[The3DCie]

I mostly listen to spotify these days, to be honest. After losing my library due to hard drive failure quite a while ago, the convenience is just nice.
Would you say EQ'ing via Sam L's profiles is a good first step before I consider getting an amp/dac?

Also, I noticed that in your previous post the bluetooth devices your reccommended tend to hover around 100 dollar (which translates into around 120 euro, unfortunately). Are lower prices options also worth considering? I'm thinking of stuff like the Fiio uBTR around 30 euro and that apple dongle around 10. Those are the only two I know of though, I might be missing other great options. I did order a sonata hd pro as I mentioned, but it arrived defective so I never got to use it.

Frankly, I know other will probably disagree as they keep advise for powerful (and, of course, pricier) DAP/DAC/AMP but I can confirm, at least to my ears (and keeping in mind I'm listening at low volumes), that even uBTR is able to drive all the buds I have (as already mentionned I don't own 200-600 ohms earbuds, though, on purpose...), without any problem and with a delightful sound quality, more than enough to enjoy any music!

If you want to have more room for more demanding earbuds, you can try Shanling UP2, which is around $70 I think, and is much more powerful already.

 

[The3DCie]

Do you have a recommendation for a relatively good lightning-port DAC that is small, something like the image below. And that is a significant upgrade to the iPhone internal DAC?

I think I remember a long post somewhere (was it on Reddit?) that did measure Apple dongle, just to discover that it was among the best one can find on the market!
Not to say it can't be improved or that there is no need for more power, but I wouldn't dismiss Apple dongle so quickly.

 

[Sam L]

I was actually just in the process of installing wavelet. I've only used it for my KSC75 right now. But wow, the difference is really noticeable. They just sound a lot fuller right off the bat. I'm already stoked to use it on my different earbuds.
I'm totally going to look for an option on my PC as well for EQ. If the difference on my HD555's is the same as on the KSC75 right now, I'm going to feel real silly about not looking into this sooner.

a lot of us use peace gui for apo equalizer. Peace allows point and click importing of PEQ files and the "compress" feature is similar to wavelet's "eq strength". Peace and APO are free.

 

[RikudouGoku]

I think I remember a long post somewhere (was it on Reddit?) that did measure Apple dongle, just to discover that it was among the best one can find on the market!
Not to say it can't be improved or that there is no need for more power, but I wouldn't dismiss Apple dongle so quickly.

yeah, the apple dongle is actually a good dac. BUT, the important part is the amp which isnt anything special on the apple dongle and is the reason why I rec stuff that is a bit pricy since they are quite powerful.
Because dacs dont make a difference in sound at all.

(tested the dacs in the Ibasso DX160, Fiio M11, LG G7, Topping E30 with the jds ol switch that allows switching between sources in an instant)

 

[The3DCie]

the x6 are excellent buds and are well-tuned stock. but honestly, they don't come near the compensated datura pro. However, I'd recommend them for your use case (iPod shuffle)

Thanks! Between you and @RikudouGoku I think it will be hard to pass on this one!

We had a very heated discussion yesterday. We overheated this forum in a short period of time

Ha ha, yeah that was fun, let the temperature raise for a moment, it's so cold outside!

Ok, I've just read through 6 or 7 pages, trying to catch up on posts in this thread before I got to your post. I'm going to respond because you've ordered some awesome buds with good stock tuning (rw9 and x6), and you're also considering higher tier buds, like the EM5 (which I own and have listened to extensively (since release) after burning them in for a full 200 hours, per @ClieOS recommendation.)

I'm going to weigh in here with my opinion regarding EQ and also try to bring some clarity as to what my approach is with earbuds.

I realize historically "audiophiles" disdain EQ'ing their audio equipment, especially at the termination of their audio chain. To @RikudouGoku's point, there are a number of things "audiophiles" utilize that are fundamentally "eq'ing" their sound -- from bass boost, to installing acoustic foam in their listening rooms, to spending tons of money on cables and tube amps. All of these things add coloration to the sound in a manner that is specific to the "audiophile's" listening tastes. They are equalizing the sound to an expectation in their mind. That said, there are the few "purists," like @Alex.Grimm, do whatever it takes to maintain a level of purity through out their entire chain. This is hard to do and requires a lot of money to pull off well. I was this sort of "purist" years ago but gave up quickly since the amount of money it would take to match my ears with the expectations of playing in symphony orchestras for 10+ years would have required around $150k in equipment and retrofitting my room.

So let's be clear, most "audiophiles" do not have a problem with the fundamental concept of EQ -- they have issues with software-based EQ.

