ANy impressions on the JCALLY EP05??
Its 13$ on ALI and it include a 5N silver plated mmcx cable. Big ass 16mm drivers... Construction look great...it sell at double the price in other shop. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001547137732.html
I'm very curious about these.
And i guess the Tingo TC200 is well known here too...get quite mass-hyped on NBBA group nowadays lol...t'was about time!
So...i got the Fiio EM5 earbuds yesterday, and though im still waiting the manufacturer recommended 200 hours of burn-in time before i give my impressions -- my first thought is HOLY crap. I listened to these for 3 hours yesterday, totally lost in the music. In fact, while listening to recordings of some live performances -- these sounded so good, that i actually cried a bit because it felt like i was in the audience. Are they better than headphones or IEMs? They're different. The music feels like its living outside of me, despite still having excellent imaging, instead of feeling like its inside of my head so they're perfect for going about your day and not NEEDING to be 100% focused on the music. However, if you sit down and let the buds take you away...you're in for a treat. Seriously. Right now i can say that i would recommend these to anyone that wants to see what spectacular EARBUDS can do -- worst case, you hate them and return them.
Heres my question though -- these buds dont come with ear hooks (bummer, since i paid $300 for these) and so when i move around too much they fall out of place just a little (i have tiny ears..ear canals are normal but my physical ears are like a child's lol) does anyone know where i can get some ear hooks for these? @FiiO ? I tried putting some silicone ear hooks on these but all it did was make the sound SUPER SUPER muddy.
Alternatively, are there flat buds out there with ear-hooks that ya'll would recommend?
Hello there,
I've been following this thread quietly for a moment now, while experimenting with earbuds on my own. I learned a lot reding about your journey guys so thank you very much (especially @assassin10000 and @Sam L and all of you who attempted to produce easy to read measurments)
I just came across this post which I found very interesting:
I have some thoughts on the matter that I think are worth sharing, as the questions you ask here have been bothering me for quite some time now.
The more I spend time with earbuds the more I'm convinced that earbuds should be tuned closer to IEMs, not much like Headphone (which seems to be the standard way of doing). Amoung all the earbuds I have (Ty 32Ohm, Auglamour RX1, Philips SHE3800, VE Monk +, VIdos (White and blue), Moondrop Shiroyuki & Nameless, Headroom MS16), solely ONE managed to sound tonally ok (TY 32Ohm). I found all the others to be strangely off, all in the same way, and so I started to investigate their frequency response.
The detail of the less than scientific method I ran through:
1. Finding measurments and interprete them:
Normally this not that hard, as most popular headphones and IEMs are very comonly measured by reviewers, via well-thought standardized method and instruments (GRAS for headphone, 711 couplers for IEMs etc..). The way IEMs and Headphones should be measured are widely discussed, you can easely find the pieces of information you need to understand measurments. Websites like Rtings, ScienceAudioReview, DIYAudioHeaven and many others are goldmines. But when it comes to cheap earbuds, I found myself with almost nothing to work with, except very wierd looking 711 measurments, like those found on Hiendportable and Audiobudget. I had a hard time extracting anything from those. My guess here was that apart from the massive 0-600khz shelf boost steming from the perfect seal, they were pretty good at showing the intrinsic earbud tuning if you forget the 7k peak of the coupler (In real life, there is of course your auditory canal resonating, but probably very very differently, we don't know yet..). In other words it gives me the transfere founction of the earbud alone in the 1k-7k region
2. Frequency sweeps are my best friends: correlate measurments with what I actually hear.
So I decided to rely on my ears and I spent hours and hours scanning my collection through frequency sweeps, trying to build an EQ settings that make me percieve every frequency equally loud. Obviously this requires a very precise volume matching, because as you noticed, a sort of Fletcher countour kicks in to make my life harder. Here is a dirty quick hand drawn compilation of what I found. I apologize for this terrible results presentation, but might still be easier to read than the filters values
Why do I EQ to a percieved flat? Because the EQ profile I get is just the opposite of the system [earbud + my ear + my auditory canal] transfere fonction. 711 type measurments allow me to approximately remove the earbud from the equation in the focused region (1-7k), so I'm left with my ear and canal transfere fonctions, which tell me how the earbud is interacting with my anatomy. We have those two reference cases to interprete this foounction:
- If it's flat with a sharp 7k spike, it's like IEMs, and therefore should be tuned alike (compensation for the lack of pinnea interaction in the forms of a massiv 3k mountain gently slopes down towards high frequencies)
- If it raughly ressembles the Head Related Founction in diffuse field, it means it's closer to headphones, and so should be tuned like them.
