Earbuds Round-Up

[o0genesis0o]

What was the initial problem with the bass?

Lower quantity, leading to slight imbalance between lower midrange and upper midrange as well. I wanted to boost the bass and lower mid a bit to balance things out.

Decent treble extension, not piercing. The M4 base modules (what the earbud and IEM modules screw onto) has Smabat's bass labyrinth tuning. The earbuds and IEM modules are rear vented, transferring sound waves to the base modules and pass through the bass labyrinth. Actually the IEM bass is pretty impressive because of that. Everyone would think that a BA doesn't have good bass, especially a full range BA, but Smabat's bass labyrinth makes the bass stand out and that helps the treble response to not be so sharp.

EDIT: This what I posted just 2 pages back:

BA supported by bass tubes seems like a good idea to get great IEM sound on a budget. No electrical cross over either

 

[Ronion]

Lower quantity, leading to slight imbalance between lower midrange and upper midrange as well. I wanted to boost the bass and lower mid a bit to balance things out.




BA supported by bass tubes seems like a good idea to get great IEM sound on a budget. No electrical cross over either

In that situation, I would try to put in a port of some sort. You’ll actually lose deep bass doing what you did, but you’ll also decrease the pinna gain so the balance may be better to your ears.

 

[o0genesis0o]

In that situation, I would try to put in a port of some sort. You’ll actually lose deep bass doing what you did, but you’ll also know down the pinna gain so the balance may be better to your ears.

Before and after, right from the coupler, without any realignment of graphs

I thought that drilling a back hole is already putting in a port? Or do you mean I need to do rivet mod?

 

[mt877]

The Smabat M4 battle of the bass with the M4 drivers I have on hand...

Well let me get right to it. If you like ultimate bass just get the Smabat ST10s Black Gold 150Ω buds and don't look back.

I compared the ST10s BG buds to the M4 ST10s BG drivers and to put it plainly, the ST10s BG buds blew away the M4 ST10s BG drivers in the bass department.

Having said that, it's not all high praise for the ST10s BG buds either. To my ears (someone please confirm) the ST10s BG buds present with a sort of V or U shape signature, bass and treble is dominant while the mid-range take a backseat. While the combination of the M4 tuning and the ST10s BG driver lift the mid-range, knocking some bass down. Maybe Smabat tried to tune the M4 more balanced versus their previous bud releases? Anyway, listening to the same music track with both ST10s BG and M4 ST10s BG driver was like listening to two different tracks. It was like two mastering engineers were battling it out with the same track, one guy going for bass and treble, while the other guy was bringing up the mids while lowering the bass. To me both miss the mark (listen to the FiiO FF3 to understand where I'm coming from).

I've since changed my impression of the ST10S BG buds and the M4 ST10S BG drivers. My source for initial listening was Shanling M3X, I changed to my Mac and Qudelix-5K and both the ST10S BG buds and the M4 ST10S BG drivers no longer sound different. See my new post here.

Moving on to the M4 ST20 Pro 100Ω fiber driver. To me this driver fit right in the middle between the ST10s BG buds and the M4 ST10s BG drivers. Good bass and mid-range presentation. Treble was bright, but not piercing. This driver was the closest to the FF3 in terms of a balanced sound.

I can understand that some folks will be saying, "Well, I don't have the FF3 and don't know what they sound like". If you've read some of the recent posts in this thread, then you should have a fair understanding that the FF3 is an all-rounder set of buds. I mentioned in previous posts that the FF3 would be the "reference" bud of the new era because it is just that good. When I say "reference", I'm not saying it's the absolute TOTL bud, nope, what I mean is for the overall sound and musicality they set an excellent standard which other buds can be referenced against.

Well the M4 ST10s BG and ST20 Pro drivers were all I had, someone else can pick up the gauntlet and continue this discussion when they get the other bass worthy drivers.

 

[syazwaned]

I do, but I didn't order the ST20 Pro driver. I only ordered the Super One driver 100 bio, and the 150Ti (and of course the stock 40 LCP) drivers, so I can at least compare those with the M2s Pro and the Super One 100 bio, 32 bio, 40LCP, and 40Ti drivers.

Thank friend, appreciate it

 

[Ronion]

Before and after, right from the coupler, without any realignment of graphs


I thought that drilling a back hole is already putting in a port? Or do you mean I need to do rivet mod?

Doesn’t have to be a rivet. Any sort of small tube will do, but Rivets are nice because of the lip and you can hide the janky-looking glue smudging that’s hard to hide without the lip. They are challenging to find narrow enough rivets for your purposes, but they are out there. Everything is a tradeoff. You can see that you’ve done exact What I’ve said though—except I stated it from an audibility perspective. Aligning the graphs somewhere between 100-600 Hz will expose it more visually speaking. The argument tends to be a center frequency between middle C and the A above it, but I like to ‘hang loose’ so to speak. Either way you look at it, the results are the same though: a warmer bud with relatively less deep bass/pinna gain. With your coupling method, you would think the green line would sound better assuming you haven’t bought an ear (Yet).

