Earbuds Round-Up

[JAnonymous5150]

I have a couple different cables, but those were the only ones that would fit through the smallish cable pass-through in the shell. It's a nice cable and very cheap at $1.83 per cable. See the shopping list if you want to roll your own.

Spoiler: Build your own DIY Yuin PK1 shopping list

Original YUIN PK1 Red Film 150Ω speaker unit 2 pcs
DIY PK1 shell 3 pairs
3.5mm Jack Audio Wire Cord Cable

What amp/dac/source do you generally use or prefer with the DIY pk1

 

[christianfps]

To get back on topic, those of you with the FF3s really need to listen to Polyphia's new album New Levels New Devils. It's a really cool instrumental work that pushes all the strengths of the FF3s and sounds great. I would encourage anyone to listen to it regardless of FF3 ownership, but I was impressed with how they handled it in particular. Let me know what you guys think.

G.O.A.T was amazing with the FF3 so many sound cues caught me off guard and I actually thought it was coming from outside haha!

 

[christianfps]

Btw, Tanchjim is releasing a retuned OLA called OLA bass. Any space in cart?

Hahahaha you're making me spend more and it ain't even Christmas yet!

The OLA is quite a technical IEM tuned to the HRTF curve, in fact it is has one of the better technicalities under $50 USD.

Unfortunately, the fit is hit or miss, due to the too short nozzles and round shell. This causes discomfort, and bad fit also equates to bad seal which can affect bass response. Even when fitted well, the upper mids/treble are a bit too boosted and they give a nasal timbre and can be fatiguing.

OLA is quite amazing for FPS games exactly because of its tuning and fortunately the fit wasn't a concern for me. One thing I would've wanted was a small vent so it wasn't fatiguing in a long session.

I mentioned OLA because @christianfps and I know each other online due to OLA for FPS games. Personally, I don’t need much stuffs thanks to FF3.

Pretty much what I'm feeling right now haha! Quite in love with the FF3 and it keeps getting better

 

[mt877]

What amp/dac/source do you generally use or prefer with the DIY pk1

Sony NW-ZX507, not the most powerful, but wonderful warm Sony signature musicality. Shanling M3X, a bit more power than the ZX507 and is my neutral DAP. I like to stack the M3X with the Little Bear B4-X hybrid tube amp. I'm finding the DIY pk1 is having better synergy with warmer sources like the ZX507 and M3X / Little Bear stack. With M3X alone the treble is a little piercing. Will have to try different foams and see if that changes.

Edit: I've been chilling out listening to Keiko Matsui for the last couple of hours through these pk1 buds, really enjoying it.

 

[Flognuts]

Just want to say I bought the FF3 yesterday.
I had no idea these even existed. I ordered the ER2-XR which kept getting delayed, so went in store to cancel and the guy asked if I've tried these.
Jeeeeez I been in this hobby for 15 years and this price to performance never existed before. Since when does $99US get you earbuds, that to my ears beat the likes of the HD600/HD650?
What's Fiio doing over there? My only experience with them in the past was a cheap portable amp E7 from 2010 and it sucked. My expectations of this company are totally misread now.

TLDR: The FF3 are a must buy for the price, can't wait to see what the FF5 are gonna be like.

What foam tips are you owners using with these, Bass or Neutral?

 

[fooltoque]

Fiio replied to me that they have no news to share about FF5 yet, but they hope to release it before the end of the year. Maybe we have scared them

Wait, didn't they say September for FF5 release? Did that change?

 

[o0genesis0o]

Wait, didn't they say September for FF5 release? Did that change?

I asked them after the launch event yesterday. That’s their response.

 

[Ronion]

If it is, they don't seem to know how to fix it very easily. I am working with their chat support right now.

BTW, Fiio got back to me about the foams. They aren't planning on selling them, but I was given an email address for a parts and repairs desk to see if I can arrange to have some shipped to me. I will keep you guys posted as to what happens.

We need a route to acquire more of these foams! Let us know how it goes and thanks for reaching out to them.

I hate to be the logic of this scenario, and I certainly don't want to stop any progress that could be made in this area. I would love to see this happen.

Having said that it is not possible to have a true bone conduction IEM or earbud, unless you have another driver that contacts outside the ear (read, something like the jawbone or the like) because there are no bones on the outside of the ear for bone conductor drivers to contact. In fact, there are only 3 (tiny) bones in the ear at all, and they are in the middle ear, which means there isn't a way to contact these bones at all.

This is also why when you look at the old school bone conduction headphones you will see they don't even go into the ear at all. But, using a piezoelectric driver (normally associated and/or mistaken for/with bone conduction) can also make sound waves due to vibration. The difference in the implementation is that you still need to hear it with your ears. All those IEMs that are calling their product "bone conduction" aren't technically lying because the driver used in it is what they make bone conduction sets out of. So, it IS a bone conduction driver, but the way they have implemented it is NOT.... It is a "gimmick" to get people to buy the product (IMO).

