Schiit Vali 2 + +
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Vali 2 + was touted as being a low cost hybrid tube amplifier or as Schiit states: "The most capable Affordable Tube Hybrid Amp On the Planet"
Well Schiits new Vali 2 ++ is as well !
How's that for a statement!
So did Jason pull off another really interesting trick!
Or is it just another Luddite?
The all new Schiit Vali 2 ++
I have a Vali 2 +, several months now and it has become one of my favorite amps for listening with headphones. Its really that good of an amp. Seriously it has punched well above its low cost of $149. I wrote up a review on Head-Fi here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-vali-2.24959/
Just scroll down a bit and you can read my Vali 2 + experience.
The Vali 2 + has worked very well with many headphones and I was really curious about this new Vali 2 ++ or Vali 2 Plus Plus. The same amp just with a different tube. Simple eh ? Imagine you can buy a nice Western Electric 396A that costs more than the amp and just plug it in with no "expensive" tube adapter....and if you do this, I like Jason think your nuts...but hey....vanity, ego, wallet. Have at it!
Or you can just try the tube that comes with the Vali 2 ++. In my case the Vali 2 ++ I requested came with a tube that was unmarked, I got out my old age magnifiers and did find a very light "W", the numbers "57" and a strange looking "9 or "y"...so I have no idea what tube this really is. The scant inkings are not contiguous and could be part of date codes, other tube makers id etc...But it does work, lights up nicely and gets warm. Schitt states the plate voltage is 60 volts. Its fully "coherent" or has Schiits coherence design. Its a fully discrete, current-mode noninverting hybrid topology.
The new tube family really shines brighter then the Vali 2 +.
It is designed to work with the a slightly different tube family. But the tube families are quite comparable and sound similiar and measure similar as well. The tube supplied is supposed to be a 6N3P but the numbers I see dont support this but I have to trust Schiit on this. Other tubes that can be inserted in this amp are 5670, 2C52, 6ECC42 and WE396A. Plug and Play! or Plug and Pay!
So why another Vali 2 version?
Well Schitt tells us the large stocks of 6BZ7 tubes has well....dried up. Sorry. No more lots of 10,000 + of these tubes around to fill all those little white ceramic sockets in the many Vali's that Schitt needs to fill its orders. So a change was called for if they were going to continue this type of low cost hybrid amp...that they seem to have hit on some secret sauce in this simple design. So Voila....5670 pinout, new family, different pin-out and some circuit board land changes. Ever so slight and a new "Black" colored pcb. One thing I did notice that on the Vali 2 + I have it states "Tube Hybrid Amplifier" where the Vali 2 ++ has "The Luddite" on it!!
Whats a Luddite ?
"Luddite" is now a blanket term used to describe people who dislike new technology. Hmmmm.
Internal Schiit Amusement ? LoL!
The Vali 2 ++ and my Vali 2 + (with 6CG7)
Before we get into the sound stuff....I took the covers of the Vali's and took some pix. Its hard to tell if anything really was changed. According to Jason its basically just a new pinout and two land changes. An astute observer will notice the tube sockets are 180 degrees apart. All is is pretty much the same. One thing from a build and simplicity standpoint is how easy it is to take apart, how so few parts, screws etc are needed to make such a simple but solid little amp. No wires hanging out acting as antennas, even the case ground is done via a pcb mounting standoff. IMO its a great design and layout.
A little talk about the specs. The usual discussion is pay more get better specs. Pay more get better parts. Better parts lead to better specs? Longer life ? Less
Failures? etc...etc...etc..
Well for $149 if this thing plays for 2 years I am happy, but this thing should last way longer than that, well maybe the tube might not...it depends.
Ok real specs: (From Schiits Site):
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1500mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1000mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 400mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 200mW RMS per channel
Note: Maximum power rated at less than 10% THD for tube and tube hybrid amps, as compared to less than 1% for solid state.
Low Gain:
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.02db at 300 ohms, 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.6db at 32 ohms, -3dB at 1MHz
THD: <0.008%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, 300 ohms
IMD: <0.015%, CCIR, 300 ohms
SNR: >114db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Crosstalk: -90dB, 20Hz-20KHz, 300 ohms
Output Impedance: 0.4 ohms
High Gain:
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.02db at 300 ohms, 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.6db at 32 ohms, -3dB at 300kHz
THD: <0.3%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, 300 ohms
IMD: <0.5%, CCIR, 300 ohms
SNR: >100db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Crosstalk: -90dB, 20Hz-20KHz, 300 ohms
Output Impedance: 1.8 ohms
Input Impedance: 50K ohms
Gain: 5 (14dB) or 1 (0dB)
Topology: Coherence™: tube voltage gain with convolved bipolar current mode inverter and discrete bipolar class A driver and Class AB output stage
Protection: delayed start and fast shut-down with muting relay
Power Supply: wall wart with 24VAC and 6VAC outputs, regulated HV and LV rails for tube and bipolar components, 6V AC heater
Power Consumption: 9W
Size: 5 x 3.5 x 2.75”
Weight: 1 lb
Ok specs out of the way...pretty much the same as Vali 2 +!