A hole is definitely a port, but it’s tuned for midbass/midrange in a sense and thus the gain in that region. If you extend that idea however, a wider port makes an open baffle bud. Extending the port’s length will tune is deeper just like a regular ported speaker—or doing a rivet mod as is the vernacular in the bud’s underground scene LOL. I personally like to maximize the frequency range, and tuning that port deeper would do that. With that said, it may not sound as balanced as it does now, but you can further customize that balance. Since you have the hole, the Rivet Mod would be the next thing to try IMO. Deeper bass is sexy.

You should buy an ear off of EA to see what you are really getting in a more realistic setting. You can get them for under $5. Maybe buy a few. You’d have a really nice rig at that point. It would still be impossible to really calibrate, but I’d bet you could get close enough with careful listening and there is no “standard” to really calibrate to anyway as there is no “standard” recording studio (Though some recording industry bodies do have some standards that are fairly related).

 

[o0genesis0o]

Doesn’t have to be a rivet. Any sort of small tube will do, but Rivets are nice because of the lip and you can hide the janky-looking glue smudging that’s hard to hide without the lip. They are challenging to find narrow enough rivets for your purposes, but they are out there. Everything is a tradeoff. You can see that you’ve done exact What I’ve said though—except I stated it from an audibility perspective. Aligning the graphs somewhere between 100-600 Hz will expose it more visually speaking. The argument tends to be a center frequency between middle C and the A above it, but I like to ‘hang loose’ so to speak. Either way you look at it, the results are the same though: a warmer bud with relatively less deep bass/pinna gain. With your coupling method, you would think the green line would sound better assuming you haven’t bought an ear (Yet).

A hole is definitely a port, but it’s tuned for midbass/midrange in a sense and thus the gain in that region. If you extend that idea however, a wider port makes an open baffle bud. Extending the port’s length will tune is deeper just like a regular ported speaker—or doing a rivet mod as is the vernacular in the bud’s underground scene LOL. I personally like to maximize the frequency range, and tuning that port deeper would do that. With that said, it may not sound as balanced as it does now, but you can further customize that balance. Since you have the hole, the Rivet Mod would be the next thing to try IMO. Deeper bass is sexy.

You should buy an ear off of EA to see what you are really getting in a more realistic setting. You can get them for under $5. Maybe buy a few. You’d have a really nice rig at that point. It would still be impossible to really calibrate, but I’d bet you could get close enough with careful listening and there is no “standard” to really calibrate to anyway as there is no “standard” recording studio (Though some recording industry bodies do have some standards that are fairly related).

Hey Ronion, thanks for the response. I think you are right. If I align the graph around 500Hz (where I consider "mid-midrange"), I can see that the bass looks exactly the same but the higher frequencies dropped.

Anyhow, I think it is two side of the same coin (more lower frequencies vs less upper frequencies). The point is (1) the contrast between lower and upper frequencies was reduced and (2) I did not manage to extend bass response. Whilst I am very satisfied with the upper frequencies, resolution, and soundstage, bass is still no where as good as FF3.

Though I must say that I disagreed with you at first about "losing ear gain rather than gaining bass" because the dogma that I learned from IEM world is that "opening back = more bass, until you over do it and lose all the bass", and "opening front vents = dropping the dirty boxy mid bass".

Re: measurement gig: I think the way I measure now achieve good precision, but no idea about accuracy. My hunch is that it reflects what I hear. Anyhow, I would buy artificial ears for my coupler.

Anyhow, my verdict for Nicehk YD30: Very good buy if you are willing to open it up and drill a hole through the back. In stock form, it sounds like an ER2SE or Tanchjim OLA with a more soundstage. Resolution is alright, 3/5. After modding, it is very good for all acoustic genres, and anything that benefits from large soundstage and does not rely on bass. The tonality is thicker and warmer, but the treble air seems to be more extended. Cymbals and high hats sound great.

 

[mt877]

I said this in my previous post:

"Moving on to the M4 ST20 Pro 100Ω fiber driver. To me this driver fit right in the middle between the ST10s BG buds and the M4 ST10s BG drivers. Good bass and mid-range presentation. Treble was bright, but not piercing. This driver was the closest to the FF3 in terms of a balanced sound."

After carefully listening to the M4 ST10s BG and M4 ST20 Pro drivers again, they have more in common then not. While the ST20 Pro driver sounds a bit more balanced than the ST10s BG drivers, it is not as extreme as what you may think from my previous description. Anyway, hope others will give their impressions when they receive their M4 buds and drivers as well.