There is a good test for this if you want to know how true or not their statements are. Put them between your teeth and press play. That's it! If you can't hear them, then you know it is not true bone conduction. I tested the Raptgo Hook-X this way because on some places I see piezoelectric driver, and others (including the box) it says bone conduction. Sadly, they are not. This doesn't stop them from sounding amazing (to my ears) though.

Bone conduction headphones are SUPER cheap and easy to make (DIY). Just do a search and you will see just how easy they are. Basically, a motor, a jack for your source, and a rod (and some fiddling; not the kind with a bow). You can listen through your teeth..

Fun fact: Speaking of teeth, did you know that true bone conduction has been around for a really long time? Did you know that Beethoven was able to finish some works that normally he wouldn't have been able to by the use of bone conduction? A rod between his teeth allowed him to hear through the bone what the piano was doing (to a limited degree). It wasn't until the 20's-40's that it was decided that bone conduction could be used in or as hearing aids because it allowed people to hear what they previously might not have heard otherwise (those with diminished hearing, not total deafness).

Bone conduction in the medical sense is most efficient through the mastoid process which is right behind your ear. It’s bone mound that’s part of what makes your ears stick out. It can be used to diagnose outer ear hearing problems like wax build up, middle ear infections vs inner ear issues of the cochlea or auditory nerve. The easiest way to try it for yourself is called the Rinne test. If you have a tuning fork, you tap it to get it vibrating and place it on the mastoid process. After you can no longer hear it, hold it in the air beside your ear. It should last roughly the same time as it did on the mastoid process. If you do it more quickly before the sound dies, it should sound louder through air conduction. You can also test unilateral inner ear issues by placing a vibrant tuning fork on the middle of your head. It would be quieter on the side with inner ear issues.

so in the grand scheme of things, bone conduction is less important than air conduction with healthy hearing, but that doesn’t mean bone conduction isn’t important. It certainly plays a role with external auditory stimuli. I’d think it would be worthy of our efforts. That said, the devices used to really test this stuff thoroughly could not easily be added to an ear bud. Maybe an IEM… Maybe an earbud. To get efficient coupling would probably require adhesives… if someone came up with something more elegant it would be more interesting. Something like glasses or a headband could work. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Ronion]

I asked them after the launch event yesterday. That’s their response.

We scared them. They must be making it great! Well, I hope anyway.

 

[Setmagic]

We need a route to acquire more of these foams! Let us know how it goes and thanks for reaching out to them.

Bone conduction in the medical sense is most efficient through the mastoid process which is right behind your ear. It’s bone mound that’s part of what makes your ears stick out. It can be used to diagnose outer ear hearing problems like wax build up, middle ear infections vs inner ear issues of the cochlea or auditory nerve. The easiest way to try it for yourself is called the Rinne test. If you have a tuning fork, you tap it to get it vibrating and place it on the mastoid process. After you can no longer hear it, hold it in the air beside your ear. It should last roughly the same time as it did on the mastoid process. If you do it more quickly before the sound dies, it should sound louder through air conduction. You can also test unilateral inner ear issues by placing a vibrant tuning fork on the middle of your head. It would be quieter on the side with inner ear issues.

so in the grand scheme of things, bone conduction is less important than air conduction with healthy hearing, but that doesn’t mean bone conduction isn’t important. It certainly plays a role with external auditory stimuli. I’d think it would be worthy of our efforts. That said, the devices used to really test this stuff thoroughly could not easily be added to an ear bud. Maybe an IEM… Maybe an earbud. To get efficient coupling would probably require adhesives… if someone came up with something more elegant it would be more interesting. Something like glasses or a headband could work. Just thinking out loud.

Imagine sellers try to rise prices by +100$ using vibrating bone conduction in headphones.

 

[Ronion]

Imagine sellers try to rise prices by +100$ using vibrating bone conduction in headphones.

In truth, it could be done efficiently through ear hooks…. This has me thinking now. That last 10% could be worth a DIY effort.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

G.O.A.T was amazing with the FF3 so many sound cues caught me off guard and I actually thought it was coming from outside haha!

G.O.A.T. is a crazy track with any transducer with a decent soundstage, but the depth and separation of the FF3s allows them to cast some of those cues pretty far afield. It makes sounds come from everywhere rather than just side to side. This was one of the effects that made me recommend the listen so I'm glad it worked for you as well. The whole album has crazy things like that scattered throughout.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Just want to say I bought the FF3 yesterday.
I had no idea these even existed. I ordered the ER2-XR which kept getting delayed, so went in store to cancel and the guy asked if I've tried these.
Jeeeeez I been in this hobby for 15 years and this price to performance never existed before. Since when does $99US get you earbuds, that to my ears beat the likes of the HD600/HD650?
What's Fiio doing over there? My only experience with them in the past was a cheap portable amp E7 from 2010 and it sucked. My expectations of this company are totally misread now.

