[dsonance]

BTW, if you look back in this thread a couple weeks ago people did the math about to show the amplification requirements when we were discussing the VE Megatron and the Yinman 600s.

Yeah, those calculations are part of the reason I'm thinking BTR7 can't be optimal... But, with the boost on, and at the lower volume, perhaps it is

I wish I could measure the actual power output, and see how much is getting drawn. According to Amir's measurements here - if I'm reading them correctly - BTR7 should be able to output over 5.7 Vrms with the 600 Ohm load. But, the math I've seen earlier in this thread seems to indicate that's not quite enough.

In any case, I'm curious what people are using to test how well different phones scale with power. I'm thinking, apart from just the sheer enjoyment of music (conditioned as that is by the subjective differences we all have in likes, dislikes, and perceptions in general), there's also an element of critical listening skill that can be developed. I'd love to learn more about how you guys approach this.

 

[jeejack]

I bought them on aliexpress so I do have the option to return or ask for exchange, but I just noticed the sale so wanted to see which option to go with.

So the M4 has the same stock driver as the M2s Pro? Is the bass response more noticeable in the M4 in your experience? I do like the neutral-ish sound signature with a bump in the bass, after taming those harsh mids. When I eq'd the m2s pro I did add a ~3db boost to the lows as well, but wondering if the M4 would need that. I bought the M2s Pro since quite a few people said the bass was good, however to me in most of my songs it felt lacking.

As far as I know, stock drivers are different. M4 comes with LCP driver. Only the impedance is the same

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Yeah, those calculations are part of the reason I'm thinking BTR7 can't be optimal... But, with the boost on, and at the lower volume, perhaps it is

I wish I could measure the actual power output, and see how much is getting drawn. According to Amir's measurements here - if I'm reading them correctly - BTR7 should be able to output over 5.7 Vrms with the 600 Ohm load. But, the math I've seen earlier in this thread seems to indicate that's not quite enough.

In any case, I'm curious what people are using to test how well different phones scale with power. I'm thinking, apart from just the sheer enjoyment of music (conditioned as that is by the subjective differences we all have in likes, dislikes, and perceptions in general), there's also an element of critical listening skill that can be developed. I'd love to learn more about how you guys approach this.

My critical listening skills have developed by spending decades listening critically in as many situations to as much different gear and music/audio as possible. Whether that's monitoring my own performances live or in the studio, reviewing studio mixing and mastering on my own and my band's recordings, listening for and analyizing the differences between different versions of a given track or album (remasters/remixes released after an initial release), comparing and contrasting audio gear, analyzing musicians' performances in live and recorded settings to improve my own, etc.

Another key element has been educating myself about concepts important to critical listening like timbre, tone, imaging, separation, mixing and mastering techniques, styles, and shortcomings, recording techniques, manufacturing and tuning techniques, etc. The list goes on and on, but the important thing is to absorb information and learn about as many different facets of audio, music, and gear as you can. The more you listen to and compare and contrast gear and music and the more you educate yourself about the concepts of what to listen for the better you'll get at picking up in differences, nuances, and subtleties.

That said, all of that may not be something you end up wanting to do. I've become better at it now, but at one point I found it very difficult to turn off the critical side and just enjoy music once I got deep into it and it nearly deatroyed my love for the head-fi related hobbies. Only you can determine that, but I'll just say that it's important to maintain a balance between critical listening and musical enjoyment and to make sure you allow plenty of time for both.

As to your first question about scaling, having several different sources of amplification with varying degrees of available power on tap is the best way to determine how well a given transducer scales for you. You start listening on a lower powered setup and move up until you reach a level where there is no longer a performance increase with additional power. The thing with the math I mentioned earlier is that it doesn't account for all variables including our own limitations as listeners so the numbers don't always align with experience, but they are useful indicators.

I hope this was helpful and not just me rambling.

Edit: I should note that by differing degrees of power on tap I mean both varying mW or W as well as varying levels of voltage. The wattage will give you volume, but some drivers need increased current to really shine. Increased current can be just as important if not moreso as increased wattage when looking at scalability of harder to drive transducers.

 

[mt877]

Just another post to compare the official published FiiO FF3 FR graph vs what I captured. This post is just a reality check to be sure my captures aren't way off base.

Official published FF3 FR graph (no foams):

My capture of FF3 with no foams vs balanced foams:

I believe I'm capturing ok(?). While my capture doesn't exactly match the officially released FR graph, it is close enough considering FiiO uses a high level measuring rig vs the very low cost Dayton Audio iMM-6.

