[thedjkhalid]

OIC.

Yes, they are the same driver (IIRC). In my experience with both the M2s Pro and the M4, the stock (40ohm) driver doesn't have the bass that the other (especially higher ohm) drivers have. I would say that they sound very similar overall, so what you are hearing with the M2s Pro you will hear similar with the M4 (just a bit of a difference in the shell makeup). But to me, the good stuff is really in the other drivers you can get for both/either of them (not that the 40ohm driver is bad by any means).

So, if given a choice of only one of them (knowing what I know about both), if I were going for sound quality alone, the M2s Pro are just a tad bit better to my ears, but the M4 are overall nicer (more mature). I would say that if the 2k region doesn't bother you, then you really can't go wrong with either.

If you have the money, I would buy the m4 and exchange the M2s Pro and have both to compare for yourself... Though I would highly encourage you to get at least the 150ohm Ti driver or the Super One 100ohm bio driver for both (if you can). Or (not to throw too much of a curve ball at ya') the ST10S B&G (150ohm Ti) is still available also, and those have some REALLY good bass response. Just my $.02 though!

Hmm in that case I would probably lean towards the M4. Is the fit better? The M2s Pro's fit was pretty okay/good for me, compared to mx500s. Wasn't uncomfortable.

I have heard many things about the ST10s driver, especially on the DIY end. I think I will probably choose between the Super One driver and ST10s and looking into it more.

 

[DBaldock9]

You should have gotten the 150Ti driver if that is what you were looking for IMO. It is the same as was/is in the ST10S B&G. Though it still doesn't have as deep of bass as the ST10S B&G in the M4 (probably the shell coming into play here). It IS bassier than the 100 bio driver though. And I would agree with you that the 100 bio seems to be the more balanced sounding driver.

Well, since I actually have my oddball 300-Ω ST-10s (Gold/Black) earbuds, I figured it would be a good idea to try a different driver for the M4.
.
One thing I haven't tried yet, is the different dampers that were also in the order. I know that somewhere back in this thread, it was mentioned what the different numbered dampers do. Was that info provided by testing, or is there a clear description on a web page somewhere?

With the Smabat sale today, I did order another pair of M4 housings, and the 150-Ω ST-10s drivers - as well as a set of Black Bats.

 

[FranQL]

With the Smabat sale today, I did order another pair of M4 housings, and the 150-Ω ST-10s drivers - as well as a set of Black Bats.

I have blackbat, I would love to know your opinion about them

 

[samandhi]

Hmm in that case I would probably lean towards the M4. Is the fit better? The M2s Pro's fit was pretty okay/good for me, compared to mx500s. Wasn't uncomfortable.

I have heard many things about the ST10s driver, especially on the DIY end. I think I will probably choose between the Super One driver and ST10s and looking into it more.

The fitment is the same on both. The M4 and M2s Pro are almost identical, except the M4 is a tad bigger (in all proportions), but the driver appears to be the same size, so if the M2s Pro fit you then the M4 would also fit.

With the Smabat sale today, I did order another pair of M4 housings, and the 150-Ω ST-10s drivers - as well as a set of Black Bats.

To my ears the 150ohm Ti driver in the M4 is different enough that you won't regret the purchase (solely based on having two buds that sound just alike). Now, whether you like it or not still has yet to be seen (heard ). Do let us (me) know, as I am curious?! @mt877 reports that (to his ears) they sound the same or very near (IIRC), but I find them quite different sounding.

 

[dsonance]

They look like the legit TG-38s I have seen. I gave my pair away a couple months back, but that's how I remember them looking.

I think, the picture might be misleading. The disclaimer in the item description says that they do not have the manufacturer's name on them anymore. I just got a pair from Chitty's Store last week, and it's the same story: the picture didn't quite match what I received

 

[dsonance]

Just got my Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition, and have been testing driving it with Fiio BTR7. My (completely) untrained ears have not been able to detect any problems so far. All they are telling me is that the two sound really lovely together. But, can I trust their uneducated opinion?

My testing was mostly done with Tidal running on NVidia Shield, connected to BTR7 over BT LDAC. With the gain on High and the balanced boost setting turned on, the highest volume I needed on the BTR7 was 32 (out of 60). Many tracks didn't need it higher than 20-22. The sound has been clean and detailed, the soundstage was what I would expect on a given track, and the imaging and layering seemed to be great too. I have JDS Atom and ZEN CAN to compare the results with, but am having hard time finding a track that would sound noticeably better with the more power available, on either one of those two desktop amps.

What would you guys suggest I should try listening to, to expose BTR7 for the imperfect source it's got to be?

(To be honest, I won't be TOO sad if, in fact, BTR7 is NOT imperfect But, I want to make sure it earns that distinction fairly.)