 

[Ronion]

Hey Ronion, thanks for the response. I think you are right. If I align the graph around 500Hz (where I consider "mid-midrange"), I can see that the bass looks exactly the same but the higher frequencies dropped.



Anyhow, I think it is two side of the same coin (more lower frequencies vs less upper frequencies). The point is (1) the contrast between lower and upper frequencies was reduced and (2) I did not manage to extend bass response. Whilst I am very satisfied with the upper frequencies, resolution, and soundstage, bass is still no where as good as FF3.

Though I must say that I disagreed with you at first about "losing ear gain rather than gaining bass" because the dogma that I learned from IEM world is that "opening back = more bass, until you over do it and lose all the bass", and "opening front vents = dropping the dirty boxy mid bass".

Re: measurement gig: I think the way I measure now achieve good precision, but no idea about accuracy. My hunch is that it reflects what I hear. Anyhow, I would buy artificial ears for my coupler.

Anyhow, my verdict for Nicehk YD30: Very good buy if you are willing to open it up and drill a hole through the back. In stock form, it sounds like an ER2SE or Tanchjim OLA with a more soundstage. Resolution is alright, 3/5. After modding, it is very good for all acoustic genres, and anything that benefits from large soundstage and does not rely on bass. The tonality is thicker and warmer, but the treble air seems to be more extended. Cymbals and high hats sound great.

I tend to look at things from an audibility or psychoacoustic perspective because that’s what ultimately matters to me and in truth it’s what actually matters to all of us when we listen to music. It’s the balance you are going to hear. Relative to the midbass, your sub bass is reduced audibly d/t Fletcher/Munson (ELC) and masking. You can maximize the visibility of that by aligning at 150Hz. Acoustically, you bumped the midrange, midbass and even deep bass. Just less deep bass than midbass and deep bass is generally harder to hear and the stuff that’s hard to get in a bud. You could also say that overall the deep bass may be more audible d/t the more dramatic decrease in pinna gain.

In all the preference data that’s ever been done, Deep Bass>Midbass and midbass is usually prevalent beyond Harman in buds. I think Harman’s IEM graph way overemphasized this because of their methodology, but it holds true in all the room preference data as well ever since deep bass was readily attainable. Buds usually have plenty of midbass, and not enough of the deep stuff. That’s where my comment really came from. I thought you wanted the deep, hard to reach stuff. To get the deep stuff, you’ll have to do more than a hole. I’ve been there and done that, so just trying to lend a hand.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Buds usually have plenty of midbass, and not enough of the deep stuff. That’s where my comment really came from. I thought you wanted the deep, hard to reach stuff. To get the deep stuff, you’ll have to do more than a hole. I’ve been there and done that, so just trying to lend a hand.

The YD30 does not even have enough mid bass. That's why I said it sounds like ER2SE or Tanchjim OLA in stock form. Still, unbelievable price / performance for $15 AUD.

Of course, I did not mean to say "Look, I can drill a back vent, I have mastered earbuds". However, I'm definitely super proud that I can fine tune an alright pair of buds into darn good without resorting to EQ. Usually, this kind of "tuning" is reserved for influential reviews . That's what thrills me the most. Can't wait for the next adventure when my shells and drivers arrive.

 

[Alex.Grimm]

Yuin PKE
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vNJvnx
https://a.aliexpress.com/_v3uqDb

 

[jeejack]

The Smabat M4 battle of the bass with the M4 drivers I have on hand...

Well let me get right to it. If you like ultimate bass just get the Smabat ST10s Black Gold 150Ω buds and don't look back.

I compared the ST10s BG buds to the M4 ST10s BG drivers and to put it plainly, the ST10s BG buds blew away the M4 ST10s BG drivers in the bass department.

Having said that, it's not all high praise for the ST10s BG buds either. To my ears (someone please confirm) the ST10s BG buds present with a sort of V or U shape signature, bass and treble is dominant while the mid-range take a backseat. While the combination of the M4 tuning and the ST10s BG driver lift the mid-range, knocking some bass down. Maybe Smabat tried to tune the M4 more balanced versus their previous bud releases? Anyway, listening to the same music track with both ST10s BG and M4 ST10s BG driver was like listening to two different tracks. It was like two mastering engineers were battling it out with the same track, one guy going for bass and treble, while the other guy was bringing up the mids while lowering the bass. To me both miss the mark (listen to the FiiO FF3 to understand where I'm coming from).

Moving on to the M4 ST20 Pro 100Ω fiber driver. To me this driver fit right in the middle between the ST10s BG buds and the M4 ST10s BG drivers. Good bass and mid-range presentation. Treble was bright, but not piercing. This driver was the closest to the FF3 in terms of a balanced sound.

