[weexisttocease]

https://penonaudio.com/Simphonio-Dragon-3Plus-15th-Anniversary.html

 

[mt877]

Considering their price, I say that it uses the 150 ohm bg driver (blue glue)

150BG is a good driver, should build it and hear how it sounds.

 

[jeejack]

150BG is a good driver, should build it and hear how it sounds.

Yes, and it responds well to tuning

 

[mt877]

Work from home Friday...

Stack: Sony NW-ZX300 (with Mr. Walkman firmware) + DIY "Koala" hybrid tube amp
Buds: DIY "Celeste" 600Ω Bery

 

[InvisibleInk]

Work from home Friday...

Stack: Sony NW-ZX300 (with Mr. Walkman firmware) + DIY "Koala" hybrid tube amp
Buds: DIY "Celeste" 600Ω Bery

What volume level do you have our Sony running at, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[mt877]

What volume level do you have our Sony running at, if you don't mind my asking?

First something to explain. The amp is SE in and out only. I did add a 4.4mm output, but it is wired for SE (parallel to 3.5mmSE out) for convenience of using either 4.4mm or 3.5mm plugs. The buds have 4.4mmBal cable.

As shown in the picture: ZX300 3.5mmSE out (volume to max 120 with low gain) -> Amp (volume dial turned up around 30 to 35%) -> 600 Ohm buds.

Here's some info you might be actually asking about, so I will just throw it in. If the 600 Ohm buds are plugged directly into the ZX300 4.4mmBal output, at low gain the volume is between 70 - 90, depending on how loud the music track is mastered. If I switch to high gain, then volume is 50 - 65, again depending on how loud the music track was mastered. In the case of direct connection to the player, the volume is loud enough and comfortable to listen. If I continue to raise the volume, then it can get louder than I care to listen to (protect my hearing mode).

So why use an amp if the listening volume can get loud enough? The amp is outputting a higher voltage than the Sony DAP which drives the earbud speaker much better. In other words, scaling with power. The entire sound presentation is (lack of a better term) "lifted", better dynamics across the entire frequency range.

 

[DBaldock9]

My earbud buddies get first peak at something I built to drive high impedance buds.

Spoiler

Yep, you see 2 tubes and a Burson V6 Vivid op-amp in there.

Is it based on a Little Bear B4 tube-hybrid amp?

 

[baskingshark]

So why use an amp if the listening volume can get loud enough? The amp is outputting a higher voltage than the Sony DAP which drives the earbud speaker much better. In other words, scaling with power. The entire sound presentation is (lack of a better term) "lifted", better dynamics across the entire frequency range.

Yep driving something to adequate volume is not the same as driving well.

Case in point is something like the Apple dongle. No doubt it is very neutral and measures well, but the power is weak for more demanding transducers. So say paired with the Yinman 600 ohm (600 ohm impedance and 87 dB/mW sensitivity), I can get adequate volume on it by just jacking up the volume. But the dynamics are lost, bass is flabby and one-noted, and soundstage is compressed.

 

[InvisibleInk]

First something to explain. The amp is SE in and out only. I did add a 4.4mm output, but it is wired for SE (parallel to 3.5mmSE out) for convenience of using either 4.4mm or 3.5mm plugs. The buds have 4.4mmBal cable.

As shown in the picture: ZX300 3.5mmSE out (volume to max 120 with low gain) -> Amp (volume dial turned up around 30 to 35%) -> 600 Ohm buds.

Here's some info you might be actually asking about, so I will just throw it in. If the 600 Ohm buds are plugged directly into the ZX300 4.4mmBal output, at low gain the volume is between 70 - 90, depending on how loud the music track is mastered. If I switch to high gain, then volume is 50 - 65, again depending on how loud the music track was mastered. In the case of direct connection to the player, the volume is loud enough and comfortable to listen. If I continue to raise the volume, then it can get louder than I care to listen to (protect my hearing mode).

So why use an amp if the listening volume can get loud enough? The amp is outputting a higher voltage than the Sony DAP which drives the earbud speaker much better. In other words, scaling with power. The entire sound presentation is (lack of a better term) "lifted", better dynamics across the entire frequency range.

I do something similar, but I haven't tried it with the Sony so I was curious how you do it.

 

[mt877]

Is it based on a Little Bear B4 tube-hybrid amp?

