[Brillig]

Glad to see another person finding the Yinman 600s to be their favorite earbuds I been quite happy with the THX 789 (paired to a RME ADI-2 DAC FS but any decent DAC should do). I run 12 o'clock on medium gain with the Yinmans. I believe you can get these used for sub-200 (they were selling new for 250 a while back and it easily beats the options you mentioned from a sheer performance standpoint. If you want to add some coloration to your mix, just get a cheap tube pre-amp (Joshua Valour has a video on that actually). I know previously you were recommended 1W @32 ohms but that is at the bare MINIMUM. Depending on your listening level, you might need a lot more power. The THX 789 can provide that in spades without breaking a sweat and still give you enough power to run even the most demanding headphones on the market.

Thanks! I will check this amp out.

 

[ttorbic]

Thanks! I will check this amp out.

I also recommend the ifi Zen CAN, if you have a dac already. Otherwise you'll need ifi Zen DAC as well

 

[Brillig]

I also recommend the ifi Zen CAN, if you have a dac already. Otherwise you'll need ifi Zen DAC as well

Thanks! How is the power on that one?

 

[Carpet]

A little box got handed to me by my Wife this morning. So much for stuff arriving unnoticed!

Inside were a pair of Yincrow X6. Much better fit for me than the EB2s so I'll be more keen on trying other buds in the MX500 style. Size of soundstage was impressive compared to IEMs and it's nice to have an option that lets in more ambient sound when I don't need isolation. Just as enjoyable a listen as some of my $50-$80 IEMs. I'm blown away by how good these sound.

 

[ttorbic]

Thanks! How is the power on that one?

https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-can/

As others have said, it's not just about spec sheet output power numbers. Some other metrics to consider:
- voltage
- output impedance (e.g., you know that Megatron is not suitable for sensitive transducers)
- DAC chips (e.g., ifi Zen DAC uses Burson chips, supposedly warmer tone than others)
- SNR

Ifi makes quality products, although they have their house sound so I'd recommend listening and reading more reviews if you're interested. It's also a UK based company, so might be a bit pricier in the US.

 

[Brillig]

https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-can/

As others have said, it's not just about spec sheet output power numbers. Some other metrics to consider:
- voltage
- output impedance (e.g., you know that Megatron is not suitable for sensitive transducers)
- DAC chips (e.g., ifi Zen DAC uses Burson chips, supposedly warmer tone than others)
- SNR

Ifi makes quality products, although they have their house sound so I'd recommend listening and reading more reviews if you're interested. It's also a UK based company, so might be a bit pricier in the US.

Thanks! I will take a closer look at this amp. It’s hard to make a choice without actually being able to listen to different amps. Anybody have any impressions on the Vali++?

 

[baskingshark]

ADVICE NEEDED RE HEADPHONE AMP!

I currently have a Megatron, and it's been good to me, but my favorite buds are my Yinman 600s, and I want to get the best out of them! Several people have posted that the Megatron is “good” with the Yinman 600s, but won’t bring out their full potential. I also have Sundaras, which I’m sure would open out more with additional power, and a Serratus and FF3. I want to be able to drive other high impedance buds if I get them.

So I’m looking for an amp, or amp/dac, hopefully under $200. I listen to classical, jazz, blues, male/female vocals, classic rock, world. I like some bass, but I’m not a basshead and don’t listen to metal, rap, or hip-hop.

@samandhi has recommended many times that an amp should have 1 W to 1.2 W @ 32 ohms for the Yinman 600s, and at least 80mW @ 600 ohms.


Megatron

• Many of you have one
• DAC: SABRE ESS9018K2M, bitcoding up to 24bit/96khz.
• MAIN QUESTION: Would it be good enough as a DAC with any of the amps below, or would I need to get something else? If so, what would you recommend?

Here are some of the amp and dac/amps I’ve been looking at, but I’m open to any brilliant suggestions!

Topping L50

• Lots of power @ balanced output
  • 2800mW x2 @32Ω
  • 290mW x2 @600Ω
• 3 gain settings
• Very high ratings from ASR (AudioScienceReview)
  • Too sterile?? Your opinions?

