I haven't heard them, sorry. I think Penon was looking for reviewers to try these several weeks ago - maybe you can reach out to Penon to see if they still want a reviewer?Has anyone on here gotten around to trying the Shozy Cygnus Makes yet? As someone who likes the BKs and only got rid of the OG Cygnus because I had buds that I thought were similar in sound/tuning, but outperformed them otherwise, I have been wondering how they did with the Mk2s. The OG Cygnus are a cool pair of buds and I actually enjoyed them while I had them. If the Most are a true step up, especially in the technical performance category, I'd definitely have to give some thought about buying a pair to hear for myself.
If anyone has tried them and can give me/us some impressions I'd be eternally grateful. As a matter of fact, if anyone has even heard anything about their performance via word of mouth from someone who has heard them I'd be interested in hearing about that too. Thanks in advance!
Earbuds Round-Up
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Thanks very much for your thoughts...I don't have experience with the ifi, but in my experience with two past hybrid tube amps that used the 5670 style tubes and their analogs, the GE5670s were always my choice even above the WE396A which is also a very nice tube. As for Electro-Harmonix, their tubes have always been average at best (and sometimes downright terrible) when I have tried them in various amps so I wouldn't recommend them.
That said, tube rolling is always fun and much like anything else that affects the sound of a particular rig, it comes down to personal choice so identifying a few good options and giving them a whirl is the way to go, IMO. The mil spec GE JAN 5670W and Wester Electric WE396A are the two tubes in that family (5670, 396A, 2C51, etc) that stand out above the rest, IMO/IME so I'd definitely encourage you to include those tubes in any rolling experiment you do with your new amp.
P.S. I'm glad you caught that 6922/ECC88/6DJ8 is not compatible with 5670 (at least not directly).
Which two hybrid tube amps did you have in the past? Keep in mind that the iFi is not a hybrid tube amp. It has two class A discrete fully balanced circuits (probably one of the reasons for the added cost). And they have the NOS GE 5670 tubes that iFi says they have reworked to last much longer (though it doesn't say how they accomplished this). Having said that, could you offer the differences in the 5670 and the WE396A? I know that you usually go for more aggressive sound (which I find the 5670 to be even over my Nutube amp card on the DX300), so was wondering if this is what made that one your choice in the 6922 family?! And of course here is an older list of (this person's) favorites.
OH? I guess I DIDN'T catch that (at least not for the iCan Sig). I have been reading that any of the 6922 family of tubes would be a direct replacement, though none of the others unless some sort of adapter is used. Thanks for pointing that out. I will research further.
Edit: Well, it appears you are right (and I am glad you DID bring it to my attention). Here is what I found about the 5670:
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OH! Your right. I remember commenting that they were blatantly advertising on this thread... ROFL
@JAnonymous5150 look at @ penon's profile and see if you can find the post, or you can do a search on this thread to find it.
I'm glad JA gave a reply to your OG questions because I'm not familiar with those tubes. iFi is very good at selecting and designing with top components in mind for their gear. I found this head-fi thread about the 5670 and variants which might be helpful. I'm sure you've been searching the web for tube info and it's pretty daunting because everyone has their own opinions on which manufacturers or variant of the same tube is better.Thanks very much for your thoughts...
Which two hybrid tube amps did you have in the past? Keep in mind that the iFi is not a hybrid tube amp. It has two class A discrete fully balanced circuits (probably one of the reasons for the added cost). And they have the NOS GE 5670 tubes that iFi says they have reworked to last much longer (though it doesn't say how they accomplished this). Having said that, could you offer the differences in the 5670 and the WE396A? I know that you usually go for more aggressive sound (which I find the 5670 to be even over my Nutube amp card on the DX300), so was wondering if this is what made that one your choice in the 6922 family?! And of course here is an older list of (this person's) favorites.
OH? I guess I DIDN'T catch that (at least not for the iCan Sig). I have been reading that any of the 6922 family of tubes would be a direct replacement, though none of the others unless some sort of adapter is used. Thanks for pointing that out. I will research further.
Edit: Well, it appears you are right (and I am glad you DID bring it to my attention). Here is what I found about the 5670:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/5670-w396a-2c51-6n3p-tube-thread.680910/
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Thank you for the link... I read that one as well. I also found a forum where iFi posted a kind of history of the JAN GE 5670W valve (and its 5670 family), and why they chose it (which is a pretty interesting read) HERE.
Survivor
New Head-Fier
Today I finally got a new addition to the collection from the spring sale - TMusic EP6, 400 ohms with a graphene diaphragm and wooden shells. The seller sold them to me without a cable for $20. Now I have several unused inexpensive NiceHCK and XINHS cables, and even with them the earbuds play perfectly, and, of course, they require a better cable.