 

[Ronion]

Thank you, exactly what I was looking for.

By the way, does anyone have any idea if these are real TG38s?

It’s impossible to tell without opening them up unfortunately.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Just another post to compare the official published FiiO FF3 FR graph vs what I captured. This post is just a reality check to be sure my captures aren't way off base.

Official published FF3 FR graph (no foams):

My capture of FF3 with no foams vs balanced foams:


I believe I'm capturing ok(?). While my capture doesn't exactly match the officially released FR graph, it is close enough considering FiiO uses a high level measuring rig vs the very low cost Dayton Audio iMM-6.

Nice work! I have played around with the iMM-6 before and it's a neat piece of gear. My friend and I were checking it's measurements against my meticulously assembled standardized rig and it does a pretty good job. I don't really care to have my whole measurment setup going right now, but I have been thinking about picking up one of these Daytons for checking a few things while working on my DIY earbud projects in the future. I mean, regardless of how well it measures versus other rigs, it certainly seemed to me to be consistent enough to show me differences made by tuning revisions versus previous measurements taken with the IMM-6 as well. Kinda can't beat it for the cash.

 

[mt877]

Nice work! I have played around with the iMM-6 before and it's a neat piece of gear. My friend and I were checking it's measurements against my meticulously assembled standardized rig and it does a pretty good job. I don't really care to have my whole measurment setup going right now, but I have been thinking about picking up one of these Daytons for checking a few things while working on my DIY earbud projects in the future. I mean, regardless of how well it measures versus other rigs, it certainly seemed to me to be consistent enough to show me differences made by tuning revisions versus previous measurements taken with the IMM-6 as well. Kinda can't beat it for the cash.

I read the Dayton UMM-6 (calibrated usb mic) gets better measurements with REW than the iMM-6. With the UMM-6, it's basically plug-n-play with REW. Connect the UMM-6, load the calibration file into REW and make readings. That's the simplified version, but you get what I'm saying. Unless I find the iMM-6 is totally lacking, I'm gonna stick with it for now.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

Thank you, @samandhi ! I am thoroughly enjoying the Yinman!
And, the credit goes to you and @WoodyLuvr: it was based on your recommendations in this thread that I got them. So, many thanks for that too!

Spoiler

Do I spy a new variation of the wooden box they are sent in?

 

[Ronion]

I just got a Dayton Audio iMM-6 and been playing with REW to get some FR graphs. I've read a few tutorials on how to setup REW and used the Dayton calibration file for my iMM-6. Other tutorial says it's better to not use the calibration file and do a manual calibration. Right now I'm using the headphone / microphone female TRRS jack on my laptop and it seems to be working ok(?). It's all still new to me, so forgive me for any mistakes. Anyway here's what I got for ST10s B&G 150 vs M4 ST10s 150. There are differences in the FR graphs, but also similarities as well. I took 5 FR readings for each driver and was going to average the 5 readings per driver together, but there was no reason to average them because the 5 FR graphs per driver were exactly the same.

Very interesting and cool. Let’s troubleshoot a minute: How are you connecting the driver to the mic?

 

[mt877]

Very interesting and cool. Let’s troubleshoot a minute: How are you connecting the driver to the mic?

The easiest way possible. Anybody using the iMM-6 should use this publicly recommended and released earbud adapter.

 

[dsonance]

Do I spy a new variation of the wooden box they are sent in?

Yes, @WoodyLuvr , that's the box they were sent in. I included it in the picture especially for you

 

[dsonance]

It’s impossible to tell without opening them up unfortunately.

I received mine last week (ordered from Chitty's Store), and am facing the same dilemma. @Ronion, what says you I send them to you for research?

 

[Ronion]

The easiest way possible. Anybody using the iMM-6 should use this publicly recommended and released earbud adapter.

I have that adapter as well. I actually want to use it for other purposes. Maybe I should use it and we could compare notes…. I was just about to start working on a bud tuning tonight.

 

[Ronion]

I received mine last week (ordered from Chitty's Store), and am facing the same dilemma. @Ronion, what says you I send them to you for research?

They can be a dicey opening. Some of them are glued, some of them are not. If they are not, they are easy and tuning them to something special is also easy and I could tell you how. If the driver looks like this, it’s a good one.

 

[mt877]

I have that adapter as well. I actually want to use it for other purposes. Maybe I should use it and we could compare notes…. I was just about to start working on a bud tuning tonight.

I had it 3D printed with an elastic rubber like material, not hard PLA. Maybe the resonance and sound reflections of mine will be different then yours?