Earbuds Round-Up

[dubudubutofu]

anyone interested buying blur with silver housing? i might sell mine as ived purchase another blur with silver housing

 

[fidgeraldo]

first impressions—bad or good—are often worthless

Hmm, that could be an example of how different people are...In my case, in the first 30 seconds of listening, I have the most accurate opinion about the sound.
Everything above that is building prejudice and accommodating to the new sound. By the way, everything above 30 seconds is no longer a new sound.
But...a wonderful world of diversity.

Cheers!

 

[dykzei]

Hmm, that could be an example of how different people are...In my case, in the first 30 seconds of listening, I have the most accurate opinion about the sound.
Everything above that is building prejudice and accommodating to the new sound. By the way, everything above 30 seconds is no longer a new sound.
But...a wonderful world of diversity.

Cheers!

Yep, will return TD26 if I may as it says free returns within 90 days, as I refuse to ever put this thing in my ears ever again

 

[Hypops]

This is a VERY common tuning policy for a very large percentage of earbuds that come out of China. Even sets that the consensus is very good and are TOTL have a boost in this region (some much more than others), and it will just come down to whether you are able to live with it, or it is too much for your ears to handle or not. Some are boosted as little as being "fatiguing" over time, and others are downright shouty out of the box...

I am very sensitive to this area, and some sets I have, I love the sound of but either need PEQ/EQ or lots of foam rolling to get them to agree with my ears.

There ARE sets that aren't offensive in this realm at all though. Some (store-bought, and ones still available) that I could mention (all of which I own; there are most likely more, but I have not heard them) that are not offensive at all might be:

• DUNU Alpha 3
• FiiO FF5 & FF1
• HB1 300Ω
• Penon Conductor
• Moondrop Chaconne
• (formerly Fengru) DR08

Others that can be fatiquing, but that I wouldn't consider to be shouty (ones that are definitely tolerable for my sensitive ears) might be:

• OG FiiO FF3
• Yincrow RW2000 & RW3000
• OG NiceHCK EB2S

And that is not even mentioning DIY buds that you can either assemble yourself or purchase off of some of the more "known" sellers. Most of those have no offensive tuning in this area at all either. @mt877 has posted quite a few easy DIY builds that are simply amazing (well the two that I have heard), and you should check those out if you get a chance.

Excellent. Thanks. Currently vacillating between using PEQ and going naked while waiting on some foams and whatnot to try some other tweaks. That steep pinna gain peak is not necessarily off-putting, but it is distinct and noticeable.

Keep in mind that both the OG FF3 and the FF3S are indeed TOTL buds, and this is fairly close to the original price that they came out with. I also think that the OG FF3 might be different than any other buds you have heard to this point; though I can't be sure because I don't really know your experience with earbuds yet, other than the Afuls. They (OG FF3) are and have been much beloved on this thread for their bass presence, and quality (along with their overall great sonic properties).

I've only got experience with the one earbud for now (other than assorted cheapies over the years). Maybe the OG FF3 would be the better option for me then, rather than the revised FF3s?

Hmm, that could be an example of how different people are...In my case, in the first 30 seconds of listening, I have the most accurate opinion about the sound.
Everything above that is building prejudice and accommodating to the new sound. By the way, everything above 30 seconds is no longer a new sound.
But...a wonderful world of diversity.

Cheers!

Yeah, you've probably heard me ranting on this same subject enough over in the Disco thread already, so I won't do the deep neuroscience dive. But those first 30 seconds do weird things to your brain's hearing abilities. Things like rapid AB or ABX testing work a bit like jumping out of a steamy hot tub into an ice cold bath/ocean/lake. The contrast gets exaggerated well beyond objective reality. Same goes for first impressions (without comparisons). In my experience, it's not accurate relative to where I ultimately land on a new piece of audio gear. I prefer the "long take." But as in all things audio related, YMMV.

 

[fidgeraldo]

Things like rapid AB or ABX testing work a bit like jumping out of a steamy hot tub into an ice cold bath/ocean/lake.

Hmm, I don't do A/B tests at all.
What I do is listen to the music, and I have pretty good awareness of what I hear, along with long-term experience.
Honestly, I pay attention only to the music, and I know how the music I listen to sounds... in so many ways, with all the gear I have, and there's plenty.