I can understand that some folks will be saying, "Well, I don't have the FF3 and don't know what they sound like". If you've read some of the recent posts in this thread, then you should have a fair understanding that the FF3 is an all-rounder set of buds. I mentioned in previous posts that the FF3 would be the "reference" bud of the new era because it is just that good. When I say "reference", I'm not saying it's the absolute TOTL bud, nope, what I mean is for the overall sound and musicality they set an excellent standard which other buds can be referenced against.

Well the M4 ST10s BG and ST20 Pro drivers were all I had, someone else can pick up the gauntlet and continue this discussion when they get the other bass worthy drivers.

It seems that the filters, which are sold separately, must also be ordered

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Yuin PKE
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vNJvnx
https://a.aliexpress.com/_v3uqDb

I think someone just posted about the PKEs being released on AE the other day. I have heard the Yuin PK1s and PK2s, but not the PKEs. Any chance you want to give me a rundown of the differences between the PKEs and either of the other two?

 

[samandhi]

The Smabat M4 battle of the bass with the M4 drivers I have on hand...

Well let me get right to it. If you like ultimate bass just get the Smabat ST10s Black Gold 150Ω buds and don't look back.

I compared the ST10s BG buds to the M4 ST10s BG drivers and to put it plainly, the ST10s BG buds blew away the M4 ST10s BG drivers in the bass department.

Having said that, it's not all high praise for the ST10s BG buds either. To my ears (someone please confirm) the ST10s BG buds present with a sort of V or U shape signature, bass and treble is dominant while the mid-range take a backseat. While the combination of the M4 tuning and the ST10s BG driver lift the mid-range, knocking some bass down. Maybe Smabat tried to tune the M4 more balanced versus their previous bud releases? Anyway, listening to the same music track with both ST10s BG and M4 ST10s BG driver was like listening to two different tracks. It was like two mastering engineers were battling it out with the same track, one guy going for bass and treble, while the other guy was bringing up the mids while lowering the bass. To me both miss the mark (listen to the FiiO FF3 to understand where I'm coming from).

Moving on to the M4 ST20 Pro 100Ω fiber driver. To me this driver fit right in the middle between the ST10s BG buds and the M4 ST10s BG drivers. Good bass and mid-range presentation. Treble was bright, but not piercing. This driver was the closest to the FF3 in terms of a balanced sound.

I can understand that some folks will be saying, "Well, I don't have the FF3 and don't know what they sound like". If you've read some of the recent posts in this thread, then you should have a fair understanding that the FF3 is an all-rounder set of buds. I mentioned in previous posts that the FF3 would be the "reference" bud of the new era because it is just that good. When I say "reference", I'm not saying it's the absolute TOTL bud, nope, what I mean is for the overall sound and musicality they set an excellent standard which other buds can be referenced against.

Well the M4 ST10s BG and ST20 Pro drivers were all I had, someone else can pick up the gauntlet and continue this discussion when they get the other bass worthy drivers.

Thanks for sharing. This is also why I ended up liking the SO 100 bio best on the M2s Pro. It seems to be me most balanced (in relation to the other drivers), where the 32 bio seems to be the most "top" heavy (IMO).

I can confirm that the ST10S B&G are indeed a "U" shaped tuning, though I would not exactly call them bright (when describing the treble region). The boosted pina is where you get all of your perceived clarity in these. As an experiment, you can set up an EQ profile and subtract about 4dB @3K with a BW of 1 or 2. Once you have done that, you will notice that the treble is actually a bit laid back (though certainly not veiled still). But, keep in mind YMMV on this because I am deaf past 12K (though I hear very well below that range), and I am also not sensitive to treble at all unless it actually has true sibilance; in which case it still doesn't hurt, it is just unpleasant.

I would like to hear those same tests but while switching out the dampers/filters. Those will also be subtle difference (much like changing tips on an IEM), but hopefully they will help dial in the sound you might want better?!

Also, did you not listen to the stock driver? I would be curious what you think about those also?!

After carefully listening to the M4 ST10s BG and M4 ST20 Pro drivers again, they have more in common then not. While the ST20 Pro driver sounds a bit more balanced than the ST10s BG drivers, it is not as extreme as what you may think from my previous description. Anyway, hope others will give their impressions when they receive their M4 buds and drivers as well.

This was also my thought on the M2s Pro. The differences in the drivers (while there) are fairly subtle in the end all the way from the 32bio to the 150Ti (and everything in between). This is my IMO though, so YMMV of course.

It seems that the filters, which are sold separately, must also be ordered

Yep. I didn't order them for my initial purchase, but if they end up tuning the sound enough to notice, I may pick them up along the way. I suspect I will have all of the drivers in the end (although initially only picking up 2 of them).

 

[jeejack]

I have to tell you guys, 400 ohm is awesome