TLDR: The FF3 are a must buy for the price, can't wait to see what the FF5 are gonna be like.

What foam tips are you owners using with these, Bass or Neutral?

It's crazy though isn't it? I just rediscovered earbuds as a transducer medium a few months ago and I certainly picked a great time to dive back in. The FF3s are definitely a special pair of buds!

P.S. If you read back through the thread over the last week or so some FF3 owners including myself have been discussing and recommending some great artists/albums/tracks to listen to on them. The recommendations have pointed me to a few gems for sure!

 

[BCool]

In truth, it could be done efficiently through ear hooks…. This has me thinking now. That last 10% could be worth a DIY effort.

I found some shells with earhooks and possibly some smaller drivers

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2033188987.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003330426585.html

 

[samandhi]

We need a route to acquire more of these foams! Let us know how it goes and thanks for reaching out to them.

Bone conduction in the medical sense is most efficient through the mastoid process which is right behind your ear. It’s bone mound that’s part of what makes your ears stick out. It can be used to diagnose outer ear hearing problems like wax build up, middle ear infections vs inner ear issues of the cochlea or auditory nerve. The easiest way to try it for yourself is called the Rinne test. If you have a tuning fork, you tap it to get it vibrating and place it on the mastoid process. After you can no longer hear it, hold it in the air beside your ear. It should last roughly the same time as it did on the mastoid process. If you do it more quickly before the sound dies, it should sound louder through air conduction. You can also test unilateral inner ear issues by placing a vibrant tuning fork on the middle of your head. It would be quieter on the side with inner ear issues.

so in the grand scheme of things, bone conduction is less important than air conduction with healthy hearing, but that doesn’t mean bone conduction isn’t important. It certainly plays a role with external auditory stimuli. I’d think it would be worthy of our efforts. That said, the devices used to really test this stuff thoroughly could not easily be added to an ear bud. Maybe an IEM… Maybe an earbud. To get efficient coupling would probably require adhesives… if someone came up with something more elegant it would be more interesting. Something like glasses or a headband could work. Just thinking out loud.

In truth, it could be done efficiently through ear hooks…. This has me thinking now. That last 10% could be worth a DIY effort.

It's funny that you mentioned using glasses as a medium for bone conduction. The OG Google Glasses did that very thing. There was nothing to go into the ears. It relied solely on bone conduction technology.

That was the word I was looking for that for some reason eluded me, "air conduction" (otherwise known as soundwaves via vibrations). Thanks for that and the rest of the information. I wasn't aware of the tuning fork test; well, I was, but I didn't know the process behind it.

As for "bone conduction" it was decided fairly recently that having outter ear, or even some middle ear issues (though with auditory nerve damage, bone conduction would not work just as much as normal sounds wouldn't) bone conduction COULD be used to bypass some of those hearing issue to restore hearing (to an extent). As mentioned, it is pretty lo-fi.

G.O.A.T. is a crazy track with any transducer with a decent soundstage, but the depth and separation of the FF3s allows them to cast some of those cues pretty far afield. It makes sounds come from everywhere rather than just side to side. This was one of the effects that made me recommend the listen so I'm glad it worked for you as well. The whole album has crazy things like that scattered throughout.

Some of these cues are also what I look for to know how big a soundstage is on a set of buds. There are also some really good binaural recordings that should expose this capability (or not) in a set.

I used to have a Jawbone Big Jambox and while it wasn't the absolute best in sound quality, it did have a piece of (proprietary) tech inside of it that basically died when they went bankrupt, and subsequently out of business (AFAIK). It was called Live Audio, and it worked VERY well. How this worked is they borrowed the principle that makes noise cancelling work so well, anti-noise.

The box was made up of two speaker side by side. Microphones would record ambient sounds and generate a wall of anti-noise right in the center of the box, thereby (effectively) isolating each speaker from one another. The side effect of this process would make some sounds in songs sound like they came from a HUGE distance away from the box itself. It was really great! It was actually quite shocking when you heard these noises (guitars, voices, etc...).

To make this effect even more wide, there were a lot of groups back in the day that actually experimented with their recordings using a binaural setup; a recording head equipped with two microphones to simulate a sound's distance from each ear (Lynyard Skynyrd being one such group). Keep in mind these aren't as 3d spatial as some modern stuff, but they are left and right, WAY out there.

Anyhow one such recording that sounds great in earbuds and open back headphones (but even more on the Jawbone, though it is more of a super wide panning left and right rather than depth) is:



And maybe even more on this one:


And an example of some great binaural recordings (I have this album, but he has more):