I am not an audiophile...I just love to listen to music a loooot.

Cheers!

 

[jeejack]

Two in a row...
This time PK2 16 ohm.
So far we have three amazing 14.8mm drivers 16, 32 and 150 ohm red film.

 

[Hypops]

Whoa. Silicone rings are 100% transformative for me on the PolarNight. Fit is now great with no foams, donuts, and full foams. Now time to play with different foams and combos. Awesome.

 

[ttorbic]

Whoa. Silicone rings are 100% transformative for me on the PolarNight. Fit is now great with no foams, donuts, and full foams. Now time to play with different foams and combos. Awesome.

Congrats, big ear holes glad you've found a solution!

 

[droenald]

why have DIY talks moved there from the DIY Earbuds thread which is now languishing?

Because it's boring over there simply put. If I take a hard look at myself I might also be posting DIY stuff here because I dont want to talk to an audience of zero. I might need the attention to be honest...

Because it's more fun to read something other than reviews. The more diverse it is, the more interesting it is.
We're still talking about earbuds, nothing else. I don't think anyone was upset.
Why do you feel bothered?

That's maybe just you, @mt877 and me thinking it's more fun than reading reviews, brother!
Also the hope when posting about DIY projects is to animate others to get into it. DIY has added a whole new layer of enjoyment to the earbud hobby for me. It is incredibly satisfying to listen to an earbud that did cost you 20€ in materials and you think to yourself: "If I had payed 300$ for that I would also think this is a great earbud and I'd be happy with the purchase."
On top of that if you really do lash out 300$ for an earbud, chances still are that it doesn't suit your preferences, even though you where digging into it, read reviews and have asked around on the internet.
DIY can be a way for self-realisation. It certainly is for me!
And the learning curve is really steep, you see progress very fast. Learning to play a new instrument is for instance way more tedious...

Now the good: Everything else!

Yay! I am very happy for you!
Nice to hear that their product is good. That's actually what I was fearing all along! Still they won't get my money seeing the marketing tactics they use.
It is important for me to use my power as a consumer. It is one of the only powers we have left in this society.

GO DONKEY

I did!

This will also serve as a little update on the Trigrain foams. The white foams on top have been used on an earbud that I was A/B ing with an earbud with red foams. Even though I had washed the red foams they lost some color in my ears and have stained the white ones. The staining looks actually stronger in persona than on the photo.
Otherwise these are one of the best foams I have used so far. They are stretchy and can be taken on and off the earbuds very often and will not get loose.
About the donkey build:
I have listened to it the whole day at work. This is an instant hit and can easily compete with the DBX, RW-3000 (which has developed channel imbalance btw!! ) and VE SMG. The driver is technically absolutely competitive here. Crazy good dynamics and transient response. This paired with the most evenly balanced response from bass to treble makes for extremely good separation, imaging and natural soundstaging that does not push itself on you as soundtaging that is achieved via wonky tuning does. Timbre is absolutely lifelike except for the lowest register. Male voices are not yet affected. There seems to be a very steep bass rolloff happening maybe around 100 hz. Bassdrum sounds dry and with too little decay because the lowest frequencies of the bass drum that linger longer than the main sound are absent. A very slight bummer.
Here again: DIY is awesome and everyone should try it. The good thing is I can try to find the bass extension via a bass tube maybe. Worst thing that can happen is it'll sound worse afterwards and I don't suceed no matter how hard I try. Then I just put it in new shells and tune it as it was before. Still a great sounding bud as is.
@sofastreamer I'll put this in the package when I am done with it ( and the other stuff I'm cooking). Knowing you're a stagehead this should be totally up your alley.
I could rave on about this creation, but I fear @tOMZY will object, so I'll leve it at that.
I have to thank @jeejack for taking my hand and guiding me through the process of building these buds. Thank you bro!

I’ve been around the audiophile block enough times to know that first impressions—bad or good—are often worthless.

Hmm, that could be an example of how different people are...In my case, in the first 30 seconds of listening, I have the most accurate opinion about the sound.
Everything above that is building prejudice and accommodating to the new sound. By the way, everything above 30 seconds is no longer a new sound.