And I get it, to the mind of the "purist" software alterations to sound is more troubling than hardware influences to sound. You'll never hear me argue that software eq is the better approach, even though it is. j/k (I couldn't resist adding a bit of levity to this topic)

I'm a strong proponent for software EQ. A good number of audiophiles will never accept that and I'm ok with that. I likely won't ever convince them to see otherwise and that doesn't bother me. I'm more focused on trying to encourage new fans of earbuds to hear the possibility of jaw-dropping sound quality because of EQ to really affordable buds. By the way, @furyossa is not the software EQ freak that I am -- he's a bit of both worlds and has one foot in the hardware side of things and another foot in the software "world."

There are users here who will never accept software EQ. I think this also has to do with their typical daily source usage. In my case, all my listening is done on the following devices: Pixel 4a 5g, Pixel 4XL (likely will be trading in for a Samsung S21 via the t-mobile $800 credit deal!), Note 10, Sony nw-a105, windows laptop, windows desktop, and older MacBook pro.

Why I am a big proponent of EQ'ing earbuds:
1. With my compensation files, it's easy to maintain consistency across various platforms and sources. It is also restrictive, for many users, sadly. (ie. iPhone users.)
2. Compensation files allow for quick, easy experimentation with various target curves. Click one file, click another, etc.
3. The improvement can be dramatic, especially with some earbud drivers. ie. datura pro.

Last words....
EQ'ing can be a pretty daunting task in and of itself. If I didn't have measuring equipment, I'd be lost completely. There are so many synergies and unpredictable elements as to how changes in one part of the FR affects others. A big motivation for my work is two-fold:

1. Trying to understand if there can be a rough target that improves the sound of earbuds, ala harman target, oratory1990, toranku, diffuse-field, etc.
2. Take the heavy lifting out of what sounds great and allow users to quickly improve their earbuds and make the more specific adjustments themselves.

Quoted for full agreement, a great explanation, thanks for taking the time to write this!

 

[furyossa]

a lot of us use peace gui for apo equalizer. Peace allows point and click importing of PEQ files and the "compress" feature is similar to wavelet's "eq strength". Peace and APO are free.

Not only are they free, but the functionality itself is at a high level. They offer a lot of options, and it's very easy to use. Interface seems a little out of date but for free EQ is perfect

 

[The3DCie]

Don't be sad, all this is just a hobby and I'm sure @furyossa wasn't joking at you for your English (we are a lot here for which English isn't our native language, and it doesn't affect the way we share our passion for music!), just finding a funny analogy to cool down the temperature in the middle of our heated discussion!

I was actually just in the process of installing wavelet. I've only used it for my KSC75 right now. But wow, the difference is really noticeable. They just sound a lot fuller right off the bat. I'm already stoked to use it on my different earbuds.
I'm totally going to look for an option on my PC as well for EQ. If the difference on my HD555's is the same as on the KSC75 right now, I'm going to feel real silly about not looking into this sooner.

You don't have to feel silly for discovering new things!
In fact we all discover or learn new things everyday, the right behavior is to be open minded about those new things and that's exactly what you're doing.

yeah, the apple dongle is actually a good dac. BUT, the important part is the amp which isnt anything special on the apple dongle and is the reason why I rec stuff that is a bit pricy since they are quite powerful.
Because dacs dont make a difference in sound at all.

(tested the dacs in the Ibasso DX160, Fiio M11, LG G7, Topping E30 with the jds ol switch that allows switching between sources in an instant)

Yeah, you're right about power being the most important thing and I'm sure that the Apple dongle isn't the best in this case, probably far from it even.
In that case I would use a small amp, like Xduoo XQ10, extremely lightweight and small, while bringing a good amount of power (100 mW @ 32 ohms IIRC), and all that for a whoping $35!

 

[furyossa]

(tested the dacs in the Ibasso DX160, Fiio M11, LG G7, Topping E30 with the jds ol switch that allows switching between sources in an instant)

Functionality and feature wise which one you prefer DX160 or M11?

 

[The3DCie]

Between Yincrow and jcally, which is your favorite?

Even though I keep spinning the green toneking.

Edit: I just saw that JCALLY is 16mm, that's really big.

Well, I would say both!

Ok, I know it's not the answer you were waiting for so let me develop a bit.

JCALLY EP-05 are more "WOW" earbuds, in the sense they have big bass (but well controlled to my ears, not overwhelming or boomy, and great clarity throughout the spectrum. So they are quite fun to listen to, while having really good technicalities. The downside is, as you pointed, that they have a big driver (that was the reason I bought them, even if I wasn't sure they would fit me) and can be quite big in your ears. I know they are the only one i wear the "normal way", every other earbuds I have I wear them over the ear, as shown in this post: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3423#post-16089375

Yincrow RW-777 are a lot more relaxed sounding, in that they have a balanced sound, still on the warm side but not overdone. They have excellent technicalities and are a pleasure to listen to for hours, first because of their great comfort (they are so tiny), and because that relaxed sound just flows in your ears, with everything in place.
The "downside" being they are earbuds that reveal themselves in the long run, as they don't have, to my ears, any "WOW" effect. They're not boring at all, though, I immediately knew when listening to them the first time, that they would be a keeper. And they are always in my listening rotation.