 

[Fabulo]

Nobody can really answer that one for you. Having said that, for $40 something they are at the very least a fantastic concept and a well built (and good looking too IMO) set of earbuds. To my ears, they don't sound the same as the M2s Pro (same(ish) overall signature but different acoustics), but I was able to use the same theory with EQ to alleviate the piercing (which to me seems a bit worse on the M4). The drivers are easier to deal with, and (ATM) it is cheaper. I think that the drivers used in the M4 are the same as was used in the M2s Pro (other than the ST20, and ST20 Pro drivers).

All that said, don't you have a warranty for the M2s Pro (and subsequently the driver), or did you buy them second hand?

According to their website, the stock driver of the M4 is a 40ohm lcp instead the M2s Pro have a 40ohm titanium. Do you find any differences using the same driver on both earbuds? Especially in the high frequencies which are the ones that I find most fatiguing

 

[samandhi]

Just got my Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition, and have been testing driving it with Fiio BTR7. My (completely) untrained ears have not been able to detect any problems so far. All they are telling me is that the two sound really lovely together. But, can I trust their uneducated opinion?

My testing was mostly done with Tidal running on NVidia Shield, connected to BTR7 over BT LDAC. With the gain on High and the balanced boost setting turned on, the highest volume I needed on the BTR7 was 32 (out of 60). Many tracks didn't need it higher than 20-22. The sound has been clean and detailed, the soundstage was what I would expect on a given track, and the imaging and layering seemed to be great too. I have JDS Atom and ZEN CAN to compare the results with, but am having hard time finding a track that would sound noticeably better with the more power available, on either one of those two desktop amps.

What would you guys suggest I should try listening to, to expose BTR7 for the imperfect source it's got to be?

(To be honest, I won't be TOO sad if, in fact, BTR7 is NOT imperfect But, I want to make sure it earns that distinction fairly.)

To be honest, does it really matter? If you can't tell a difference, and enjoy the sound from the FiiO device, then I would say it doesn't get better.... I would simply enjoy them.

Besides it may not come down to perfect or imperfect. No DAPs/amps are perfect. But... instead think of it as a perfect synergy (for you).

Congrats on your new shiny!

According to their website, the stock driver of the M4 is a 40ohm lcp instead the M2s Pro have a 40ohm titanium. Do you find any differences using the same driver on both earbuds? Especially in the high frequencies which are the ones that I find most fatiguing

You are correct (my memory isn't what it used to be). I find that the two different 40ohm drivers sound very similar in the M2s Pro. The tuning is pretty much the same(ish).

To my ears, I find the M2s Pro to sound a bit better with all the drivers (that I have anyhow) comparatively speaking to the M4 that is. Having said that, I think you might have to have them side by side to really tell the difference (except that the pina gain is a bit hotter to my ears with the M4 on all drivers). This problem is solved by doing some really simple EQ though (nothing fancy needed here IMO).

As for treble, and because of the boosted pina gain, I find the treble to be present, but a bit recessed or laid back so that it doesn't sound over done mixed with that added presence region. When subtracting dB at 2K I find that I need to boost the treble a bit to give it some sparkle.

These are all my opinions and YMMV! There might be others that feel quite the opposite of what I have suggested here.

 

[Fabulo]

To be honest, does it really matter? If you can't tell a difference, and enjoy the sound from the FiiO device, then I would say it doesn't get better.... I would simply enjoy them.

Besides it may not come down to perfect or imperfect. No DAPs/amps are perfect. But... instead think of it as a perfect synergy (for you).

Congrats on your new shiny!

You are correct (my memory isn't what it used to be). I find that the two different 40ohm drivers sound very similar in the M2s Pro. The tuning is pretty much the same(ish).

To my ears, I find the M2s Pro to sound a bit better with all the drivers (that I have anyhow) comparatively speaking to the M4 that is. Having said that, I think you might have to have them side by side to really tell the difference (except that the pina gain is a bit hotter to my ears with the M4 on all drivers). This problem is solved by doing some really simple EQ though (nothing fancy needed here IMO).

As for treble, and because of the boosted pina gain, I find the treble to be present, but a bit recessed or laid back so that it doesn't sound over done mixed with that added presence region. When subtracting dB at 2K I find that I need to boost the treble a bit to give it some sparkle.

These are all my opinions and YMMV! There might be others that feel quite the opposite of what I have suggested here.

Thanks for the info, I was considering the upgrade to the M4 but I will keep my M2s Pro with the stock driver and the 150ohm titanium.

One last question, considering that in my opinion the two titanium drivers sound more or less the same (the 150 has more bass and is better in everything but the general tuning is the same) do you know an IEM that sounds similar?

 

[dsonance]

To be honest, does it really matter? If you can't tell a difference, and enjoy the sound from the FiiO device, then I would say it doesn't get better.... I would simply enjoy them.

Besides it may not come down to perfect or imperfect. No DAPs/amps are perfect. But... instead think of it as a perfect synergy (for you).

Congrats on your new shiny!