Congrats on your new shiny!Today I finally got a new addition to the collection from the spring sale - TMusic EP6, 400 ohms with a graphene diaphragm and wooden shells. The seller sold them to me without a cable for $20. Now I have several unused inexpensive NiceHCK and XINHS cables, and even with them the earbuds play perfectly, and, of course, they require a better cable.
They sure are pretty.
Do you have any impressions on the sound of these?
anli
100+ Head-Fier
I guess such large impedance brings additional side effect: it may turn out that the buds sounding may be indifferent to cables in use.
Thank you for that link,, it's very interesting. The tubes for my integrated amp, the iFi Retro Stereo 50 are what iFi call "EL84X" are similar in how they found the tube to use in the amp.. They mention that the EL84X is a NOS Mil-spec tube which performs better (more power) than a standard EL84. The pinouts are slightly different between the 2 tubes, but that a standard EL84 can be used in the amp after pulling a jumper on the tube socket circuit board. iFi does not release the true tube designation for their relabeled EL84X for their own reasons.
I agree. Or, at least the change in overall tone (not to be confused with the FR) could be more subtle (i.e. copper vs silver differences would be a bit diminished as you increase impedance).
On the other hand, it would also come down to the sensitivity as to whether this "tone" change difference would be more or less subtle. That is also dependent on whether one is able to hear differences in a cable swap in the first place. Some dismiss the premise that cables change the overall sound because their ears simply cannot hear it.
Having said all of that, I am hoping to NOT start the same ole' argument of whether one can or cannot hear differences in cable swaps.
- peace
You are very welcome!
Since this is regarding mostly the gear we use to drive our beloved earbuds, I will put the body of my post behind a spoiler container so that those not interested can breeze right by it without having to scroll as much.Do you like the EL84X? Interesting that they won't divulge the designation. There seems to be quite a few EL84 tube variants out there (i.e. Mullard, JJ, Russian variant 7189, etc...), and they seem to be very well liked as well.
After explaining why they use some of the valve tubes they use, it makes perfect sense why they like using NOS tubes. Current/contemporary tubes don't seem to be as good as they used to be when made for different purposes. And the more I read about the JAN GE 5670W, the more I think I might just stick with them when the time comes to switch them out (which I am hoping will potentially not happen for a VERY long time with a projected life of 100,000 hours).
After looking at MANY different forums (and the like) some people love the 560W, and others like others much better. Though I have seen those that like even the russian variant (6N3P-E) much better, but it is just not as common and most don't like them at all. The common three that some seem to like better than the JAN GE 5670W are the much older variants of the JAN GE itself, the Bendix, and Western Electric. All of which are made starting from the 80s and backwards (some reaching into the 40s).
As for me, I might be tempted to try the other two (Bendix, or WE) except that they are getting very rare, so are priced higher than I am willing to pay for (what boils down to a) light bulb. I think I might just buy a couple sets of the JAN GE 5670W in the near future (because they ARE NOS and not still being produced) because I can get a pair for $40, or $45 if matched...
As for the iCan Sig specifically, I have read a lot of people say that they can't hear the "tubeyness" at all on it. Well, I completely disagree. It might not the be typical amount of overall distortion added with other tubes, but it does exactly what tubes are supposed to do, while keeping the details and clarity of SS (even though SS circuit is completely off at that point). I, for one don't want it to add TOO much distortion. I would have to totally agree with @JAnonymous5150 on these tubes. I have been going back and forth with my DX300 with Nutube, and while it has more of the "tube" effect, I find the iCan Sig (in tube mode) does an overall better job with highs and lows for what it is supposed to be doing without affecting too much change on the overall sound profile.
After explaining why they use some of the valve tubes they use, it makes perfect sense why they like using NOS tubes. Current/contemporary tubes don't seem to be as good as they used to be when made for different purposes. And the more I read about the JAN GE 5670W, the more I think I might just stick with them when the time comes to switch them out (which I am hoping will potentially not happen for a VERY long time with a projected life of 100,000 hours).
After looking at MANY different forums (and the like) some people love the 560W, and others like others much better. Though I have seen those that like even the russian variant (6N3P-E) much better, but it is just not as common and most don't like them at all. The common three that some seem to like better than the JAN GE 5670W are the much older variants of the JAN GE itself, the Bendix, and Western Electric. All of which are made starting from the 80s and backwards (some reaching into the 40s).
As for me, I might be tempted to try the other two (Bendix, or WE) except that they are getting very rare, so are priced higher than I am willing to pay for (what boils down to a) light bulb. I think I might just buy a couple sets of the JAN GE 5670W in the near future (because they ARE NOS and not still being produced) because I can get a pair for $40, or $45 if matched...