Schiit Vali ++

• Tube rolling sounds like fun (as long as I keep it sensible)
• I like a warmer sound. Love my Yinman 600s. (But also want soundstage, separation, detail, and timbre.)
• Looks like enough power for the Yinman 600s, right?
  • Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1500mW RMS per channel
  • Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 200mW RMS per channel
• No balanced output – does this matter?
• Low gain/high gain settings

Fiio K7

• Love to hear comments/recs from those who have one @o0genesis0o (especially comparing it to Megatron, especially with Yinman 600s)
• Integrated DAC/AMP
• Balanced output: 2W @ 32 ohm; 560 mw @ 300 ohm
• 3 gain settings

Thanks for all your input!

Regarding your other queries:


1) Does balanced output matter?

Well, in theory, balanced will give more power than a single-ended port, so it might be useful if you have insufficient headroom with harder to drive gear (eg low sensitivity and/or high impedance). In theory, balanced sources might give reduced crosstalk too, but whether this is audible in a a short cable used in desktop amps (compared to longer balanced cables used in large speakers/concerts) is another story.

The thing is, in sources with both a balanced and single-ended port, sometimes the single-ended one is added as an afterthought, or worse still, the single-ended port is deliberately down-throttled to let the balanced one shine. So in both specs and actual hearing, sometimes the single-ended one is perceived to be inferior within the same source.
But if implemented well, single-ended can be very competitive in specs and sound eg Schiit Asgard 3 is a purely single-ended amp, and I've never run out of headroom with it, even with the Yinmans. Quite a number of summitFI sources are purely single-ended, so it is a matter of implementation sometimes.


2) Topping and sterile sound?

Yes, in general Topping's house sound is sterile and analytical. Topping gear measures very well, so the measurebators at certain forums love it. I have owned a few Topping amps and sold them all off as they were too sterile for my tastes.

Ironically, a few sources that have worse measurements sound better to my ears eg Sony, Schiit , so sometimes the measurements are just one aspect. Do not be too fixated on measurements and miss the forest for the trees. Some measurements are quite useful eg output impedance, power specs etc, but not all measurements are audible, so I think the best is to trust your ears.

Source-transducer synergy is also highly important. Sterile source + sterile transducer will be like a cat scratching a chalk board and giving a grating sound to highlight every flaw in the music. Warm source + warm transducer will make everything become a nebulous muddy mess. So that's another area to pay attention to.

 

[Brillig]

Thank you (and everyone else!) For your detailed and very helpful responses. You all are giving me a lot to chew on and think about…

 

[samandhi]

ADVICE NEEDED RE HEADPHONE AMP!

I currently have a Megatron, and it's been good to me, but my favorite buds are my Yinman 600s, and I want to get the best out of them! Several people have posted that the Megatron is “good” with the Yinman 600s, but won’t bring out their full potential. I also have Sundaras, which I’m sure would open out more with additional power, and a Serratus and FF3. I want to be able to drive other high impedance buds if I get them.

So I’m looking for an amp, or amp/dac, hopefully under $200. I listen to classical, jazz, blues, male/female vocals, classic rock, world. I like some bass, but I’m not a basshead and don’t listen to metal, rap, or hip-hop.

@samandhi has recommended many times that an amp should have 1 W to 1.2 W @ 32 ohms for the Yinman 600s, and at least 80mW @ 600 ohms.


Megatron

• Many of you have one
• DAC: SABRE ESS9018K2M, bitcoding up to 24bit/96khz.
• MAIN QUESTION: Would it be good enough as a DAC with any of the amps below, or would I need to get something else? If so, what would you recommend?

Here are some of the amp and dac/amps I’ve been looking at, but I’m open to any brilliant suggestions!

Topping L50

• Lots of power @ balanced output
  • 2800mW x2 @32Ω
  • 290mW x2 @600Ω
• 3 gain settings
• Very high ratings from ASR (AudioScienceReview)
  • Too sterile?? Your opinions?

Schiit Vali ++

• Tube rolling sounds like fun (as long as I keep it sensible)
• I like a warmer sound. Love my Yinman 600s. (But also want soundstage, separation, detail, and timbre.)
• Looks like enough power for the Yinman 600s, right?
  • Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1500mW RMS per channel
  • Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 200mW RMS per channel
• No balanced output – does this matter?
• Low gain/high gain settings

Fiio K7

• Love to hear comments/recs from those who have one @o0genesis0o (especially comparing it to Megatron, especially with Yinman 600s)
• Integrated DAC/AMP
• Balanced output: 2W @ 32 ohm; 560 mw @ 300 ohm
• 3 gain settings

Thanks for all your input!

