[furyossa]

Great choice about K's LBW, I'm sure you'll like them!
And if by any chance you don't I'll buy them back from you, I like them that much.

About ToneKing Dendroaspis Viridis I can't say as I didn't have the chance to try them but they seem to be praised a lot by those who have them so you should have a good pair of different buds to try, you'll tell us how you like them.
Toneking is one of those brand I want to test for a long time now, might pull the trigger on TO200 one day or the other!

My only concern here is the type of female MMCX socket. The thin walls of this connector can deform over the time ie they become loose
My OG NiceHCK EBX has the same type, and it happens that I occasionally lose the signal on the right side.
Smabat ST-10 (first version) had a similar problem, and then they changed the connectors in the next version

 

[WoodyLuvr]

My only concern here is the type of female MMCX socket. The thin walls of this connector can deform over the time ie they become loose
My OG NiceHCK EBX has the same type, and it happens that I occasionally lose the signal on the right side.
Smabat ST-10 (first version) had a similar problem, and then they changed the connectors in the next version

Totally concur regarding certain types (female vs male and varying quality levels) of MMCX connectors. One must indeed be very careful with certain types. I had issues with the connectors on my original pairs of Shure SE215 and SE215LTD-A IEMs. Luckily they were replaced by Shure both times without issue and with their profuse apologies. I never had the problem again with either replacement pair. Strange but it was most likely my not being careful enough though I am never mobile with my headgear but rather stationary at a desk so hard to say what really happened though I suspect they were rather weak ("thin walled" as you mentioned). I never had any MMCX problems with my Shure SE535s which I had expected but never came to fruition. With my Smabats I don't even touch the connectors nor do I even dare look at 'em... you know just in case I jinx them!

 

[furyossa]

My only concern here is the type of female MMCX socket. The thin walls of this connector can deform over the time ie they become loose
My OG NiceHCK EBX has the same type, and it happens that I occasionally lose the signal on the right side.
Smabat ST-10 (first version) had a similar problem, and then they changed the connectors in the next version

How to check if the Toneking shell suits you. Buy a pack of Mentos Mint Candy and put in the ear. If they don’t fall out within 60s then that’s a good sign

 

[baskingshark]

Totally concur regarding certain types (female vs male and varying quality levels) of MMCX connectors. One must indeed be very careful with certain types. I had issues with the connectors on my original pairs of Shure SE215 and SE215LTD-A IEMs. Luckily they were replaced by Shure both times without issue and with their profuse apologies. I never had the problem again with either replacement pair. Strange but it was most likely my not being careful enough though I am never mobile with my headgear but rather stationary at a desk so hard to say what really happened though I suspect they were rather weak ("thin walled" as you mentioned). I never had any MMCX problems with my Shure SE535s which I had expected but never came to fruition. With my Smabats I don't even touch the connectors nor do I even dare look at 'em... you know just in case I jinx them!

Speaking about MMCX connectors, are there any earbuds that use 2 pin connectors? MMCX of course has its issues (usually lesser lifespan) with frequent cable changing, but they are at least less variable in compatibility than 2 pin types, which come in quite mindboggling permutations eg recessed/protruding housing, angled/straight, 0.75mm/0.78mm, QDC/TFZ etc.

I find it strange that quite a number of modern TOTL earbuds still come with non detachable cables even in 2020. It's not only a potential point of failure down the line, but some of us may wanna use aftermarket balanced cables, BT dongles or even just other aftermarket cables for haptic or asthetics or even sonic upgrades. For budget sets to have non detachable cables is par for the course, but in the big scheme of things, to add a MMCX connector in for a TOTL set doesn't add too much to the price, shouldn't it?

 

[mrfashion]

I find it strange that quite a number of modern TOTL earbuds still come with non detachable cables even in 2020.

Fiio’s reasoning with the EM5 was that their head tuner decided it sounds best with that particular silver litz cable. They didn’t want to compromise the sound quality by allowing users to attach different cables.

I might be in the minority, but I find it troubling that Fiio’s (head?) tuner thinks this way.

 

[wskl]

Speaking about MMCX connectors, are there any earbuds that use 2 pin connectors? MMCX of course has its issues (usually lesser lifespan) with frequent cable changing, but they are at least less variable in compatibility than 2 pin types, which come in quite mindboggling permutations eg recessed/protruding housing, angled/straight, 0.75mm/0.78mm, QDC/TFZ etc.