Hope it helps a bit!

 

[furyossa]

Don't be sad, all this is just a hobby and I'm sure @furyossa wasn't joking at you for your English (we are a lot here for which English isn't our native language, and it doesn't affect the way we share our passion for music!), just finding a funny analogy to cool down the temperature in the middle of our heated discussion!

No, I wasn't kidding, I only made a suggestion, because I also mostly use G.T. My English is much worse.
I had no bad intentions.
Otherwise, I like to joke because too serious a conversation can cause overheating even a Supernova

 

[RikudouGoku]

Functionality and feature wise which one you prefer DX160 or M11?

M11 by a long shot.

Dx160 is super laggy and build quality feels cheap in comparison...

 

[Sam L]

No, I wasn't kidding, I only made a suggestion, because I also mostly use G.T. My English is much worse.
I had no bad intentions.
Otherwise, I like to joke because too serious a conversation can cause overheating even a Supernova

I was fooled by the high level of your English. By the way, I'm still working through your PM to me. It is filled with a lot of deep, high-quality insights. Not an easy read, even for English-speaking native.

 

[FranQL]

I finally ordered these and the green tonekings, but I've left the rest of the recommendations on my list just in case.

€ 32,32 35%OFF | Ksearphone-auricular de Metal HIFI con controlador dinámico para DJ, auricular de 3,5mm, 15mm https://a.aliexpress.com/_B1k86v


Later I will try something with high impedance type rosemary or zen lite, just to test. Although this thread is about headphones, the sources are important and help to know what you can drive and what not when choosing, I think it is complementary and useful information.

If they are comfortable I hope to use them while I work at home and by not isolating anything from anything is what I was looking for, once my brain has burned I am sure they will be the ones I use the most. Some time ago I used pt15 that I did not like at all (my fault for sure, I barely used them) and Ry4s, that I am not able to wear them more than 1 hour. The thread has helped me a lot, so I will continue here.

 

[furyossa]

I finally ordered these and the green tonekings, but I've left the rest of the recommendations on my list just in case.

€ 32,32 35%OFF | Ksearphone-auricular de Metal HIFI con controlador dinámico para DJ, auricular de 3,5mm, 15mm https://a.aliexpress.com/_B1k86v


Later I will try something with high impedance type rosemary or zen lite, just to test. Although this thread is about headphones, the sources are important and help to know what you can drive and what not when choosing, I think it is complementary and useful information.

If they are comfortable I hope to use them while I work at home and by not isolating anything from anything is what I was looking for, once my brain has burned I am sure they will be the ones I use the most. Some time ago I used pt15 that I did not like at all (my fault for sure, I barely used them) and Ry4s, that I am not able to wear them more than 1 hour. The thread has helped me a lot, so I will continue here.

You will be happy with K's Bell-LB (2020 edition) comfort wise. Ergonomics are ok, but I can't say the same about Toneking.
Both models have "concave arc" shell type (see the scheme in this post), but with the K's model the arc is quite relaxed plus the weight of the buds is concentrated in the front (where is driver) and with Toneking at the back part of shell (where is MMCX socket), so over-ear wearing in your case will achieve more sealing and better fit.

And as for the sound, I can't say anything. I had K's Bell-LB (2018 edition) and I didn't like it because very weak low-end and
narrow soundstage but I heard that this newer 2020 version is much better.
Anyway... you chose interesting models

 

[The3DCie]

I finally ordered these and the green tonekings, but I've left the rest of the recommendations on my list just in case.

€ 32,32 35%OFF | Ksearphone-auricular de Metal HIFI con controlador dinámico para DJ, auricular de 3,5mm, 15mm https://a.aliexpress.com/_B1k86v


Later I will try something with high impedance type rosemary or zen lite, just to test. Although this thread is about headphones, the sources are important and help to know what you can drive and what not when choosing, I think it is complementary and useful information.

If they are comfortable I hope to use them while I work at home and by not isolating anything from anything is what I was looking for, once my brain has burned I am sure they will be the ones I use the most. Some time ago I used pt15 that I did not like at all (my fault for sure, I barely used them) and Ry4s, that I am not able to wear them more than 1 hour. The thread has helped me a lot, so I will continue here.

Great choice about K's LBW, I'm sure you'll like them!
And if by any chance you don't I'll buy them back from you, I like them that much.

About ToneKing Dendroaspis Viridis I can't say as I didn't have the chance to try them but they seem to be praised a lot by those who have them so you should have a good pair of different buds to try, you'll tell us how you like them.
Toneking is one of those brand I want to test for a long time now, might pull the trigger on TO200 one day or the other!