Earbuds Round-Up

[ttorbic]

Any suggestions on more durable foams

Can't say these are more durable, but they are so cheap and come in a pack of 100 that it's not a problem if they fail:
I just found this on AliExpress:
￡1.03 | 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ex3coKU

These are what Jim uses for TGXEar sets, or used to at least.

Other well-known brand of foams:
- Trig Rain
- Fiio (you need to message them directly because they don't sell it on AliX)

 

[Eduardiofilo]

Can't say these are more durable, but they are so cheap and come in a pack of 100 that it's not a problem if they fail:
I just found this on AliExpress:
￡1.03 | 100 Pcs Black Sponge Earbud Headphone Cap Ear Pads Cover Replacement
https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ex3coKU

These are what Jim uses for TGXEar sets, or used to at least.

Other well-known brand of foams:
- Trig Rain
- Fiio (you need to message them directly because they don't sell it on AliX)

What is the difference between a normal foam and a fiio foam?

 

[ttorbic]

What is the difference between a normal foam and a fiio foam?

People seemed to like the density options from Fiio.

In general though, foams should be replaced relatively frequently - how often depends on usage rate, climate, and physiology.

 

[samandhi]

What is the difference between a normal foam and a fiio foam?

For me, and firstly the FiiO foams seem to make the most difference in sound compared to all other foams I have tried (besides the HeIGI foams).

Next is the quality control of the foams themselves. The FiiO foams seem to be more consistent than others, so you can rely on a set being the same as the next set. The cheap foams get the job done just fine, but the sound you get might be different each time you change sets. Here are a couple quotes from @mt877 where he measured different foam densities (and Consequently consistency as well):

Funny you guys are talking about the FF3 foams. As an exercise to determine foam density I decided to measure the various earbud foams I have on hand.

I have various colors of foams, but only measured the black ones for consistency.

So how did I do it? I took a calibrated luminance meter and a light board for viewing photographic slides and measured the light passing through each foam, not through a single layer of the foam, but through the entire foam with hole side up. I did not measure donut foams due to light passing through without being filtered by a layer of foam. To be consistent with the measurements I masked off a section of the light board to the size of a typical foam and centered each foam in the masked off area and then centered and pressed my luminance meter's nozzle on the foam (which was a perfect fit). The base measurement of my light board was 1238 cd/m2 (candela per meter squared). The values in the table are cd/m2 values after the light was filtered through each foam. Each foam was new and unused. A used foam would have been stretched out, so I'm not sure if used foams would have provided more accurate data. Needless to say that I was not going to use all my foams and stretch them out for the sake of my curiosity, so these measurements will have to suffice.

How to interpret the data. Lower number means less light passed through the foam which would indicate higher foam density. The FF3 balanced and bass foam measurements were surprising. I measured the foams as supplied in their labeled bags. The VE foams were some of the lowest density foams, but there were several that blocked more light. The higher density VE foams were in the same bag along with higher density colored foams, so not sure if VE foams are all supposed to be thin or if they also include thicker foams as well(?). From the numbers, it looks like VE may give you 3 thicknesses of foams, but I'm not 100% sure if that is an accurate statement either. The No Name foams came from a couple sources and have been segregated in their original plastic bags since I got them.

So how does one accurately measure foam density? I guess what I did was a reasonable attempt which gave some numerical data, anyway it was a fun exercise.

Enjoy.