As for the iCan Sig specifically, I have read a lot of people say that they can't hear the "tubeyness" at all on it. Well, I completely disagree. It might not the be typical amount of overall distortion added with other tubes, but it does exactly what tubes are supposed to do, while keeping the details and clarity of SS (even though SS circuit is completely off at that point). I, for one don't want it to add TOO much distortion. I would have to totally agree with @JAnonymous5150 on these tubes. I have been going back and forth with my DX300 with Nutube, and while it has more of the "tube" effect, I find the iCan Sig (in tube mode) does an overall better job with highs and lows for what it is supposed to be doing without affecting too much change on the overall sound profile.
All the above to say that I guess it just comes down to subjective preference if all other things are equal (quality, longevity, etc...) where tubes are concerned. And where this matter applies to earbuds, is that I have noticed (as seen from a couple of my earlier posts) that even those of my earbuds that could be considered the worst offenders for the boost in presence region can be tamed simply flicking a switch with a good tube (that does its job well).
Very sorry for such a long post, but I DID put it in a spoiler container for those not interested.
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I agree. Or, at least the change in overall tone (not to be confused with the FR) could be more subtle (i.e. copper vs silver differences would be a bit diminished as you increase impedance).
On the other hand, it would also come down to the sensitivity as to whether this "tone" change difference would be more or less subtle. That is also dependent on whether one is able to hear differences in a cable swap in the first place. Some dismiss the premise that cables change the overall sound because their ears simply cannot hear it.
Having said all of that, I am hoping to NOT start the same ole' argument of whether one can or cannot hear differences in cable swaps.
- peace
You are very welcome!
Do you like the EL84X? Interesting that they won't divulge the designation. There seems to be quite a few EL84 tube variants out there (i.e. Mullard, JJ, Russian variant 7189, etc...), and they seem to be very well liked as well.
After explaining why they use some of the valve tubes they use, it makes perfect sense why they like using NOS tubes. Current/contemporary tubes don't seem to be as good as they used to be when made for different purposes. And the more I read about the JAN GE 5670W, the more I think I might just stick with them when the time comes to switch them out (which I am hoping will potentially not happen for a VERY long time with a projected life of 100,000 hours).
After looking at MANY different forums (and the like) some people love the 560W, and others like others much better. Though I have seen those that like even the russian variant (6N3P-E) much better, but it is just not as common and most don't like them at all. The common three that some seem to like better than the JAN GE 5670W are the much older variants of the JAN GE itself, the Bendix, and Western Electric. All of which are made starting from the 80s and backwards (some reaching into the 40s).
As for me, I might be tempted to try the other two (Bendix, or WE) except that they are getting very rare, so are priced higher than I am willing to pay for (what boils down to a) light bulb. I think I might just buy a couple sets of the JAN GE 5670W in the near future (because they ARE NOS and not still being produced) because I can get a pair for $40, or $45 if matched...
As for the iCan Sig specifically, I have read a lot of people say that they can't hear the "tubeyness" at all on it. Well, I completely disagree. It might not the be typical amount of overall distortion added with other tubes, but it does exactly what tubes are supposed to do, while keeping the details and clarity of SS (even though SS circuit is completely off at that point). I, for one don't want it to add TOO much distortion. I would have to totally agree with @JAnonymous5150 on these tubes. I have been going back and forth with my DX300 with Nutube, and while it has more of the "tube" effect, I find the iCan Sig (in tube mode) does an overall better job with highs and lows for what it is supposed to be doing without affecting too much change on the overall sound profile.
All the above to say that I guess it just comes down to subjective preference if all other things are equal (quality, longevity, etc...) where tubes are concerned. And where this matter applies to earbuds, is that I have noticed (as seen from a couple of my earlier posts) that even those of my earbuds that could be considered the worst offenders for the boost in presence region can be tamed simply flicking a switch with a good tube (that does its job well).
Very sorry for such a long post, but I DID put it in a spoiler container for those not interested.
I like the EL84X and haven't done any tube rolling in the Stereo 50. The EL84 has always been known as a musically warm and smooth tube. I can understand iFi's position of not divulging what tube the EL84X really is. There's another tube, the 7189 which (afaik) isn't available anymore. It's a more powerful variant of the EL84 with same pinout, and maybe iFi found a huge batch of Soviet era 7189 type tubes which they relabeled as 'EL84X'. Of course it's all speculation.
One thing I've noticed is that iFi likes to cloak many things like the technical specs of their gear. I'm sure you've had fun trying to find some concrete specs of the Pro iCan Sig. iFi doesn't publish any data. I guess it's why worry about the specs as long as it sounds nice sort of thing with them.
As far as the tubeyness sound, the Pro iCan Sig should have it in spades. With only 2 triode ouput tubes (1 per channel) it's a SET amp and should have plenty of 2nd order harmonic distortion (the good kind), though some SET amps could have 3rd order harmonic distortion which kills some of the musicality.