I find it strange that quite a number of modern TOTL earbuds still come with non detachable cables even in 2020. It's not only a potential point of failure down the line, but some of us may wanna use aftermarket balanced cables, BT dongles or even just other aftermarket cables for haptic or asthetics or even sonic upgrades. For budget sets to have non detachable cables is par for the course, but in the big scheme of things, to add a MMCX connector in for a TOTL set doesn't add too much to the price, shouldn't it?

For 2-pin, you can look at the Rose earbuds such as the Masya and Maria.

Also, VE used to sell Omega Editions of their earbuds but now discontinued, perhaps you can look for a used pair.

 

[baskingshark]

Fiio’s reasoning with the EM5 was that their head tuner decided it sounds best with that particular silver litz cable. They didn’t want to compromise the sound quality by allowing users to attach different cables.

I might be in the minority, but I find it troubling that Fiio’s (head?) tuner thinks this way.

On the Fiio thread, I actually asked the rep about this. He kept harping that the non detachable cable has a modular system to switch to balanced or unbalanced options. Fair enough, but I asked him that considering this is TOTL pricing, what if the cable dies at the non detachable part near the insertion to the earbud housing (which is a potential point of failure with frequent flexing), he didn't reply. I am quite fearful to buy any IEM or earbud more than $50 with non detachable cables as I had a few midfi Westones that died on me in the past (non detachable) at the cable.

 

[furyossa]

Speaking about MMCX connectors, are there any earbuds that use 2 pin connectors? MMCX of course has its issues (usually lesser lifespan) with frequent cable changing, but they are at least less variable in compatibility than 2 pin types, which come in quite mindboggling permutations eg recessed/protruding housing, angled/straight, 0.75mm/0.78mm, QDC/TFZ etc.

I find it strange that quite a number of modern TOTL earbuds still come with non detachable cables even in 2020. It's not only a potential point of failure down the line, but some of us may wanna use aftermarket balanced cables, BT dongles or even just other aftermarket cables for haptic or asthetics or even sonic upgrades. For budget sets to have non detachable cables is par for the course, but in the big scheme of things, to add a MMCX connector in for a TOTL set doesn't add too much to the price, shouldn't it?

There are various advantages and disadvantages regarding flexible connection (where the cable is connected directly to the driver) and rigid connection (via MMCX,2-pin, mini XLR connector)
IMHO flexible connection is practical with all buds that have longer stem. The added weight by connector and also housing of the connector only compromises the fit.
On the other hand, connectors are practical for buds without or with short stem. 2-pin is lighter but does not allow any rotation which is otherwise the only advantage of MMCX. It annoys me a lot when I see non-standard MMCX connectors on some models as with Shure models and oBravo Cupid for example Luckily they have good support
The mini XLR is the safest connection, but due to its size, it increases the weight a lot.
Ok we started the topic about MMCX, so I would like to add this. Here are a few links about the types I outlined in the picture
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892212454.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32892074243.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957056187.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001593330598.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000144363063.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000162777437.html

1. This type of MMCX is often used for IEMs. The side walls are quite reinforced and the profile itself fits well into the shell.
2. I can't remember which model uses this type but this is one of the examples that should be avoided because of the thin walls.
3. A similar case as 2nd type.
4.5.6 Are the types that can often be seen on earbuds and are very practical for DIY mmcx mod's.
For me 6.type is the best but due to its larger diameter it cannot be used with all types of shells like type 4 and 5. The wires are easily soldered and do not protrude
Type 4 is currently the most widely used and is very easy to install in the MX500 and PK shells. The main drawback is the large length of the "neck", and it is not practical at all for shells without a stem.
Type 5 is an improved type 4 version. It has a shorter "neck" and a slot located on the front makes it easier to hold while removing the cable i.e. male mmcx socket.

 

[FranQL]

My only concern here is the type of female MMCX socket. The thin walls of this connector can deform over the time ie they become loose
My OG NiceHCK EBX has the same type, and it happens that I occasionally lose the signal on the right side.
Smabat ST-10 (first version) had a similar problem, and then they changed the connectors in the next version

This problem I have only had with 2 iem of tinhifi, the rest have never been loosened.

 

[furyossa]

On the Fiio thread, I actually asked the rep about this. He kept harping that the non detachable cable has a modular system to switch to balanced or unbalanced options. Fair enough, but I asked him that considering this is TOTL pricing, what if the cable dies at the non detachable part near the insertion to the earbud housing (which is a potential point of failure with frequent flexing), he didn't reply. I am quite fearful to buy any IEM or earbud more than $50 with non detachable cables as I had a few midfi Westones that died on me in the past (non detachable) at the cable.