Here's the results:

FF3 Balanced​	FF3 Bass​	VE Black​	Hiegi Black​	No Name Black #1​	No Name Black #2​	No Name Black #3​
29.8​	35.5​	117.6​	39.7​	20.2​	42.2​	59.8​
23​	32.5​	129.1​	29.4​	21.4​	50.3​	39.1​
51​	35.4​	73.2​	32.3​	20.9​	47.6​	35.3​
28.4​	34.4​	84.2​	32.7​	13.8​	37​	32.1​
33.5​	35.6​	130.4​	23.8​	23.9​	16.3​	33.9​
34.1​	42.9​	125.6​	23.1​	22.6​	42.7​	40.7​
36.2​	31.2​	72.2​	23.7​	25.1​	35.7​	30.8​
38.3​	46.1​	83.7​	28.3​	22.8​	39.8​	34.8​
43.2​	40.5​	180.6​	19.1​	16.2​	41​	27.1​
51.6​	40.1​	171.1​	32.3​	​	16.4​	39.6​
44.9​	36.3​	140.3​	30.2​	​	7.73​	30.5​
32.1​	44.6​	173.8​	24.4​	​	8.95​	34.3​
​	​	28.2​	​	​	35.56​	32.6​
​	​	26.3​	​	​	​	38.6​
​	​	23.6​	​	​	​	35.2​
​	​	23.4​	​	​	​	39.1​
​	​	160.4​	​	​	​	38.1​
​	​	170.4​	​	​	​	35.4​
​	​	150.1​	​	​	​	31.9​
​	​	154.6​	​	​	​	33.4​
​	​	83.5​	​	​	​	43.1​
​	​	70.6​	​	​	​	33.2​

Ok guys, made new measurements with a different measuring tool. I used a film densitometer which is used to accurately measure the density of the latent image after silver halide crystals are exposed to light and chemically processed on photographic film. Using this principle a density measurement of porous foam can be performed as well.

Measuring method: Black foams were measured. The point source of light and the detector was approx. 1mm which allowed accurate measurement of a single layer of foam through the hole of a full foam. For the FF3 crisp donut foam I had to measure between the through holes and outer edge of the foam and then divide by 2 to get a single layer density figure. The FF3 single layer foam density for all 3 (balanced, bass and crisp) were all within the same relative range. It's easy to understand how the crisp donut foam would affect treble response. The values measured for the balanced and bass foams is essentially equal. It could be that the foams I received were mixed up or put in the wrong bag during the packaging process. Although the measurement numbers are different than what I posted before, it is easy to see that the previous measurement using a different methodology and the current measurements follow the same general trend.

As before the VE foam measurements split into 3 different densities, thin, medium and thick. By backlighting the VE foams it was pretty easy to see that the thin foams were more porous and allowed more light to filter through, the same for the medium foams versus the thick foams. The VE foam sets also included colored foams which I did measure, but am not including because foams of different colors filter light differently than black foams and the numbers would be confusing. Just as an example a thick white foam measured at .65, while a thick black foam measured at 1.59. This is not to say that colored foams can't be measured accurately. All the thick white foams measured around .65 +/- .10. It's just a matter of establishing a baseline.

How to understand the data set: Lower the number = lower foam density (more light passed through). Higher the number = higher foam density (less light passed through).

This time around I sorted the results from lowest to highest density measurements.

FF3 Balanced​	FF3 Bass​	FF3 Crisp​	VE Black​	HieGi Black​
1.34​	1.31​	1.29​	0.82​	1.41​
1.39​	1.32​	1.48​	0.85​	1.49​
1.44​	1.36​	1.49​	0.93​	1.51​
1.44​	1.42​	1.51​	0.93​	1.51​
1.46​	1.44​	1.54​	0.94​	1.52​
1.46​	1.46​	1.55​	0.95​	1.52​
1.51​	1.46​	1.55​	0.98​	1.59​
1.53​	1.46​	1.56​	0.98​	1.6​
1.56​	1.49​	1.58​	1​	1.66​
1.56​	1.49​	1.59​	1.03​	1.66​
1.6​	1.51​	​	1.07​	1.7​
1.62​	1.51​	​	1.1​	1.7​
​	​	​	1.1​	​
​	​	​	1.12​	​
​	​	​	1.13​	​
​	​	​	1.14​	​
​	​	​	1.16​	​
​	​	​	1.2​	​
​	​	​	1.54​	​
​	​	​	1.59​	​
​	​	​	1.61​	​
​	​	​	1.76​	​

Some time later I took this information and figured out the average of differences between each brand so that you can see which brand was most consistent.