I am really liking the looks of the stats on the Shiit Vali. Shiit is very well known for making great amplifiers for less. I just recommended that one to someone JUST yesterday (ironically). As @ttorbic mentioned, you need to also look at the "other" numbers also if you don't have a chance to audition the amp. This one has REALLY good numbers for the price in comparison to a lot of others in this range. THD and SNR are two very important things to look at here as well, and this amp has very good numbers for the price. Just to compare, my iBasso DX300 (which originally cost $1200) has a SNR of 130dB, depending on the amp card and gain settings. It is said that the human ear can't hear past (roughly) 125dB or so.... @baskingshark might be on to something with his rec also. That one has better numbers and more power for only $50 more.. Just a thought.

As for the the difference between the OG Vali, the Vali+ and the Vali++, the real difference is the tubes used from the factory. Shiit had a hard time sourcing the tube from the Vali+ so changed it up. The other difference is simply the landing for the tube, and they changed a capacitor used on the PCB. Otherwise, it has remained pretty steadfast in its build and quality.

One of the great things about the Vali is that on low gain, you have less than 1Ohm of output impedance (.4Ohms), which is necessary if you want to listen to anything with low impedance and high sensitivity. This will mean that it should sound totally black.

As for having a balanced output, most times it is used more for high impedance gear because normally (especially on a portable) it outputs more power and has better numbers (SNR, THD+N, etc...). This is not true with the Vali, as you have seen it puts out some really good power for the price from SE. As for crosstalk (the other reason for balanced), the SE implementation seems to be very competent, and you should hear no noise due to this, and separation should be very good on this.

As for "auditioning" one, this could be a match for you, because Shiit has a 15 day return policy, and since you are in the US, it shouldn't be a hassle.

Having said all of that, I am not necessarily pitching this amp specifically..... What I might do is look at some of the best known amps (i.e. WooAudio and etc...) and look at all of their numbers. Costing thousands of dollars you can see what specs compare to what you are looking at. There are a "crap-ton" of amplifiers to look at in the Chinese market, but it really is a crap-shoot. While on paper the numbers might look good for some of those, they might have a cheap build, or compromise "somewhere" that most won't know about until its too late. I am certainly NOT saying to stay away from them, but unless you like to experiment, I would remain leery of "unknown" brands. But that is just me, and YMMV.

And finally, I would look at some reviews (quite a few, don't rely on just one). You can find the Vali++ reviews page here.

I know previously you were recommended 1W @32 ohms but that is at the bare MINIMUM.

This is very true. I did mention that I normally would take the "needed" power output and at least double it for voltage swing, but I guess I never stated this to be the bare minimum outright. Good call!

On the other hand, I think that these can be really enjoyed at those voltages too. I don't want to dissuade others from shying away from these buds because they think they need to mortgage the house to make them sound good.

https://smartstore.naver.com/burubeat/category/9f4a528f80cb468ea143c71186fd6533?cp=1

Here you go. Not just earbuds, they also have cables and other accessories. I am after the Mithril (Berserker 4), because of the mmcx bell shaped shells.

I did a quick check and so far, I do not have ANY CHi-FI earbuds in my collection! It started with Swedish and Canadian, then Korean, Indonesian, Filipino, British...hmm, may be someday a Singaporean (Blur) will add to my collection. I am not sure if I will go for Chi-Fi before auditioning them. I have given preference to the Artisan earbud makers over Chi-Fi because of the ability to consult with the makers directly before deciding on a purchase.

Oh, awesome... Thanks for sharing that. I will have a look at those.

A little box got handed to me by my Wife this morning. So much for stuff arriving unnoticed!

Inside were a pair of Yincrow X6. Much better fit for me than the EB2s so I'll be more keen on trying other buds in the MX500 style. Size of soundstage was impressive compared to IEMs and it's nice to have an option that lets in more ambient sound when I don't need isolation. Just as enjoyable a listen as some of my $50-$80 IEMs. I'm blown away by how good these sound.

