficult. I have been doing studio work since I was a teenager and I still have trouble identifying compression levels on some instruments, especially on recordings from genres I have never been involved in recording.

You'd be surprised how many people mention things like compression or refer to the poor mixing and mastering of a track who, when asked to point out what specifically they're talking about or to define it, clearly know next to nothing about the topic. Also, between compression, digital drum tracks, samples, and drum triggers there are many people who have almost no concept of what percussion instruments sound like naturally.

I commend you for trying to find material that will let you judge the difference. That's going further than most people would.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Ooooh what a great reply! Can I ask for your thoughts on this recording?

Do the cymbals sound natural? I thought it wasn't too bad, but I understand it is on Spotify (so not lossless) and I'm no drummer.

P.S. I'm a jazz fan and just love this whole album. Any other jazz fans on here?

This is a wonderful example of natural drum sounds. Almost any recording, especially a lossy version, will have some dynamic compression, but because of the nature of jazz production techniques it's the genre that tends to most commonly display drums as they were meant to be heard.

As for being a jazz fan, I'm a huge one. Not only am I a jazz trained drummer, but I have also been playing jazz saxophone since I was five. My mom told me that if I wanted drum lessons then I had to learn a non-percussion instrument of my choice as payment to her for the drums lol! She always said it was to make sure my musical education was well rounded, but I think she was hoping I would end up picking saxophone over druma so she wouldn't have to spend her life listening to hours long drum practice sessions. Sorry, mom!

Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Cannonball Adderley, Chet Baker, Buddy Rich, Max Roach, Count Bassie, Miles Davis, Lenny Pickett, Thelonius Monk, Charles Mingus...I could keep going, but I think you get the drift. Everything but Kenny G and smooth jazz lol! If I had been able to make as much money doing session work playing saxophone as I did drumming, I might have ended up being a primarily a saxophonist now. TBH though, I am a pretty good sax player, but I am a much better, more well rounded drummer. If it wasn't for the music theory I studied to help with sax improvisation, I wouldn't be the songwriter for my band though and I wouldn't be nearly as good of a drummer.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

This is a question for all the folks who own earbuds, headphones, and IEMs: what's the % of listening time split between the three? I sold my Sundara after getting the Alter Rider 1 because 1. Earbuds were much comfier, 2. Much more portable, 3. Staging was competitive and timbre was very good. But now I have a handful of IEMs that aren't getting much use either! So overall, would probably be 75:25 split in favour of earbuds, and would've been higher if I didn't have a noisy open plan office

If I take my studio time and live performance monitoring out of it: 50% headphones, 35% earbuds, 15% IEMs. For the last week to 10 days that I have been demoing all the headphone and earbud orders I had stacked up it has been more like 50% headphones, 45% earbuds, and 5% IEMs. I'm interested to see how it shakes out when my listening habits return to normal with no demos involved and it just comes down to preference and use case.

 

[ttorbic]

This is a wonderful example of natural drum sounds. Almost any recording, especially a lossy version, will have some dynamic compression, but because of the nature of jazz production techniques it's the genre that tends to most commonly display drums as they were meant to be heard.

As for being a jazz fan, I'm a huge one. Not only am I a jazz trained drummer, but I have also been playing jazz saxophone since I was five. My mom told me that if I wanted drum lessons then I had to learn a non-percussion instrument of my choice as payment to her for the drums lol! She always said it was to make sure my musical education was well rounded, but I think she was hoping I would end up picking saxophone over druma so she wouldn't have to spend her life listening to hours long drum practice sessions. Sorry, mom!

Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Cannonball Adderley, Chet Baker, Buddy Rich, Max Roach, Count Bassie, Miles Davis, Lenny Pickett, Thelonius Monk, Charles Mingus...I could keep going, but I think you get the drift. Everything but Kenny G and smooth jazz lol! If I had been able to make as much money doing session work playing saxophone as I did drumming, I might have ended up being a primarily a saxophonist now. TBH though, I am a pretty good sax player, but I am a much better, more well rounded drummer. If it wasn't for the music theory I studied to help with sax improvisation, I wouldn't be the songwriter for my band though and I wouldn't be nearly as good of a drummer.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

I love Paul Desmond's A Taste of Honey, although not sure if that sounds as smooth jazz lol. And Coleman Hawkins :

 

[ttorbic]

Zeos (I'm ambivalent, but he's funny to listen to while I do dishes), just reviewed the Sivga M200 and FF3:


I like that he shows the ear mould and what types of fit you can get with earbuds!

 

[samandhi]

So, I got my FF3 today. I have been listening for a couple of hours to them (4.4mm balanced out of DX300 Amp12 card). The following will be my first impressions:

First, for those that have complained about the cable, looking at the quick-start manual, it appears that they were initially intended to have an MMCX cable (or at the very least it was talked about enough to have it printed in the manual) as seen from one of the pages here:

Spoiler: FiiO FF3 Quick Start Manual

You can see that clearly this wasn't just some "reprint" from an IEM manual, that this is definitely an earbud on the pages (even though they refer to them as "earphones" in the text). Maybe they had a third party print the manual, and they just didn't know one way or the other?! Or, maybe this is a hint of what is to come with the FF5?!

These will definitely be kept in my camp as a very "unique" sound! If I HAD to use one word to describe the sound that I hear on these, I would say smooth. There just isn't anything about any of the frequencies that are too aggressive even though they are a mid forward presentation. Now that doesn't mean that they sound TOO relaxed in any one thing IMO (except maybe with some classic rock, i.e., Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama). But I have to say that I think that we just might have a new King of "big soundstage" here.

For example, listening to the song Walking On The Moon - The Police reveals some huge staging. Stewart Copeland (fantastic drummer IMO) plays a rim strike for pretty much the entire song and while the actual strike is front and center, the reverb/echo added to this is simply everywhere around me. I am loving it!

Layering seems to be very good, except on really busy tracks. For instance, the song Astor Place - Scandroid sounds a bit congested. Though I have not run across too many that exhibit this on these so far. We'll see.

These have a nice warm sound to them. I would call the overall signature an "n". The bass lacks a bit of slam, but is definitely present and doesn't seem overly boosted or recessed so tonality isn't unnatural. Treble is not spikey IMO, and is clear enough to hear some nice micro details. One of the biggest things for me is the pina gain region. It is there (which it needs to be IMO) but is not boosted so much as to hurt my ears. Great job FiiO!

I have a lot more thoughts on these, but I don't want to speak before I am sure, because everything could change with more listening sessions (rather than simply making judgement based on one song). Having said all of that, the mixture of their particular DNA make these a really great pair of buds. There is something addicting about the sound I am hearing so far.

Spoiler: FiiO FF3 Pictures

Edit: OH BTW! I forgot to mention that these probably fit (and stay) better than any buds I currently own (except the ST10S, but those are over ear).

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Right here, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. Acoustic music is what led me down this rabbit hole in the first place!

(No complaints, because it was really trading one rabbit hole for another, after already trading the headphone rabbit hole for the IEM rabbit hole. I think I'm finally home now!)

Quick jazz story while we're talking about it. I met Kareem Abdul Jabbar at the Edgar Awards banquet a couple of years ago. (Among everything else, he also co-wrote two books in the Sherlock Holmes universe.) I already knew that he was a very thoughtful and reserved man, which is a hell of thing to be when you're over seven feet tall and everyone in the world knows who you are. I was sure that most people who meet him go right to basketball, or even some dumb joke about how freaking tall he is, so I shook his hand and said, "What's your favorite jazz club in New York City?"

That led into a long conversation about the Blue Note, Village Vanguard, Iridium, etc. I think he ended up feeling more at home, and it was a real kick for me, too. And it made the world feel a little smaller.