 

[fooltoque]

That must be a newer style Windmill driver. The FR graph is similar from 500Hz upwards. Looks like it has increased bass. Might be good, but who really knows where Smabat tuning is involved. The driver I'm using is ok, not perfect. I have other drivers that I collected when I got the M4 that I can try as well.

I got the 50ohm windmill in and have been listening to it a bit. Unlike the original S2pro driver, I could listen to it without too much problem without EQ, and with a bit of EQ I'm really enjoying it. I would definitely recommend as an upgrade over the standard driver.

 

[mt877]

Been a long while since I've last been here, having went from RW2000 to DUNU alpha 3 and being perfectly satisfied by them

The fit or rather the way the heads balance make it extremely comfortable to use for long hours, and I've had no fit issues at all with the many months I've had these. Fit so well none of my IEM's have been touched this year! Easily my best fitting audio gear even compared to the X6's. Thanks to these I'm no longer that fixated on detachable cables.

The sound is also good, though requires full foams for my ears to round them off a tad. With foams bassier but less clear highs compared to the foamless way I wore my RW2000, not fatiguing at all and pretty enjoyable.

Finding I am getting low on foams though, the VE pack ones don't seem to last very long on these. Any suggestions on more durable foams?
Names I've seen are FAEEAL and HieGi, how are these?

HieGi full and donut foams are quality high density foams. FAAEAL foams fall into the medium density category. These foams have a very good consistency within their manufacturing batches. While "no name" foams are very cheap, their foam density is all over the place and can change some tonal balance between your left and right earbud depending on the variable density of the foams. Also, cheap foams are just that, cheap. The holes in cheap foams aren't centered very well and often times rip apart when you try to put them on your earbuds. I believe cheap foams are the castoff culled foams that failed manufacturing quality checks and are saved and sold at super reduced prices rather than trashing them. VE foams are also very good quality. VE used to sell two different foam packs, Ex Pack and Ex Pack Lite. IMO, the Ex Pack was the better pack of foams to buy, but VE did away with the Ex Pack and only sell the Lite version now.

I have very little experience with Trig Rain foams. I did order some of their very colorful foams in the past and found that the coloring dyes leach off and stain things. I believe this color staining was mentioned in this thread before. I suppose you could wash Trig Rain foams a couple times to reduce color staining.

I got the 50ohm windmill in and have been listening to it a bit. Unlike the original S2pro driver, I could listen to it without too much problem without EQ, and with a bit of EQ I'm really enjoying it. I would definitely recommend as an upgrade over the standard driver.

That's great. Of the recent Smabat releases, their S2 Pro buds are pretty decent and fill that niche of going wireless in the flat head earbuds world. I'm surprised that other companies haven't stepped up to bat with wireless flat head buds. It probably wouldn't be too hard to take an existing wireless semi-in-ear and revamp the design for flat head earbuds. I think there's been a couple DIY builds that used some cheap semi-in-ears and converted them to flat head style in the past.

 

[Trebo]

Hey all, long time since I posted asking some rookie questions about flatheads. . Question, anyone have or heard the new Moondrop Pavane?

 

[h8uthemost]

Hey all, long time since I posted asking some rookie questions about flatheads. . Question, anyone have or heard the new Moondrop Pavane?

It just released, I don't think anyone that comes to this thread has theirs yet(correct me if I'm wrong). I'm interested in impressions myself.

Trig Rain foams

I got some Trig Rain donuts not long ago and there was maybe 2 or 3 pairs where the hole was centered. Not very good at all.

EDIT: Hate this new no double posting thing.

 

[ttorbic]

I got some Trig Rain donuts not long ago and there was maybe 2 or 3 pairs where the hole was centered. Not very good at all.