For me both is true. Within 30 seconds I'll know if I don't like a bud. If it's good or good-ish I'll need more time. Sometimes even months. The RW-3000 was just about to finally dethrone the DBX as my favorite bud before it started to break. And I had been thinking about selling it again after 2 or 3 weeks...
@Hypops
Happy to hear the silicone rings work. I'll be exited to hear what you think about the PolarNight now that you can sample the real sound of it!

 

[ttorbic]

@sofastreamer I'll put this in the package when I am done with it ( and the other stuff I'm cooking). Knowing you're a stagehead this should be totally up your alley.

I want a package
Congrats on the build!

 

[audioaura]

I have both the OG FF3 and FF3S, between the two of them I like the OG FF3 better. Not saying that the FF3S are bad buds at all, just mentioning my preference.


In general full foams don't boost the bass, their real effect is filtering the higher frequencies, which has the effect of boosting the bass, when in reality the bass remains the same, but you now hear more of the bass because the higher frequencies are filtered out a bit. Foams whether they are full or donut foams aid in getting a better, more solid fit for your earbuds in the concha area of your ear. The better fit has a major impact on the bass. That's why you can press earbuds into the concha and you will hear the bass increase and when you let go, the bass returns to the previous level.

Here's an example to think about. Lets say that you had a high density foam which has a smaller diameter, it would need to stretch more to fit your earbud. The stretching pulls the pores of the foam further apart so those high density foams may act like medium density foams. Whereas you may have another brand of high density foams with a slightly bigger or normal diameter. Since they are a little bigger, they don't stretch as much to fit your earbuds. The foam pores don't pull apart as much and as a result the higher frequencies are filtered more. You would probably use those foams to lessen unwanted higher frequency peaks for instance or "tame the frontal lobe icepick" frequencies so to speak. Donut foams have the benefit of providing a better fit which somewhat increases the bass while still allowing higher frequencies to pass through unfiltered.

The best plan is to have quality foams of different density so that you can use them to fine tune both fit and sound of your earbuds. Another tip for proper fit is to make sure the cable from the splitter up to the earbuds are at least neutral, meaning no undue twist which can affect how the buds will fit into your concha. Having silicone rings which will increase the diameter of the earbud shell can help with fit. You can put on a silicone ring on the naked shell and a foam covering the ring may be another method for a better fit. You can also use earbud wings to help stablize and hold your earbuds in place as well.

Hope that helps.

Great points! Totally agree with you on the foams and how they affect the fit more than the bass itself. The way higher frequencies get filtered is what gives that perceived bass boost. I’ve definitely noticed that pressing the buds into the ear helps the bass, so the fit really is everything.

 

[AsciiJC]

Two in a row...
This time PK2 16 ohm.
So far we have three amazing 14.8mm drivers 16, 32 and 150 ohm red film.

Still my fave pre-existing shell shape, the PK!

Would love to see more of these kind of shells be brought into the world of buds again'

 

[Hypops]

In general full foams don't boost the bass, their real effect is filtering the higher frequencies, which has the effect of boosting the bass, when in reality the bass remains the same, but you now hear more of the bass because the higher frequencies are filtered out a bit. Foams whether they are full or donut foams aid in getting a better, more solid fit for your earbuds in the concha area of your ear. The better fit has a major impact on the bass. That's why you can press earbuds into the concha and you will hear the bass increase and when you let go, the bass returns to the previous level.

Here's an example to think about. Lets say that you had a high density foam which has a smaller diameter, it would need to stretch more to fit your earbud. The stretching pulls the pores of the foam further apart so those high density foams may act like medium density foams. Whereas you may have another brand of high density foams with a slightly bigger or normal diameter. Since they are a little bigger, they don't stretch as much to fit your earbuds. The foam pores don't pull apart as much and as a result the higher frequencies are filtered more. You would probably use those foams to lessen unwanted higher frequency peaks for instance or "tame the frontal lobe icepick" frequencies so to speak. Donut foams have the benefit of providing a better fit which somewhat increases the bass while still allowing higher frequencies to pass through unfiltered.