Kareem was part owner of a jazz club in LA named Lix that was around for a while. It has been closed for at 15 years at this point though. I actually played there once with a jazz act I used to drum for and got to meet him and Reggie Miller who is also a big jazz fan. The club used to get a lot of good acts because Kareem and his record producer co-owner had pull, but the atmosphere and setup was a bit gimmicky, trying too hard to be a speakeasy, and that was eventually the club's downfall.

 

[ttorbic]

So, I got my FF3 today. I have been listening for a couple of hours to them (4.4mm balanced out of DX300 Amp12 card). The following will be my first impressions:

First, for those that have complained about the cable, looking at the quick-start manual, it appears that they were initially intended to have an MMCX cable (or at the very least it was talked about enough to have it printed in the manual) as seen from one of the pages here:

Spoiler: FiiO FF3 Quick Start Manual

You can see that clearly this wasn't just some "reprint" from an IEM manual, that this is definitely an earbud on the pages (even though they refer to them as "earphones" in the text). Maybe they had a third party print the manual, and they just didn't know one way or the other?! Or, maybe this is a hint of what is to come with the FF5?!

These will definitely be kept in my camp as a very "unique" sound! If I HAD to use one word to describe the sound that I hear on these, I would say smooth. There just isn't anything about any of the frequencies that are too aggressive even though they are a mid forward presentation. Now that doesn't mean that they sound TOO relaxed in any one thing IMO (except maybe with some classic rock, i.e., Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama). But I have to say that I think that we just might have a new King of "big soundstage" here.

For example, listening to the song Walking On The Moon - The Police reveals some huge staging. Stewart Copeland (fantastic drummer IMO) plays a rim strike for pretty much the entire song and while the actual strike is front and center, the reverb/echo added to this is simply everywhere around me. I am loving it!

Layering seems to be very good, except on really busy tracks. For instance, the song Astor Place - Scandroid sounds a bit congested. Though I have not run across too many that exhibit this on these so far. We'll see.

These have a nice warm sound to them. I would call the overall signature an "n". The bass lacks a bit of slam, but is definitely present and doesn't seem overly boosted or recessed so tonality isn't unnatural. Treble is not spikey IMO, and is clear enough to hear some nice micro details. One of the biggest things for me is the pina gain region. It is there (which it needs to be IMO) but is not boosted so much as to hurt my ears. Great job FiiO!

I have a lot more thoughts on these, but I don't want to speak before I am sure, because everything could change with more listening sessions (rather than simply making judgement based on one song). Having said all of that, the mixture of their particular DNA make these a really great pair of buds. There is something addicting about the sound I am hearing so far.

Spoiler: FiiO FF3 Pictures

Edit: OH BTW! I forgot to mention that these probably fit (and stay) better than any buds I currently own (except the ST10S, but those are over ear).

I am trying so hard to resist another earbud I don't have a beryllium-coated earbud though, so maybe that's the justification I need (but see below lol).

It's interesting you say that (i know i know, initial impressions) it can get congested on busy tracks - i thought beryllium DDs were renowned for their speed? I mean, I've always been skeptical of manufacturers claiming that beryllium-coated DDs deliver a perceivable difference in sound due to the material properties of pure beryllium, but there are folks who swear by the speed of Be drivers, so...

 

[silverszi]

I've
been looking at diy earbuds and how current shells fit into my ears
and
now I want to make my own shells
this is what it has come to.
Specifically, all of the major shells are too large to give me good bass because they're too big for my ears and wont get stuck on the ear canal, however to maintain compatibility with common drivers I'd have to make sure there's space for the driver in the shell so my only real choice would be to make a design that has a sort of nozzle and that means either paying someone else to design and produce it for me, crying and/or designing and producing it myself.
And I havent even sourced a driver yet.

 

[FranQL]

I am trying so hard to resist another earbud I don't have a beryllium-coated earbud though, so maybe that's the justification I need (but see below lol).