Huh I should check my packet

Question, anyone have or heard the new Moondrop Pavane?

Andy Audiovault has one but probably waiting for review embargo to lift

Mark Ryan posted a squig!
https://squig.link/earbuds/?share=M...e_white_foam,TGX_Ear_Serratus,TGX_Ear_Sunniva

Looks very bass anemic with the stock donuts

 

[h8uthemost]

Huh I should check my packet

Yeah my experience with them was not a good one. Hopefully you have a full bag of perfectly centered donuts.

I figured you'd be the one with any news on the Moondrop.

 

[samandhi]

I received my HB1 300Ω "donkey" today. I have only had a very short time with them as of yet, but for now I will just say, brilliant! The description of these and to the speakers/sound system they tuned them to is very accurate (just what i was hoping they would be; dark and warm).

More impressions (and pictures) to come.

Looks very bass anemic with the stock donuts

Looks like they could sound very similar to the Chaconne. I am down for that (though normally i look for differences in sets I keep, rather than similarities).

I would bet that the neo magnet on the Pavane will give them much more punch, and better separation (though I am not sure how, the technicalities on the Chaconne are part of what make them sound so special IMO).

Edit: Looks like (for those in the US anyhow) that Amazon Shezhen Audio has the Pavane for cheaper than what I paid for mine ($342). I wasn't able to find this the last time I looked, and didn't really think to look again until @mt877 mentioned finding them there as well. The bad news, is that I already paid $379 through HiFiGo. But, the (potentially) good news might be that HiFiGo still hasn't shipped mine yet. I will wait for a short time, then if they still haven't shipped them, I will just cancel my order and re-order them from Amazon.... This would give me a decent way to seek warranty should I ever need it, rather than having to ship all the way back to China. We'll see.. I am not sweating it either way at this point.

 

[jeejack]

I received my HB1 300Ω "donkey" today. I have only had a very short time with them as of yet, but for now I will just say, brilliant! The description of these and to the speakers/sound system they tuned them to is very accurate (just what i was hoping they would be; dark and warm).

More impressions (and pictures) to come.

So... you need a bottle opener so we can see what kind of driver we have there

 

[samandhi]

So... you need a bottle opener so we can see what kind of driver we have there

Lol for sure.

I do think it is indeed a 300ohm driver, but as you know very well some makers use a resistor to simulate higher ohm sets. I also don't think that this is the case either, though because the separation and all other technicalities are really good (if not quite outstanding).

At the same time, I am not too sure it is the same driver you mentioned before because while there is a bit of a boost in the 3K range, it isnt offensive (even to my sensitive ears), except on a select few songs; basically it rides the edge of that line.

But, I will know more once I get some time with them. I will let you know if I need you to send me a good bottle opener if the need should arise...

 

[jankster38]

Well, I got the Pavane, and uhh… yeah… What were they thinking??? Not only are these donut foams a mega pain in the a$$ to get on (took me almost an hour), but the bulbous teardrop design does not hold them well whatsoever and the foams slide right off as soon as you put them on. Gonna need to get some dense and fluffy full foams for these and play around with the fit, but when I get them in the right position, WOW are they detailed, especially in the vocal department. Need more time with these to share any more impressions on the sound. Also they’re as heavy as they look, but they sit quite well in my ears

 

[ttorbic]

Well, I got the Pavane, and uhh… yeah… What were they thinking??? Not only are these donut foams a mega pain in the a$$ to get on (took me almost an hour), but the bulbous teardrop design does not hold them well whatsoever and the foams slide right off as soon as you put them on. Gonna need to get some dense and fluffy full foams for these and play around with the fit, but when I get them in the right position, WOW are they detailed, especially in the vocal department. Need more time with these to share any more impressions on the sound. Also they’re as heavy as they look, but they sit quite well in my ears

Wow! First one in the wild (non reviewer)! Excited to hear your thoughts

If you really want to use donuts, I recommend either silicone rings or wings underneath the foam