The best plan is to have quality foams of different density so that you can use them to fine tune both fit and sound of your earbuds. Another tip for proper fit is to make sure the cable from the splitter up to the earbuds are at least neutral, meaning no undue twist which can affect how the buds will fit into your concha. Having silicone rings which will increase the diameter of the earbud shell can help with fit. You can put on a silicone ring on the naked shell and a foam covering the ring may be another method for a better fit. You can also use earbud wings to help stablize and hold your earbuds in place as well.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for this. I've cycled through a few different combinations on the PolarNight and think I've landed on the ring + full foam (ring + no foam is a close second). Seems to give the best of all worlds: good bass response and toned down upper mids without losing the top end. Sounds excellent currently.

I'm discovering what you all in this thread probably know very well. Managing bass leak is key. Not enough leak and the bass gets nasty and bloaty. Too much leak and the overall balance goes thin. Managing foams/rings seems to be all about balancing bass leak against top-end filtering. This is fun!

 

[mt877]

I received my Penon Conductor yesterday, and I thought I would share my experience (thus far) with you. First some pictures (I won't share the whole unboxing experience since most of you have seen all of that before):

Spoiler

I'll start with the bad. I REALLY don't appreciate the dishonesty that Penon has shown here (all the way from their advertising tactics, to the use of the term "bone conductor" where these earbuds are concerned). These are neither bone conducting (which I sort of knew to begin with, this is the whole reason I bought these; in case you hadn't read my rant about these earlier), nor do they have any sort of tactile vibration that you can "feel". The third option for a vibration unit (not bone conducting driver), I hadn't considered because it is actually really a stupid idea (sorry to sound so harsh about it, but that is how it seems to me). How these actually are working is that the vibration unit in these is indeed vibrating, but it isn't strong enough to actually feel, and is located in such a place that you wouldn't feel it anyhow. Instead of feeling the vibration, you HEAR it. It is a very low buzz. And as you dial more into it, the louder the buzz gets.

Think of this as being exactly like you would get from a game controller, except you can't feel it, you can hear the buzz it makes. This is where I finally made the connection from (no less than) one review I read that said that as you dial more energy into the driver, the sound gets muddy sounding down low. What is actually happening here is that introducing more of a noticeable buzzing sound makes it sound like the driver is distorting or a lot of grain sound; like would happen if you tried to increase bass response on a very small speaker of something like +12dB that just can't handle it.

Another bad (for me anyhow) is that they are some of the hardest to get a good fitment in my ears. Of course this is specific to just me potentially, and YMMV. This is the first set that I (almost) have to wear over ear. They DO fit well once I adopted this method though, so I suppose "poor fitment" is nullified.

Now the good: Everything else!

I REALLY don't get why Penon didn't just sell these as regular buds (and do away with the gimmicky BS) because these things are REALLY good. They are definitely high-end and worth the asking price on sound qualities alone IMHO. Take this with a grain of salt because I have only had them for a day, and these are very early impressions. But, sometimes you just know after listening for an hour or two. With this set, that is exactly how I feel. I won't share complete thoughts about ALL aspects of the sound for the very reason I just mentioned.

I DO find these to be beautiful (if a bit unorthodox, and large). I STILL think they look like a yoyo... They seem to be built very solid, though they are plastic. I love the cable. These things just have an elegance that you can't really get from a picture. Also, the accessories are very abundant, and the carry case is very nice (if not a bit big).

As for sound, I have to say that I was thoroughly shocked about this. They have a super balanced sound (nothing offensive or off, tonally). One of the things that I have mentioned in the past is that I always look for the drums to all sound at the same level volume to sound balanced. These have that (that included the bass drum as well). These have two very unique aspects that most buds just don't possess.

The first is that the bass is very linear on this set. There is no "super boosting" of the mid or upper bass to compensate for the lack of sub bass. I mean, the bass area overall is indeed boosted, but all frequencies are boosted equally. This leads to the other unique aspect; the sub bass. These things can reach lower in the spectrum than any other set I have heard thus far. So, while the amplitude of the bass overall is indeed north of neutral, it is done in a tasteful way. Bassheads would like this set (even though I still wouldn't consider them basshead buds). The quality of the bass is also top notch on this set. Layering, texturing, slam, and rumble are all there for you to hear.