If the amp has any real shortcomings IMO its that small volume pot. Its prone to low volume mis-tracking and several reports of they become noisy if not used alot over time.
Some never see these issues at all. I have had noisy pots and just take some cleaner and let it flow down into the pot and rotate the vol knob several times, quiet pot..for a loooong time. Schiit couldnt get a nice larger pot in this enclosure and price point IMO. Again one of those small things at $149 is well ...a small point. Some will as always not like the power switch and gain switch on the back, typical Schiit. I dont mind this at all.
Schiit has a nice hefty linear power supply, line regulation is on every voltage rail. The unique wall-wort supplies 2 AC voltages, one for the heater and the other for the low-voltage rail for the output and the high voltage rail for the tube. It has a "funny" DIN plug connector that you will not confuse with all the other wall worts you muigh have lying around.
After many headphones I have settled in on Final Audio D8000 Pros and Audio Technica ADX 5000's. The D8000 Pros are 60 ohms with a sensitvity of 98dB/mW. The ADX 5000s are 420 ohms with a sensitivity of 100 dB/mW. I have no really low impedance IEMs. I also have many other amps in house. from $99 to high up in the thousands of dollars space. I like to listen to music, not gear. So an amp just has to work and let me listen and enjoy the recording...it has to melt away. Thats my real test.
Being a techie type of person who has done alot of DIY stuff, a Amateur Radio Extra Class Operator, a technican and engineer....I do like circuits, and techie stuff...knobs, filters, etc but many times that extra stuff isnt really necessary for a great listening experience. Nothing like a billet aluminum case 1/2" thick, with smooth volume knobs, meters and all kinds of lights....the Schiit Vali 2 ++ is not that amp. Its small, doenst have mega-watts of power but handles most headphone loads really well. There is something magical about this little amp.
I am not going to get into the stuff I already posted in my Vali 2 + review about Class A and Class AB and stuff.
Power? Well its not the amp to drive your Susvaras, but most everything else will work just fine. About a watt of power around 50 ohms and 400 mw at 300ohms..it handles both my ADX and Final audio cans superbly as well as a well worn set of HD 650's. No issue to make your nose bleed at all. I find I can run low gain and still get decent performance, on high gain it can get way too loud easily. I hear no auduble distortion when listening. I hear no noise or hum when the music stops.
Side by side with the Schiit Magni 3 +, its hard to tell differences, they are there but subtle. No where near an order of magnitude different. Just different. My subjective side tells me the Vali 2 ++ is the better sounding amp. There is a uncanny clear, crisp but musical presentation. With my ADX 5000's which are light and airy..like a much improved Sennheiser HD 800X can, the live presentations at times are just like being in the audience at times, its that good. Listening to Eva Cassidy "Live at Blues Alley" is just a 10. Period. Sarah McLachlans "Angel" is again another 10. Throw in the D8000 Pros, its just even more musical and a tad warm or rich...you can get lost for hours in the music...passes my test in spades.
Compare to other amps...yes, as good...yes. More power in most cases. Nope. Better sound. Nope just different a tad. Does it sound 20 times better than one of my high dollar amps that cost 20 x more? No. It just proves to me you dont have to spend 20X more dollars for exceptional sound. Does it have a big toriodal transformer, no, does it matter, my ears say no! Go figure. I really dont think this Vali 2 + + can be improved anymore than what it is. Its one of those special amps, that at this price consistently performs like someone spent some big bucks to get right.
Would I change out my Vali 2 + for a 2 ++ version...well IMO they are really so dang close it would be a side-grade. But if your an amp person, hey its only $149. With the costs out there right now to me, this is a steal. The Vali 2 + is now a collectors item ! They aint makin'em anymore! And its still really really good as well...if you dont have a tube amp and want to play, here is your chance ! Me having a Vali 2 + already and none of the new tube family tubes in house the 2 ++ version would be like a $149 new tube family adapter! No real need here to go to a Vali 2 + + but I am an amp lover and well...... "smiling here.." and ya cant take it with ya!
Enjoy the music, thanks to Schiit Audio for letting me audition this amp.
This is my honest real world experience with it.
Alex
Note: Someone asked me if the power supply for the new Vali 2 ++ was the same as the Vali 2 +
Socket Saver:
Well Schiits new Vali 2 ++ is as well !