It's reasonable to think that we will fall in-between, just the fact that I had to consider the equal loudness contour means there is some sort of outer ear interaction.
I also looked at this this paper, asuming that earbuds interact with the inner part of the concha (cavum concha), I thought it could give me an idea of what to expect (it know it is naif, but my hole approach is utterly naïve...). Very interesting read if you want to dig the subject.
In the end this is what I found
Massive 5khz peak which can be modelized by a [+8dB @5000hz Q=3.0] filter
Important 9khz Narrow peak which a [+6 dB @900h0z Q=4.5] filter modelizes fairly enough
small hill which slightly elevates the 2-6khz zone like a [+2.5db @4000hz Q=0.6] would.
3. Conclusion
Earbuds do interact with outer ear (probably mainly concha) in a significant manner. But you still need important compensation to match HRTF in diffuse field/studio conditions. As far as my ears are concerned, A massive boost at 3k and a narrow one att 7k are needed. Basically a standard Harman-like IEM tuning with a compensation for what I assume is concha resonance (deep 5k notch) would suit perfectly. TY 32Ohm is close to deliver such a tuning, with an elevated 2-7k zone and important 2.5K peak on the top of that. Far from perfect but fair enough. MS16 does something similar but still sounds bloated to me. Though now I can understand why it sounds open and realistic to some..
Bottom line is good earbuds should measure on 711 type couplers like smabat M2/M1/ST10/ME80/BK40/VE MONK 1.0 etc... We want this 2.5-4Khz elevation. And preferaby low frequency shelf dropping from 500-600hz, not 800 as can be seen nasty mellow monstruosity like the monk + (that said I am still able to enjoy them if I try hard enough)
Now @Sam L, if The BK2 sounds good to you it might just be because the fit is lose enough to elevate the 2-7khz area correctly, and your brain compensates for the peak being offset to 5Khz instead of 3. I think I can enjoy the RX1 for the same reason. I think brain compensation is often a dangerously underestimated phenomenon thats helps making things sound normal and average, hiding the defects. However I bet you could tell if a device matches your personal HRTF the second you hear it.
In the end I just don't understand why so many earbuds are tuned dead flat, even compensating marginally for the 5k peak, showing that designers are aware of it's existance. May be the idea that flat response suits nothing but speakers has not made it to everybody yet.
Again my tests are less than robust and my conclusions are not worth much at all.
Hope some might find this post helpfull though
wow, thx for all the effort behind this post. I really appreciate it. It goes with out saying that a good number of us really want to spur innovation in the earbuds space and a big part of that requires making earbuds attractive enough to persuade more iem users to join us.
I'll have to sit down and read through your post more carefully before I respond with some thoughts of my own. By the way, when you say a "massive boost at 3k and a narrow one at 7k" are you referring to a lower q value at 7k or a smaller increase in dB? I'm guessing dB?
I'm curious about what to expect on 11/11 with earbuds. Are there still good discounts on buds <$20? I can't imagine seeing that much of a discount. It'll be my first 11/11 sale I participate in.
I'm curious about what to expect on 11/11 with earbuds. Are there still good discounts on buds <$20? I can't imagine seeing that much of a discount. It'll be my first 11/11 sale I participate in.
I'm curious about what to expect on 11/11 with earbuds. Are there still good discounts on buds <$20? I can't imagine seeing that much of a discount. It'll be my first 11/11 sale I participate in.
wow, thx for all the effort behind this post. I really appreciate it. It goes with out saying that a good number of us really want to spur innovation in the earbuds space and a big part of that requires making earbuds attractive enough to persuade more iem users to join us.
I'll have to sit down and read through your post more carefully before I respond with some thoughts of my own. By the way, when you say a "massive boost at 3k and a narrow one at 7k" are you referring to a lower q value at 7k or a smaller increase in dB? I'm guessing dB?
You're welcome, glad you appreciate it!
I'ms sure earbuds have the potential to interest a lot of users. Their price/performance ratio is so wild. After all, the original monk started a revival nobody expected.
Well I mean a higher Q value (around 4) and in fact ther's also a lower increase in DB: so narower and smaller compered to the 3k one. I admit there's nothing to make visualization easy here.
Yeah, it's weird, the me80 are decently substantial in size but don't feel like it in ear. I also appreciate the metal stem, makes it easy to manipulate, insert, remove, etc.
Seems there's a new Toneking T0400S. On multiple shops on Aliexpress. $56 USD.
Wonder what is the upgrade from the regular T0400, anybody tried it yet?
This is not the green Toneking Dendroaspis Viridis set, which is more expensive and is actually a West African Green Mamba.
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(that said I am still able to enjoy them if I try hard enough)