It's interesting you say that (i know i know, initial impressions) it can get congested on busy tracks - i thought beryllium DDs were renowned for their speed? I mean, I've always been skeptical of manufacturers claiming that beryllium-coated DDs deliver a perceivable difference in sound due to the material properties of pure beryllium, but there are folks who swear by the speed of Be drivers, so...

yes, the next thing is the mithril coating, facing the trends stay with what the hypes indicate: newer is always better, now there is the gold coating, blue pet, etc, etc... maybe we will see the condom fabric diaphragm... I don't know.

but if I know what sounds good to my ears regardless of trends and I stick with it, I'm not obsessed with what the experts say, in fact I use them to listen to music, I don't listen to music to analyze a bud

In each impedance I have a favorite and curiously, each one is from a different compound, which gives me the certainty that there is no king compound, you just have to take advantage of the variety to enjoy its sound.

 

[ttorbic]

yes, the next thing is the mithril coating, facing the trends stay with what the hypes indicate: newer is always better, now there is the gold coating, blue pet, etc, etc... maybe we will see the condom fabric diaphragm... I don't know.

but if I know what sounds good to my ears regardless of trends and I stick with it, I'm not obsessed with what the experts say, in fact I use them to listen to music, I don't listen to music to analyze a bud

I would love me some mithril-coated drivers

 

[mt877]

I've
been looking at diy earbuds and how current shells fit into my ears
and
now I want to make my own shells
this is what it has come to.
Specifically, all of the major shells are too large to give me good bass because they're too big for my ears and wont get stuck on the ear canal, however to maintain compatibility with common drivers I'd have to make sure there's space for the driver in the shell so my only real choice would be to make a design that has a sort of nozzle and that means either paying someone else to design and produce it for me, crying and/or designing and producing it myself.
And I havent even sourced a driver yet.

Yurbuds earbuds slip-on silicone nozzles? Maybe they'll work for you?

Spoiler: Yurbuds slicone nozzles

Edit: I don't think the Yurbuds brand of earbuds is made anymore, but apparently you can still find them for sale on ebay and amazon. They made smaller buds marketed for female ears, so a search for "Yurbuds + female" might yield some results. Anyway, hope that helps.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

So, I got my FF3 today. I have been listening for a couple of hours to them (4.4mm balanced out of DX300 Amp12 card). The following will be my first impressions:

First, for those that have complained about the cable, looking at the quick-start manual, it appears that they were initially intended to have an MMCX cable (or at the very least it was talked about enough to have it printed in the manual) as seen from one of the pages here:

Spoiler: FiiO FF3 Quick Start Manual

You can see that clearly this wasn't just some "reprint" from an IEM manual, that this is definitely an earbud on the pages (even though they refer to them as "earphones" in the text). Maybe they had a third party print the manual, and they just didn't know one way or the other?! Or, maybe this is a hint of what is to come with the FF5?!

The same manual will be used with the FiiO FF5 MMCX model when it releases here next month (Q3).

 

[WoodyLuvr]

The Earbuds God-Father's latest creation:

Planar Magnetic Earbud DIY V3 by @ClieOS

His creativity abounds. I am too excited for this next installment in his Planar Flathead R&D journey. Mad skills to say the least, yes?!

 

[o0genesis0o]

I am trying so hard to resist another earbud I don't have a beryllium-coated earbud though, so maybe that's the justification I need (but see below lol).

It's interesting you say that (i know i know, initial impressions) it can get congested on busy tracks - i thought beryllium DDs were renowned for their speed? I mean, I've always been skeptical of manufacturers claiming that beryllium-coated DDs deliver a perceivable difference in sound due to the material properties of pure beryllium, but there are folks who swear by the speed of Be drivers, so...

Tom from Dunu explained about these Be coated drivers in an interview. Essentially, some drivers are good but some have too little coating that it does not matter. Pure Be on the other hand can be difficult to use to build drivers (high failure rate, I remember), so they tend to be more expensive.

Personally, I have no congestion problem with large orchestral pieces, but I don’t listen to very fast metal music either. I found FF3 not “crisp” as my Andromeda in the same track, but not muffled or muddy either. It is within the ballpark of Blessing 2 (good) rather than Andromeda /U12t/Z1r (outstanding).