How's that for a statement!
So did Jason pull off another really interesting trick!
Or is it just another Luddite?
The all new Schiit Vali 2 ++
I have a Vali 2 +, several months now and it has become one of my favorite amps for listening with headphones. Its really that good of an amp. Seriously it has punched well above its low cost of $149. I wrote up a review on Head-Fi here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-vali-2.24959/
Just scroll down a bit and you can read my Vali 2 + experience.
The Vali 2 + has worked very well with many headphones and I was really curious about this new Vali 2 ++ or Vali 2 Plus Plus. The same amp just with a different tube. Simple eh ? Imagine you can buy a nice Western Electric 396A that costs more than the amp and just plug it in with no "expensive" tube adapter....and if you do this, I like Jason think your nuts...but hey....vanity, ego, wallet. Have at it!
Or you can just try the tube that comes with the Vali 2 ++. In my case the Vali 2 ++ I requested came with a tube that was unmarked, I got out my old age magnifiers and did find a very light "W", the numbers "57" and a strange looking "9 or "y"...so I have no idea what tube this really is. The scant inkings are not contiguous and could be part of date codes, other tube makers id etc...But it does work, lights up nicely and gets warm. Schitt states the plate voltage is 60 volts. Its fully "coherent" or has Schiits coherence design. Its a fully discrete, current-mode noninverting hybrid topology.
The new tube family really shines brighter then the Vali 2 +.
It is designed to work with the a slightly different tube family. But the tube families are quite comparable and sound similiar and measure similar as well. The tube supplied is supposed to be a 6N3P but the numbers I see dont support this but I have to trust Schiit on this. Other tubes that can be inserted in this amp are 5670, 2C52, 6ECC42 and WE396A. Plug and Play! or Plug and Pay!
So why another Vali 2 version?
Well Schitt tells us the large stocks of 6BZ7 tubes has well....dried up. Sorry. No more lots of 10,000 + of these tubes around to fill all those little white ceramic sockets in the many Vali's that Schitt needs to fill its orders. So a change was called for if they were going to continue this type of low cost hybrid amp...that they seem to have hit on some secret sauce in this simple design. So Voila....5670 pinout, new family, different pin-out and some circuit board land changes. Ever so slight and a new "Black" colored pcb. One thing I did notice that on the Vali 2 + I have it states "Tube Hybrid Amplifier" where the Vali 2 ++ has "The Luddite" on it!!
Whats a Luddite ?
"Luddite" is now a blanket term used to describe people who dislike new technology. Hmmmm.
Internal Schiit Amusement ? LoL!
The Vali 2 ++ and my Vali 2 + (with 6CG7)
Before we get into the sound stuff....I took the covers of the Vali's and took some pix. Its hard to tell if anything really was changed. According to Jason its basically just a new pinout and two land changes. An astute observer will notice the tube sockets are 180 degrees apart. All is is pretty much the same. One thing from a build and simplicity standpoint is how easy it is to take apart, how so few parts, screws etc are needed to make such a simple but solid little amp. No wires hanging out acting as antennas, even the case ground is done via a pcb mounting standoff. IMO its a great design and layout.
A little talk about the specs. The usual discussion is pay more get better specs. Pay more get better parts. Better parts lead to better specs? Longer life ? Less
Failures? etc...etc...etc..
Well for $149 if this thing plays for 2 years I am happy, but this thing should last way longer than that, well maybe the tube might not...it depends.
Ok real specs: (From Schiits Site):
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1500mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1000mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 400mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 200mW RMS per channel
Note: Maximum power rated at less than 10% THD for tube and tube hybrid amps, as compared to less than 1% for solid state.
Low Gain:
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.02db at 300 ohms, 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.6db at 32 ohms, -3dB at 1MHz
THD: <0.008%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, 300 ohms
IMD: <0.015%, CCIR, 300 ohms
SNR: >114db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Crosstalk: -90dB, 20Hz-20KHz, 300 ohms
Output Impedance: 0.4 ohms
High Gain:
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.02db at 300 ohms, 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.6db at 32 ohms, -3dB at 300kHz
THD: <0.3%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, 300 ohms
IMD: <0.5%, CCIR, 300 ohms
SNR: >100db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Crosstalk: -90dB, 20Hz-20KHz, 300 ohms
Output Impedance: 1.8 ohms
Input Impedance: 50K ohms
Gain: 5 (14dB) or 1 (0dB)
Topology: Coherence™: tube voltage gain with convolved bipolar current mode inverter and discrete bipolar class A driver and Class AB output stage
Protection: delayed start and fast shut-down with muting relay
Power Supply: wall wart with 24VAC and 6VAC outputs, regulated HV and LV rails for tube and bipolar components, 6V AC heater
Power Consumption: 9W
Size: 5 x 3.5 x 2.75”
Weight: 1 lb
Ok specs out of the way...pretty much the same as Vali 2 +!