One thing I've noticed is that iFi likes to cloak many things like the technical specs of their gear. I'm sure you've had fun trying to find some concrete specs of the Pro iCan Sig. iFi doesn't publish any data. I guess it's why worry about the specs as long as it sounds nice sort of thing with them.
As far as the tubeyness sound, the Pro iCan Sig should have it in spades. With only 2 triode ouput tubes (1 per channel) it's a SET amp and should have plenty of 2nd order harmonic distortion (the good kind), though some SET amps could have 3rd order harmonic distortion which kills some of the musicality.
Edit: My bad, I said you have a SET amp, but I forgot the 5670 is a dual triode tube, so it's probably a push-pull output. PP output has common mode rejection, so that could reduce any harmonics.
Back on topic...
Look what arrived today. Yongyao Yinman 32Ω buds. I thought I was buying 150Ω buds, but they measured 32Ω. Well, I guess that's typical of the AVCCK store not changing the title or description of the product. If you or anyone is looking for a set of buds that are easy to drive and have the sound / tonality almost like the Yinman 600, this is the set. I think this set could be an excellent side-grade to the FF3. Excellent bass with mids and treble that have good detail without being sibilant. The Yinman 600 still outclass these buds, but like I said the sound and tonality is in the same wheelhouse as the Yinman 600.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832675927781.html
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Yes, I read that the 7189 is a very coveted tube in the EL84 family. But, that is a good speculation (I sort of thought the same thing after reading the sourcing post about these).
It hasn't been really hard finding specs on the iCan Sig. Maybe they have changed things up a bit?! The problem I had in the beginning is they publish some WRONG information, get told about it, say they will work it into the newer manuals and fix website, but never do even after 2 years (in the case of the iCan Sig)... I have it all sorted out now. As for me, I only worried about the specs when deciding what I wanted to purchase. It had to have specs equal or better than the DX300, and because the DX300 is a BEAST in portable form, it was not an easy search while staying under $3K or so (I wasn't about to mortgage the house just for a headphone amplifier)... haha
Yes, you are correct, it does indeed have plenty on offer. The unique thing about this amp is that it actually has three modes. You would think that it is probably SS then hybrid, then tube right? Nope.... it is SS then tube circuit (second order harmonics dominate), then tube + (where all even order harmonics dominate). As can be expected the tube+ mode is pretty much overkill and changes things too much (for my ears), but it is like trading out one set of tubes for another (you know the way iFi gives you about a bazillion options on some of their stuff; another reason I had to have it btw).
But, again you have taught me something new that I need to know. I didn't realize the SET amps could have 3rd order harmonics dominate. Nor have I heard this in action to know what it might do... Good to know!
It hasn't been really hard finding specs on the iCan Sig. Maybe they have changed things up a bit?! The problem I had in the beginning is they publish some WRONG information, get told about it, say they will work it into the newer manuals and fix website, but never do even after 2 years (in the case of the iCan Sig)...
I have it all sorted out now. As for me, I only worried about the specs when deciding what I wanted to purchase. It had to have specs equal or better than the DX300, and because the DX300 is a BEAST in portable form, it was not an easy search while staying under $3K or so (I wasn't about to mortgage the house just for a headphone amplifier)... hahaYes, you are correct, it does indeed have plenty on offer. The unique thing about this amp is that it actually has three modes. You would think that it is probably SS then hybrid, then tube right? Nope.... it is SS then tube circuit (second order harmonics dominate), then tube + (where all even order harmonics dominate). As can be expected the tube+ mode is pretty much overkill and changes things too much (for my ears), but it is like trading out one set of tubes for another (you know the way iFi gives you about a bazillion options on some of their stuff; another reason I had to have it btw
). But, again you have taught me something new that I need to know. I didn't realize the SET amps could have 3rd order harmonics dominate. Nor have I heard this in action to know what it might do... Good to know!
Congrats on your new shiny!
Oh, those look fantastic. How is the cable on those? It looks like it might be more sturdy than the one on the 600's, but also it looks a bit stiff?! Are you planning on doing some A/Bing with the 600?
I ran across this song some time ago, and thought to share it here for those that aren't familiar. It actually doesn't sound bad at all, though repetetive. The value in the song is that it is very droll, or even outright entertaining... I guess I am one of the idiots (you'll see)
Had a great meeting with @baskingshark. Wish we had more time and I had taken some pictures! He tried some buds from @tgx78 of the TGXear fame and he liked it. Hope more people bet to hear Jim's creations! Love CanJam!
That is really cool... I wish you would have taken pictures as well, but either way I/we hope you had a great time.
How did you know that it was him (and he, you)? Did you discuss meeting up beforehand? Were there other buds/manufacturers there?
anli
100+ Head-Fier
Indeed. When we significantly increase source output impedance, we, in fact change voltage driver-moving control to current one. While it could result in blurred and/or reduced bass, it also could result in more even tonality and reduced distortions in MF-HF range.
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