Nope, it's a kit from Oatley Electronics. I posted a thread in the DIY forum about a year ago with more details. I gave some links to some of the parts (case, batterry, etc.) but did not really delve into build specifics. If you're interested in building this amp or want to know specific build details, let me know in my DIY thread. For instance I made my own light pipes for the LED outputs on the amp back panel. I didn't publish other details about how I connected (schematic) the add-on USB C battery charging board (not supplied with the kit) to both charge the battery and power the amp.

A little more detail, the tubes are supplied by an 18 volt rail. The op-amp is a dual device, but is split. One amp for right and other amp is used for left channel. Little Bear is using 2x dual op-amps, 1 dual op-amp per channel. They're connected in parallel which increases the output current per channel. The Oatley doesn't invert the power supply for the op-amp, rather they use a unique method of using the single 18 volt rail and balancing the rail voltage so the op-amp has roughly a 8vpp +/- output swing. You'll have to look at the schematics to understand it. I know you're an engineer, so shouldn't have trouble with the schematic.

Oatley K272C-NEW with Burson V6 Vivid amp build

EDIT: I found a DIY thread where someone used 2 of these kits (older version kits) to build a balanced amp which also had an single ended output as well.

Also, sorry for the off topic posting.

 

[mt877]

I do something similar, but I haven't tried it with the Sony so I was curious how you do it.

Off topic:

Ah, ok. It's referred to as "double amping". Many people don't set their DAP volume to max., usually 70 to 80% max volume (unless their DAP has a line out / mode), but that can also cause a problem if the headphone amp has a low input sensitivity and requires a high input level for maximum power output. As an example, some amps require 2Vrms input to achieve the rated output power. If your DAP only outputs 1Vrms, then the amp will never achieve the rated output power. For low impedance transducers with high sensitivity, that situation is not a problem because you really don't need an additional amp for those transducers. The problem is for high impedance, low sensitivity transducers. Then you need to make sure your DAP can output the correct levels for your amp or you may not be able to drive certain head gear properly.

I think some people that may have problems might say that the amp they bought is no good, not enough power or something. But the reality could be that they didn't match the amp to the DAP and picked an amp with published high output power and ignored the amps input sensitivity.

 

[baskingshark]

Off topic:

Ah, ok. It's referred to as "double amping". Many people don't set their DAP volume to max., usually 70 to 80% max volume (unless their DAP has a line out / mode), but that can also cause a problem if the headphone amp has a low input sensitivity and requires a high input level for maximum power output. As an example, some amps require 2Vrms input to achieve the rated output power. If your DAP only outputs 1Vrms, then the amp will never achieve the rated output power. For low impedance transducers with high sensitivity, that situation is not a problem because you really don't need an additional amp for those transducers. The problem is for high impedance, low sensitivity transducers. Then you need to make sure your DAP can output the correct levels for your amp or you may not be able to drive certain head gear properly.

I think some people that may have problems might say that the amp they bought is no good, not enough power or something. But the reality could be that they didn't match the amp to the DAP and picked an amp with published high output power and ignored the amps input sensitivity.

On that point, I am not an Apple user, but I've seen many forum reports of Apple phones not sending out enough power for dongle DAC/amps. I think it is power capped, so the dongles sound crap on some of these Apple phones.

 

[InvisibleInk]

On that point, I am not an Apple user, but I've seen many forum reports of Apple phones not sending out enough power for dongle DAC/amps. I think it is power capped, so the dongles sound crap on some of these Apple phones.

I've found that if you hang an Apple dongle off a DAP's USB port you can get a nice analog line-out from it. The DAP as digital transport. Not every dongle works well like that as a line out device.

 

[matula]

i've sewn some tiny bags from soft eyeglasses cleaner fabric about 4cm x 4cm rectangle and put it over my fengru emx500 (CKLewis Audio Store €9.46) and the result while goofy as heck, is comfortable, it has a nicer texture than the foam covers, and sounds the same. it has a tiny opening in the corner to push the earbuds through. this has the added benefit that it can be removed many times without damaging it, while the foam cover only survives 6-7 cleanings for me before it starts to fall apart.

 

[h8uthemost]

i've sewn some tiny bags from soft eyeglasses cleaner fabric about 4cm x 4cm rectangle and put it over my fengru emx500 (CKLewis Audio Store €9.46) and the result while goofy as heck, is comfortable, it has a nicer texture than the foam covers, and sounds the same. it has a tiny opening in the corner to push the earbuds through. this has the added benefit that it can be removed many times without damaging it, while the foam cover only survives 6-7 cleanings for me before it starts to fall apart.

Does the Fengru emx500 sound pretty good? I'm eyeing it, if it's the same one

Edit: Yeah it's the same as yours. Same store