If the amp has any real shortcomings IMO its that small volume pot. Its prone to low volume mis-tracking and several reports of they become noisy if not used alot over time.
Some never see these issues at all. I have had noisy pots and just take some cleaner and let it flow down into the pot and rotate the vol knob several times, quiet pot..for a loooong time. Schiit couldnt get a nice larger pot in this enclosure and price point IMO. Again one of those small things at $149 is well ...a small point. Some will as always not like the power switch and gain switch on the back, typical Schiit. I dont mind this at all.
Schiit has a nice hefty linear power supply, line regulation is on every voltage rail. The unique wall-wort supplies 2 AC voltages, one for the heater and the other for the low-voltage rail for the output and the high voltage rail for the tube. It has a "funny" DIN plug connector that you will not confuse with all the other wall worts you muigh have lying around.
After many headphones I have settled in on Final Audio D8000 Pros and Audio Technica ADX 5000's. The D8000 Pros are 60 ohms with a sensitvity of 98dB/mW. The ADX 5000s are 420 ohms with a sensitivity of 100 dB/mW. I have no really low impedance IEMs. I also have many other amps in house. from $99 to high up in the thousands of dollars space. I like to listen to music, not gear. So an amp just has to work and let me listen and enjoy the recording...it has to melt away. Thats my real test.
Being a techie type of person who has done alot of DIY stuff, a Amateur Radio Extra Class Operator, a technican and engineer....I do like circuits, and techie stuff...knobs, filters, etc but many times that extra stuff isnt really necessary for a great listening experience. Nothing like a billet aluminum case 1/2" thick, with smooth volume knobs, meters and all kinds of lights....the Schiit Vali 2 ++ is not that amp. Its small, doenst have mega-watts of power but handles most headphone loads really well. There is something magical about this little amp.
I am not going to get into the stuff I already posted in my Vali 2 + review about Class A and Class AB and stuff.
Power? Well its not the amp to drive your Susvaras, but most everything else will work just fine. About a watt of power around 50 ohms and 400 mw at 300ohms..it handles both my ADX and Final audio cans superbly as well as a well worn set of HD 650's. No issue to make your nose bleed at all. I find I can run low gain and still get decent performance, on high gain it can get way too loud easily. I hear no auduble distortion when listening. I hear no noise or hum when the music stops.
Side by side with the Schiit Magni 3 +, its hard to tell differences, they are there but subtle. No where near an order of magnitude different. Just different. My subjective side tells me the Vali 2 ++ is the better sounding amp. There is a uncanny clear, crisp but musical presentation. With my ADX 5000's which are light and airy..like a much improved Sennheiser HD 800X can, the live presentations at times are just like being in the audience at times, its that good. Listening to Eva Cassidy "Live at Blues Alley" is just a 10. Period. Sarah McLachlans "Angel" is again another 10. Throw in the D8000 Pros, its just even more musical and a tad warm or rich...you can get lost for hours in the music...passes my test in spades.
Compare to other amps...yes, as good...yes. More power in most cases. Nope. Better sound. Nope just different a tad. Does it sound 20 times better than one of my high dollar amps that cost 20 x more? No. It just proves to me you dont have to spend 20X more dollars for exceptional sound. Does it have a big toriodal transformer, no, does it matter, my ears say no! Go figure. I really dont think this Vali 2 + + can be improved anymore than what it is. Its one of those special amps, that at this price consistently performs like someone spent some big bucks to get right.
Would I change out my Vali 2 + for a 2 ++ version...well IMO they are really so dang close it would be a side-grade. But if your an amp person, hey its only $149. With the costs out there right now to me, this is a steal. The Vali 2 + is now a collectors item ! They aint makin'em anymore! And its still really really good as well...if you dont have a tube amp and want to play, here is your chance ! Me having a Vali 2 + already and none of the new tube family tubes in house the 2 ++ version would be like a $149 new tube family adapter! No real need here to go to a Vali 2 + + but I am an amp lover and well...... "smiling here.." and ya cant take it with ya!
Enjoy the music, thanks to Schiit Audio for letting me audition this amp.
This is my honest real world experience with it.
Alex
Note: Someone asked me if the power supply for the new Vali 2 ++ was the same as the Vali 2 +
Socket Saver:
adydula
There are those moments with the Vali 2 + and adapter makes me feel like I should sell all the other amps, keep the Schiit MB + and just enjoy the music.
Now that would not be fun!
:>)
Now that would not be fun!
:>)
What a bargain!