Congrats on your new shiny!

You are in luck if you are wanting to try some more MX500 shells... It is a mainstay in the earbuds world (as you might well know by now), and you shouldn't have an issue finding any. Also keep in mind that a lot of DIY buds are made in this shell too.

The X6 have been around for a long time now (and there is a reason for that). They are a great entry point for "high end" audio in earbuds and show you what contemporary buds can be capable of without paying very much at all.

 

[itwasluck]

https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-can/

As others have said, it's not just about spec sheet output power numbers. Some other metrics to consider:
- voltage
- output impedance (e.g., you know that Megatron is not suitable for sensitive transducers)
- DAC chips (e.g., ifi Zen DAC uses Burson chips, supposedly warmer tone than others)
- SNR

Ifi makes quality products, although they have their house sound so I'd recommend listening and reading more reviews if you're interested. It's also a UK based company, so might be a bit pricier in the US.

Keep in mind the Yinman's are DARK and WARM, they are also his favorite earbuds. For a good pairing, its best to get something more analytical (neutral). Generally I recommend a transparent DAC paired with a warm amp but with these dark sets (Yinman 600s, LCD2Cs, GAS2, etc.), you want your source to be more neutral to counteract that darkness. In this regard the THX is a great recommendation as its on the verge of sounding slightly bright and this helps tremendously with clarity.
Personally most of my favorite HPs/earbuds tend to be dark/warm and non-fatiguing, I find the THX 789 complements these sets quite nicely.
ie. I use a transparent DAC (RME ADI-2 DAC FS) + slightly bright amp (THX 789) = Dark/Warm Sound Signature HPs/IEMs/Earbuds sound coming out is balanced.
You can also cheat a little with some dark sets, the mids on the LCD-2Cs become much clearer when you use a little crossfeed

 

[MiMiranda]

ADVICE NEEDED RE HEADPHONE AMP!

I currently have a Megatron, and it's been good to me, but my favorite buds are my Yinman 600s, and I want to get the best out of them! Several people have posted that the Megatron is “good” with the Yinman 600s, but won’t bring out their full potential. I also have Sundaras, which I’m sure would open out more with additional power, and a Serratus and FF3. I want to be able to drive other high impedance buds if I get them.

So I’m looking for an amp, or amp/dac, hopefully under $200. I listen to classical, jazz, blues, male/female vocals, classic rock, world. I like some bass, but I’m not a basshead and don’t listen to metal, rap, or hip-hop.

@samandhi has recommended many times that an amp should have 1 W to 1.2 W @ 32 ohms for the Yinman 600s, and at least 80mW @ 600 ohms.


Megatron

• Many of you have one
• DAC: SABRE ESS9018K2M, bitcoding up to 24bit/96khz.
• MAIN QUESTION: Would it be good enough as a DAC with any of the amps below, or would I need to get something else? If so, what would you recommend?

Here are some of the amp and dac/amps I’ve been looking at, but I’m open to any brilliant suggestions!
[/LIST]

Thanks for all your input!

For this price you can get the Topping NX7. Pairs well with the yinman.
If you want something cheap to play around, get the douk audio u3, pairs also good with the yinman.
With Shiit I got no good experience. Had have the magny 2 or 3, but I didn't like it at all

 

[Oscarilbo]

Hi guys
Can anyone recommend rubber rings for the Zen 2.0 that do not block any hole? How about the Nicehk ones?

 

[waynes world]

ADVICE NEEDED RE HEADPHONE AMP!

I currently have a Megatron, and it's been good to me, but my favorite buds are my Yinman 600s, and I want to get the best out of them! Several people have posted that the Megatron is “good” with the Yinman 600s, but won’t bring out their full potential. I also have Sundaras, which I’m sure would open out more with additional power, and a Serratus and FF3. I want to be able to drive other high impedance buds if I get them.

So I’m looking for an amp, or amp/dac, hopefully under $200. I listen to classical, jazz, blues, male/female vocals, classic rock, world. I like some bass, but I’m not a basshead and don’t listen to metal, rap, or hip-hop.

@samandhi has recommended many times that an amp should have 1 W to 1.2 W @ 32 ohms for the Yinman 600s, and at least 80mW @ 600 ohms.