Thank you, @samandhi ! I am thoroughly enjoying the Yinman!
And, the credit goes to you and @WoodyLuvr: it was based on your recommendations in this thread that I got them. So, many thanks for that too!

But, for the science of it I would still like to find a way to clearly determine if the amplification is optimal. Even if, in my case, ignorance is bliss, for sure.

Spoiler

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Just got my Longyao Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 600Ω Limited Edition, and have been testing driving it with Fiio BTR7. My (completely) untrained ears have not been able to detect any problems so far. All they are telling me is that the two sound really lovely together. But, can I trust their uneducated opinion?

My testing was mostly done with Tidal running on NVidia Shield, connected to BTR7 over BT LDAC. With the gain on High and the balanced boost setting turned on, the highest volume I needed on the BTR7 was 32 (out of 60). Many tracks didn't need it higher than 20-22. The sound has been clean and detailed, the soundstage was what I would expect on a given track, and the imaging and layering seemed to be great too. I have JDS Atom and ZEN CAN to compare the results with, but am having hard time finding a track that would sound noticeably better with the more power available, on either one of those two desktop amps.

What would you guys suggest I should try listening to, to expose BTR7 for the imperfect source it's got to be?

(To be honest, I won't be TOO sad if, in fact, BTR7 is NOT imperfect But, I want to make sure it earns that distinction fairly.)

@samandhi nailed it! If it sounds perfect to you and the performance is making your ears happy then that's all that matters. What anyone else says about them scaling with more power and all that stuff is irrelevant if your ears can't hear it. It doesn't mean that either side is wrong, it just proves what we all already know which is that this is a hobby built on subjective experiences.

FWIW, I think the 600s scale with power, but to my ears, not to the degree that some other owners do. Part of the reason I love exchanging experiences and thoughts regarding head-fi gear and music/audio is because I think It's so cool how a single piece of gear or a single song can be experienced in completely different ways by any given person. Not only is it fun compare those different experiences, but it's a great way to keep yourself grounded by being cognizant of just how diverse the perspectives in this world can be on even the smallest thing. That's just a great life lesson to be reminded of on a regular basis, IMO.

I'm stoked that you're diggin' the 600s. As I have asked a few other times in different posts recently, don't you just love it when a purchase exceeds expectations? I know I do!

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Thank you, @samandhi ! I am thoroughly enjoying the Yinman!
And, the credit goes to you and @WoodyLuvr: it was based on your recommendations in this thread that I got them. So, many thanks for that too!

But, for the science of it I would still like to find a way to clearly determine if the amplification is optimal. Even if, in my case, ignorance is bliss, for sure.

Spoiler

BTW, if you look back in this thread a couple weeks ago people did the math about to show the amplification requirements when we were discussing the VE Megatron and the Yinman 600s.

 

[Mr.HiAudio]

first update of my work

some impressions from my friends:

Spoiler: first

short I listen to Riobads and it's just something incredible But I can't figure out what kind of speakers I put in. There was a handful that were not very good in mx500 cases. I took the first ones that came across. And I'm just freaking out from the sound now

Spoiler: second(need translate)

https://telegra.ph/Obzortestirovanie-samodelnyh-vkladyshejtabletok-DIY-ot-Romana-on-zhe-RIO-09-29

 

[JAnonymous5150]

first update of my work

some impressions from my friends:

Spoiler: first

short I listen to Riobads and it's just something incredible But I can't figure out what kind of speakers I put in. There was a handful that were not very good in mx500 cases. I took the first ones that came across. And I'm just freaking out from the sound now

Spoiler: second(need translate)

https://telegra.ph/Obzortestirovanie-samodelnyh-vkladyshejtabletok-DIY-ot-Romana-on-zhe-RIO-09-29

Good stuff! I don't remember if you mentioned this before, but what's your plan for the future with these shells/buds? Are you planning to sell or distribute them and if so, how? This looks like a cool project and I like your enthusiasm for it.

 

[mt877]

To my ears the 150ohm Ti driver in the M4 is different enough that you won't regret the purchase (solely based on having two buds that sound just alike). Now, whether you like it or not still has yet to be seen (heard ). Do let us (me) know, as I am curious?! @mt877 reports that (to his ears) they sound the same or very near (IIRC), but I find them quite different sounding.

I just got a Dayton Audio iMM-6 and been playing with REW to get some FR graphs. I've read a few tutorials on how to setup REW and used the Dayton calibration file for my iMM-6. Other tutorial says it's better to not use the calibration file and do a manual calibration. Right now I'm using the headphone / microphone female TRRS jack on my laptop and it seems to be working ok(?). It's all still new to me, so forgive me for any mistakes. Anyway here's what I got for ST10s B&G 150 vs M4 ST10s 150. There are differences in the FR graphs, but also similarities as well. I took 5 FR readings for each driver and was going to average the 5 readings per driver together, but there was no reason to average them because the 5 FR graphs per driver were exactly the same.