[nikbr]

Look forward to your impressions, I only own the Fiio FF3-5, Dunu and a couple of VE Monks so not really up to most in this thread but I'm willing to learn what earbuds offer.

I started with VE Monk SPC that I got for free next to the VE Stack. Those made me want to try a midfi VE offering in the form of VE Zen LL. These were alright and very comfortable, but way behind my IEMs in SQ. Then I read one too many positives about this, the Yincrow RW2000, and said flick it, let's give them a try.

And yeah, Wow, these have both the bass and detail I've been missing from those two VE's. Add the typical earbud openness and it's absolute listening perfection.

 

[baskingshark]

I started with VE Monk SPC that I got for free next to the VE Stack. Those made me want to try a midfi VE offering in the form of VE Zen LL. These were alright and very comfortable, but way behind my IEMs in SQ. Then I read one too many positives about this, the Yincrow RW2000, and said flick it, let's give them a try.

And yeah, Wow, these have both the bass and detail I've been missing from those two VE's. Add the typical earbud openness and it's absolute listening perfection.

The RW2000 is still my daily earbud, won't sell it away for sure!

 

[nikbr]

The RW2000 is still my daily earbud, won't sell it away for sure!

You were also the main culprit for my purchase. Please, tap your own shoulder and congratulate yourself for this suggestion in my name. Perfection.

 

[PeacockObscura]

I abandoned earbids after buying the Smabat m4 and M5pro only to be drawn back by the fiio and Dunu offerings which I rather enjoy also I discovered wearing them with the wire over ear fixed my fit issues.

 

[Ace Bee]

Are these good earbuds?

For a free earbuds (if purchased with specific cable), nothing can be better than this.

 

[ian91]

I started with VE Monk SPC that I got for free next to the VE Stack. Those made me want to try a midfi VE offering in the form of VE Zen LL. These were alright and very comfortable, but way behind my IEMs in SQ. Then I read one too many positives about this, the Yincrow RW2000, and said flick it, let's give them a try.

And yeah, Wow, these have both the bass and detail I've been missing from those two VE's. Add the typical earbud openness and it's absolute listening perfection.

Welcome to the 'light' side...! There's nothing like discovering a good earbud.

 

[trevdawg94]

I just did a brief comparison listen to the Nobunaga Uguisu (aka Nightingale) vs RW2k, Rhino, FF3S and PAC buds.

The Uguisu have a mid-focus clarity and their bass doesn't go deep, that is why they stand out as buds for stageheads. They do sound great when you first listen to them, almost wow you in a sense but as you listen more you start to notice things like high hat and cymbals stand out unnaturally sometimes. Of the four comparison buds the RW2k is the only one that presents with the same type of mids clarity, though not as edgy as the Uguisu. To me the RW2k stand out with its more balanced sound signature. The Rhino, FF3S and PAC buds are warmer buds compared to the Uguisu with their stronger bass presence which also clouds some of their mids and treble details.

I bought the Uguisu because I was curious about some buds from a Japanese headphone cable company and they are good buds so I don't want to discourage you from buying them, but I prefer the RW2k over them.

Thanks for the comparison, I really appreciate it. That's what I felt with the OpenHeart Nightingale (XinYue Titanium) as it is really hit-or-miss, songs either sound incredible or not so great if not borderline unlistenable. But from your description it doesn't sound like it's quite in another league compared to the RW2K, it seems like it would be at the high end of a similar range. So it probably won't be quite what I'm looking for and won't be a huge upgrade over what I've got, though it's still one that I'll keep in mind.

That's my main frustration with the FF3/S, to get what I consider great levels of bass I had to increase it so much that vocals would distort which ruined the experience. An even if I didn't increase bass frequencies at all I would still experience some distortion with the same songs which I think is just a normal tendency for them not a defective unit. What baffled my mind with the OH Nightingale is how far I was able to increase the bass without any treble distortion, I had to get up to 60-70% before I noticed any warbling and even that wasn't nearly as bad as with most other earbuds. Usually I can only get up to around 20% in Poweramp EQ or a 3-5 dB 150Hz low shelf before I start to notice distortion which was nothing for this bud. I did end up reducing the bass boost down to 30% as I was overpowering some of the background treble frequencies and 40% was too much for some songs. Thanks for your honesty, I really appreciate it.

 

[mt877]

Are these good earbuds?

I found PAC quite underwhelming. Warm, slighty boxy midrange with a tight soundstage for an earbud. I haven't listened to them in a while though...

For a free earbuds (if purchased with specific cable), nothing can be better than this.

Agree with both @ian91 and @Ace Bee.

The Penon PAC buds are "decent", nothing outstanding for some free buds you can get when you add them to your shopping cart and you purchase a select cable from Penon. To me they aren't worth buying by themselves ($50.00), there are much better sounding earbuds in the $10 to $50 price range out there.