Megatron

• Many of you have one
• DAC: SABRE ESS9018K2M, bitcoding up to 24bit/96khz.
• MAIN QUESTION: Would it be good enough as a DAC with any of the amps below, or would I need to get something else? If so, what would you recommend?

Here are some of the amp and dac/amps I’ve been looking at, but I’m open to any brilliant suggestions!

Topping L50

• Lots of power @ balanced output
  • 2800mW x2 @32Ω
  • 290mW x2 @600Ω
• 3 gain settings
• Very high ratings from ASR (AudioScienceReview)
  • Too sterile?? Your opinions?

Schiit Vali ++

• Tube rolling sounds like fun (as long as I keep it sensible)
• I like a warmer sound. Love my Yinman 600s. (But also want soundstage, separation, detail, and timbre.)
• Looks like enough power for the Yinman 600s, right?
  • Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1500mW RMS per channel
  • Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 200mW RMS per channel
• No balanced output – does this matter?
• Low gain/high gain settings

Fiio K7

• Love to hear comments/recs from those who have one @o0genesis0o (especially comparing it to Megatron, especially with Yinman 600s)
• Integrated DAC/AMP
• Balanced output: 2W @ 32 ohm; 560 mw @ 300 ohm
• 3 gain settings

Thanks for all your input!

You might want to check out the Liquid Spark from Monolith. $79.99 on amazon. Great amp:

https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-Liquid-Spark-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B07JW7NSXT?th=1

 

[Brillig]

Glad to see another person finding the Yinman 600s to be their favorite earbuds I been quite happy with the THX 789 (paired to a RME ADI-2 DAC FS but any decent DAC should do). I run 12 o'clock on medium gain with the Yinmans. I believe you can get these used for sub-200 (they were selling new for 250 a while back and it easily beats the options you mentioned from a sheer performance standpoint. If you want to add some coloration to your mix, just get a cheap tube pre-amp (Joshua Valour has a video on that actually). I know previously you were recommended 1W @32 ohms but that is at the bare MINIMUM. Depending on your listening level, you might need a lot more power. The THX 789 can provide that in spades without breaking a sweat and still give you enough power to run even the most demanding headphones on the market.

A powerful and affordable amp with excellent reviews that I had not yet heard of! Thank you!

 

[Brillig]

And finally, I would look at some reviews (quite a few, don't rely on just one). You can find the Vali++ reviews page here.

Yes, I've read a lot of very positive Vali reviews.

Keep in mind the Yinman's are DARK and WARM, they are also his favorite earbuds. For a good pairing, its best to get something more analytical (neutral). Generally I recommend a transparent DAC paired with a warm amp but with these dark sets (Yinman 600s, LCD2Cs, GAS2, etc.), you want your source to be more neutral to counteract that darkness. In this regard the THX is a great recommendation as its on the verge of sounding slightly bright and this helps tremendously with clarity.
Personally most of my favorite HPs/earbuds tend to be dark/warm and non-fatiguing, I find the THX 789 complements these sets quite nicely.
ie. I use a transparent DAC (RME ADI-2 DAC FS) + slightly bright amp (THX 789) = Dark/Warm Sound Signature HPs/IEMs/Earbuds sound coming out is balanced.
You can also cheat a little with some dark sets, the mids on the LCD-2Cs become much clearer when you use a little crossfeed

This whole favorites thing is interesting, yes? My suspicion is that we all have favorites -- for this hour, week, year... until the next big shiney comes along. What's it all about if not new tastes/flavors for our ears/brain? So yeah, I love the Yinmans, and then the FF3 will really hit me, and then I'll need a Serratus hit. All of which makes it hard to make an amp decision. But I totally get and appreciate your excellent recommendations.

For this price you can get the Topping NX7. Pairs well with the yinman.
If you want something cheap to play around, get the douk audio u3, pairs also good with the yinman.
With Shiit I got no good experience. Had have the magny 2 or 3, but I didn't like it at all

Good feedback, thanks. Were the Schiits too dry and sterile for you?

You might want to check out the Liquid Spark from Monolith. $79.99 on amazon. Great amp:

https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-Liquid-Spark-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B07JW7NSXT?th=1

That look like a really interesting amp at a great price! Very enthusiastic review. (Sorry, I screwed up the formatting in this post.)