The mids are nice and warm, but not overly thick like you might have on a "dark" set. I wouldn't say that they are so warm that I would call them "sweet" though. I find the male and female vocals to be at equal levels, and very clear. There is just nothing wrong in this area. I am sem-shocked that there isn't a boost in the upper mids. There is JUST enough of a peak there that it lends presence to everything in that area (imagine that, actual presence in the presence region?! ). But they are NOT fatiguing or shouty at all in this region. Even heavy metal works well in this set. Fantastic!

The mid treble is a tiny bit boosted, but not enough to effect the overall tonal quality of the overall sound. It seems to be just right to add great attack and note weight to everything. Also, the upper treble is extended and so these have some fantastic air about them. None of this is to say that there is any sibilance. Though there might be enough of a boost for those that are super sensitive to treble that they could be considered fatiguing in the area (though it would have to be someone that REALLY likes rolled off or relaxed treble).

All this to say that the technicalities are also excellent. Resolution and clarity are top notch, and bass doesn't intrude on anything it isn't supposed to. They are wide, deep, and tall (though I wouldn't say they are the best in any of these categories, but better than average). Micro and macro dynamics are brilliant as well. I would call this a very tasteful and slight W tuning (something that earbuds aren't normally able to achieve in the alphabet ).

Overall I think that these are for folks looking for a critical listen, and they are also for those wanting great PRAT or a fun sound... They really do have both without sounding like they are struggling to do either. Another word I might use for these might be "smooth".

Having said all of that, I don't know if I would have ever bought these, even with good recommendations, because of the fact that I really don't like how Penon does business. What a shame too because they have actually stumbled on to a formula that is really really good. Doing a blind listen, I would put these in the top 5 on my "likes" list. Take the "gimmick" away, and these are definitely TOTL buds.

Congrats on your new shinys! It's too bad that you have to manipulate them to fit your ears better. I wasn't very shocked about hearing that the "bone conducting" feature being a fraud. Good thing you can turn it off, well I hope the lowest setting is fully disabled so that you can enjoy how they really sound.

Congrats on your new shiny(s)!

WOW! That is an amazing thing, and I don't think that you could have made it come out better if you had actually coordinated it together.

I look forward to more impressions from all three of you.

One of us didn't like them at all and will be returning them for a full refund. I do like how they sound, especially after I switched to HieGi full foams. We'll all have to wait with bated breath for @lordearl's impressions.

Because it's boring over there simply put. If I take a hard look at myself I might also be posting DIY stuff here because I dont want to talk to an audience of zero. I might need the attention to be honest...

That's maybe just you, @mt877 and me thinking it's more fun than reading reviews, brother!
Also the hope when posting about DIY projects is to animate others to get into it. DIY has added a whole new layer of enjoyment to the earbud hobby for me. It is incredibly satisfying to listen to an earbud that did cost you 20€ in materials and you think to yourself: "If I had payed 300$ for that I would also think this is a great earbud and I'd be happy with the purchase."
On top of that if you really do lash out 300$ for an earbud, chances still are that it doesn't suit your preferences, even though you where digging into it, read reviews and have asked around on the internet.
DIY can be a way for self-realisation. It certainly is for me!
And the learning curve is really steep, you see progress very fast. Learning to play a new instrument is for instance way more tedious...

Hehe, I've posted a few times in the DIY thread, it's not the same as posting here. Most of the people that post in the DIY thread hang out here as well. Like don't dare post comments, impressions or reviews in DIY, you'd be totally off topic. Post some DIY, comments, impressions, reviews or some off topic side chatter here and it all fits into the groove of the Round-Up, just sprinkle in a few words about your favorite buds and you're covered.

Yay! I am very happy for you!
Nice to hear that their product is good. That's actually what I was fearing all along! Still they won't get my money seeing the marketing tactics they use.
It is important for me to use my power as a consumer. It is one of the only powers we have left in this society.

I did!

This will also serve as a little update on the Trigrain foams. The white foams on top have been used on an earbud that I was A/B ing with an earbud with red foams. Even though I had washed the red foams they lost some color in my ears and have stained the white ones. The staining looks actually stronger in persona than on the photo.
Otherwise these are one of the best foams I have used so far. They are stretchy and can be taken on and off the earbuds very often and will not get loose.

I'm one of the fine folks that said the Trig Rain foams will bleed their color. Way back when, the red foams bled their color onto one of my white dress shirts, that's when I stopped using their foams.