Here's a few in no particular order, other folks might have other suggestions as well.
Yincrow X6, K's LBBS (Little Black Bell S), Temperament X6, Yinman 32Ω **, RY4S Black 300Ω, RY4S (pick color) mmcxplus 32Ω, NiceHCK EB2S PRO

** NOTE: The link for the Yinman 32Ω takes you to a product page that says Yinman 150Ω. We had a full discussion about this in the previous pages. If you trust the store and buy them, the price listed is for the 32Ω and that is what you will get.

 

[trevdawg94]

I'm trying to figure out if what I like so much about the OH Nightingale is related to staging, imaging, and layering or if it's simply highly detailed, tonally accurate, and distortion-free treble. Any song recommendations would be welcome, as I can't tell for sure with most of the songs I listen too. I have a feeling it's a combination of the former since the sound signature of the Nightingale is similar to the RW2K which is on Woody's stagehead list but I want to be more confident before diving off the deep end (Toneking Green Mamba... yeah...).

 

[BCool]

That's my main frustration with the FF3/S, to get what I consider great levels of bass I had to increase it so much that vocals would distort which ruined the experience. An even if I didn't increase bass frequencies at all I would still experience some distortion with the same songs which I think is just a normal tendency for them not a defective unit.

Can you explain what you mean by 'great levels' of bass? The FF3 are already the bassiest earbuds you can buy by far.

 

[trevdawg94]

Can you explain what you mean by 'great levels' of bass? The FF3 are already the bassiest earbuds you can buy by far.

Sorry I should've clarified that better, I think what I'm trying to say is IEM levels of bass which I now know are very, very hard if not impossible to achieve with earbuds. From what I had read (not here, mind you) about them leading up to release they seemed to level the playing field with IEMs but I don't feel like that was the case. So maybe my expectations were misguided and out of line with reality which led to me trying to push them beyond what they're physically capable of? That's not quite correct either, the FF3 trades width, depth, and positionality for quantity, range and sheer power which is great for some songs but not for others. If it didn't come at the cost of female vocal clarity it would be great but I can't overlook that with how severe the tradeoff can be even without EQ.

It could also just be that I don't like the sound I get out of the 5K without spending a lot of time EQ'ing each earbud, as I still can't get the Nightingale to sound quite how I want on the 5K. So it might be time to start looking into other portable sources but Qudelix's app is so far beyond what other options provide it's hard to give up that level of adjustment.

 

[mochill]

Well blox earbuds are back if no one noticed, I've got tm11 coming

 

[jogawag]

Can you explain what you mean by 'great levels' of bass? The FF3 are already the bassiest earbuds you can buy by far.

I'm sorry, but I think the Smabat ST-10S (Gold) has the strongest bass among the earbuds you can buy so far.
It is still sold at Penon Audio.

 

[BCool]

Sorry I should've clarified that better, I think what I'm trying to say is IEM levels of bass which I now know are very, very hard if not impossible to achieve with earbuds. From what I had read (not here, mind you) about them leading up to release they seemed to level the playing field with IEMs but I don't feel like that was the case. So maybe my expectations were misguided and out of line with reality which led to me trying to push them beyond what they're physically capable of? That's not quite correct either, the FF3 trades width, depth, and positionality for quantity, range and sheer power which is great for some songs but not for others. If it didn't come at the cost of female vocal clarity it would be great but I can't overlook that with how severe the tradeoff can be even without EQ.

It could also just be that I don't like the sound I get out of the 5K without spending a lot of time EQ'ing each earbud, as I still can't get the Nightingale to sound quite how I want on the 5K. So it might be time to start looking into other portable sources but Qudelix's app is so far beyond what other options provide it's hard to give up that level of adjustment.

That makes sense. The FF3 don't have the greastest quality bass even if they are fun.

I'm sorry, but I think the Smabat ST-10S (Gold) has the strongest bass among the earbuds you can buy so far.
It is still sold at Penon Audio.

Interesting, in all of the discussion around the FF3 I don't think I saw anyone compare the two. I have the M4 and M5 with the ST-10S drivers and they were nowhere near the FF3, but that maybe due to the design of those shells and the icepick upper mids.

 

[h8uthemost]

Hello, your respected comparisons of flat-heads and your much appreciated insight in this category has led me here, after passively reading and following for some time. Maybe you have a recommendation on how to navigate this niche with so many nice products coming from small and "DIY" manufacturers; love the enthusiasm.

When looking for an "open-back headphone sound" with a good amount of detail in the mid to high range - thinking of my DT 880 - and a bit (not necessarily excessive) of bass, where would you start?

Maybe the VE Asura 3.0 FE would be a good choice? There are two reviews on head-fi and I found a youtube review (in Spanish, with auto-translated subtitles) emphasizing characteristics similar to open-back headphones: I also found budget-friendly recommendations for the Faaeal Snow Lotus and Rosemary.

At this point, I have and I much appreciate the DT 880 and HD58X with the FiiO BTR15. The only flat-head I got many years ago is the Monk plus, which has increadible value and I often use it for convenience. Thank you for any comments.

I can't recommend the Snow Lotus enough. Nice open sound. I don't have the Rosemary yet. But the Faael "house sound" is really great. I don't think you can go wrong with either