We see so many new innovations every day when it comes to the design of drivers, shells, cables etc
I really don't know why it's so hard to invent a new connection, ie a system that will be much more secure than these connectors that have been used for years.
I'm not saying that they are not good, but there is always the possibility of something being improved and standardized

 

[povidlo]

Was looking at the Maria II. Two big questions would be the over ear fit cause I would use a BT cable which is over ear and wind noise with that design. Never had that design and use buds outside more than in. Looks like the outer part would be too far out and have a wind noise problem. Anybody can comment on the wind thing?

I prefer to wear Maria I cable down. With newly-arrived Hiegi full foams, the fit is great. Over-ear, it's hard for me to position the blob with 20mm driver so the earbud is angled towards the ear canal. I don't get extra/less wind outside than with other earbuds, however for me personally there's more outside noise/wind if worn over-ear due to poor seal.

I've ordered Fiio UTWS3 2-pin version and will be trying my Maria with them as well.

Might be a bit different story with Maria II which is reportedly heavier due to all-metal build.

 

[mrfashion]

I am quite fearful to buy any IEM or earbud more than $50 with non detachable cables as I had a few midfi Westones that died on me in the past

It’s only this which is preventing me from buying the Fiio EM5 right now.

To be honest, it wouldn’t have bothered me too much a few years back... but I keep having horror premonitions of my toddler tearing the cable apart like warm bread.

 

[FranQL]

We see so many new innovations every day when it comes to the design of drivers, shells, cables etc
I really don't know why it's so hard to invent a new connection, ie a system that will be much more secure than these connectors that have been used for years.
I'm not saying that they are not good, but there is always the possibility of something being improved and standardized

the connection of two recessed pins is the safest or least exposed to breakage, but yes, with everything that is innovated it is striking that it is so difficult to get a good fit.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

There are various advantages and disadvantages regarding flexible connection (where the cable is connected directly to the driver) and rigid connection (via MMCX,2-pin, mini XLR connector)
IMHO flexible connection is practical with all buds that have longer stem. The added weight by connector and also housing of the connector only compromises the fit.
On the other hand, connectors are practical for buds without or with short stem. 2-pin is lighter but does not allow any rotation which is otherwise the only advantage of MMCX. It annoys me a lot when I see non-standard MMCX connectors on some models as with Shure models and oBravo Cupid for example Luckily they have good support
The mini XLR is the safest connection, but due to its size, it increases the weight a lot.

Concur and fully appreciate all "detachable cable" opinions offered and shared. I most definitely see the need for detachable connectors for those mobile users pushing the limits of fixed cabling. That said, my being completely stationary while listening, I rarely, if ever, test my earbuds' cable integrity limits. Besides the two Shure IEMs I mentioned before and a second-hand pair of Puresounds that were heavily used before my time, I have had zero issues with cables and prefer my earbuds to be as light as possible for a securer fit.

We see so many new innovations every day when it comes to the design of drivers, shells, cables etc
I really don't know why it's so hard to invent a new connection, ie a system that will be much more secure than these connectors that have been used for years.
I'm not saying that they are not good, but there is always the possibility of something being improved and standardized

Yes, it too amazes me that besides Audio-Technica's developed A2DC connector pretty much all other IEM/earbud connectors used are based off of coaxial RF connectors for antennas.

 

[furyossa]

the connection of two recessed pins is the safest or least exposed to breakage, but yes, with everything that is innovated it is striking that it is so difficult to get a good fit.

When I mentioned the new connection system I meant an innovative modular system that will not compromise the fit and can be easily changed. Just to mention it refers to the connection of the cable to the shell only.
For example modular cable system with interchangeable plugs invented by Dita Audio company it is slowly beginning to have wide application.
This technology was taken over by DUNU and applied on its famous CHORD, HULK, BLANCHE and NOBLE cables.
And Fiio was the first to apply the same system on earbuds (EM5 model).
Also this modular system plugs can be purchased separately

Spoiler: Modular system plugs

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993028884.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32921422302.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001463529250.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000858622753.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000500282380.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001115319549.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000021771334.html

An interesting solution that could be applied to earbuds is twist-to-lock design which secures the connection firmly.
Many companies have been using this system with headphones for a long time