About the donkey build:
I have listened to it the whole day at work. This is an instant hit and can easily compete with the DBX, RW-3000 (which has developed channel imbalance btw!! ) and VE SMG. The driver is technically absolutely competitive here. Crazy good dynamics and transient response. This paired with the most evenly balanced response from bass to treble makes for extremely good separation, imaging and natural soundstaging that does not push itself on you as soundtaging that is achieved via wonky tuning does. Timbre is absolutely lifelike except for the lowest register. Male voices are not yet affected. There seems to be a very steep bass rolloff happening maybe around 100 hz. Bassdrum sounds dry and with too little decay because the lowest frequencies of the bass drum that linger longer than the main sound are absent. A very slight bummer.
Here again: DIY is awesome and everyone should try it. The good thing is I can try to find the bass extension via a bass tube maybe. Worst thing that can happen is it'll sound worse afterwards and I don't suceed no matter how hard I try. Then I just put it in new shells and tune it as it was before. Still a great sounding bud as is.
@sofastreamer I'll put this in the package when I am done with it ( and the other stuff I'm cooking). Knowing you're a stagehead this should be totally up your alley.
I could rave on about this creation, but I fear @tOMZY will object, so I'll leve it at that.
I have to thank @jeejack for taking my hand and guiding me through the process of building these buds. Thank you bro!

Nice looking build with those shorty mx500 mmcx shells. Do you think not having the cable port of a regular mx500 shell is contributing to the good sound you're hearing?

For me both is true. Within 30 seconds I'll know if I don't like a bud. If it's good or good-ish I'll need more time. Sometimes even months. The RW-3000 was just about to finally dethrone the DBX as my favorite bud before it started to break. And I had been thinking about selling it again after 2 or 3 weeks...
@Hypops
Happy to hear the silicone rings work. I'll be exited to hear what you think about the PolarNight now that you can sample the real sound of it!

I think most people around here can determine in a relatively short time whether they like a set of buds or not. For example if there's some terrible midrange peak that you just can't stand, you'll probably notice it right away as not normal to your personal sound preferences. I think folks like us who have been into the head gear scene for some time are definitely more critical than the average music consumer and can discern if we like a set of head gear or not after a few listening sessions. Having said that, I'm sure that there are also cases where people totally dismiss a set of head gear at the beginning and a few weeks or months later they try them again and the dismissed head gear all of a sudden sound great. And of course the opposite is true as well. There's the cases where a set of head gear sound offputting, and no matter how much you want to like them, they will never sound exactly right to you.

Thanks for this. I've cycled through a few different combinations on the PolarNight and think I've landed on the ring + full foam (ring + no foam is a close second). Seems to give the best of all worlds: good bass response and toned down upper mids without losing the top end. Sounds excellent currently.

I'm discovering what you all in this thread probably know very well. Managing bass leak is key. Not enough leak and the bass gets nasty and bloaty. Too much leak and the overall balance goes thin. Managing foams/rings seems to be all about balancing bass leak against top-end filtering. This is fun!

You nailed my friend! I'm glad my thoughts were helpful. Welcome to the world of Flat Head Earbud Nirvana!

 

[droenald]

Nice looking build with those shorty mx500 mmcx shells. Do you think not having the cable port of a regular mx500 shell is contributing to the good sound you're hearing?

It is in fact the main point of this build to not have any uncontrolled air leakage and the reason I decided to build it in this shell instead of going to great lenghts to try and get the cable channel sealed in the regular mx500 shell. I think you are in for a real treat with the Tmusic bud you have incoming, the driver has really great technicalities. The reason I am 95% sure this bud uses the "donkey" is that this one needs very little ventilation, and the shell the Tmusic utilizes has next to no venting.

You nailed my friend! I'm glad my thoughts were helpful. Welcome to the world of Flat Head Earbud Nirvana!

And another one has defected to the light side!
@Hypops how do you find the staging on your PolarNight? This is one of the big advantages of earbuds over iems that the music does not feel so caved in in your head.
Another thing is that in IEMs the amount of subbass can make the bass sound slow. A good earbud usually has fast and clean bass. Depending on your preferred musical genre this can be a good or bad of course... On the other hand a lot of earbuds have a lot of midbass and bass bleed to the midrange. From what I've read so far the Polarnight keeps it very clean there!