[Rackhour]

It is not only earbuds, but other audio gear like IEMs and sources are mostly made in China (or at least they use Chinese parts and/or assembly, even for some Western/boutique brands).

China has economies of scale with audio parts, cheap labour and less strict licensing/patents. They perhaps do not spend as much on marketing and arguably may have less robust CS/QC than so-called western brands, but Chinese audio gear is generally king in price-to-performance ratio for these reasons.

I figured that part as much. That’s partially why there are numerous Android phones of varying quality sold around the world, among other electronics.

Let me rephrase my question. There are tons of non-China-based IEM and over/on-ear brands. But the only brand that the everyday person may know of that still sells non-closed buds is Apple, courtesy of their EarPods and open AirPods. Sony only dabbles with open back buds through the older LinkBuds and one other wired model that clips on your earlobes. Sennheiser has practically erased the fact that they once manufactured the MX500; I only learned of this through RikuBuds.

This backdrop is what made me wonder why it is seemingly only Chinese companies that are actively iterating on earbuds.

 

[ShaneyMac]

Sunday vintage time

 

[WoodyLuvr]

Sennheiser has practically erased the fact that they once manufactured the MX500; I only learned of this through RikuBuds.

Because they did not design or manufacturer it. They paid Foster of Taiwan to completely design and manufacture the MX series for them. Foster already had the basis of the MX500 from when they were producing earbuds (shells) that were bundled with MiniDisc Players all the way back in 1997.

The following earbuds were all OEMed by Foster:

2001
Sennheiser MX500; 32Ω (OEMed by Foster)
Sennheiser MX400; 32Ω (OEMed by Foster)
Sennheiser MX400-RC; 32Ω (made in Republic of China)

1998
Sennheiser MX300; 32Ω (OEMed by Foster)
Sennheiser MX200; 32Ω (OEMed by Foster)


The majority of MD / ΔΣ - MiniDisc Earbuds bundled with players from ~1997 onwards were either fully OEM'd by Foster and upbranded with various well known name brands and/or Foster OEMed shells were used with other non-Foster made drivers.

1993
MD / ΔΣ - MiniDisc Earbuds; <32Ω (these earbuds were only bundled with MiniDisc devices from 1993 until 2005 under the Kenwood, Onkyo, Pioneer, and Sharp brand logos. Various drivers were used; all 32 ohms or lower in impedance. Over ten various plastic shell types were used in various colors: black, metallic silver, clear transparent, and mixed. From early-1997 to mid-1998 MD models used a shell design that is known as the pre-Sennheiser MX200/MX300 type shell OEM'd by Foster. From mid-1998 until late-2000 MD models then used the same shell as the Senn MX300 also OEM'd by Foster. By 1999 only Sharp was still using the MD model line. In 2001 the Sharp MD model shell switched over to the Foster designed Senn MX500 shell type. Then in early 2002 the Sharp-MD model adopted balanced wiring with a 4-pole 3.5TRRS jack and was referred to as the "Sharp-MD-BalancedEarphone" (yes, one word). When Sharp's first Auvi ΔΣ 1-Bit MD player (MD-DS8) debuted in late-2002 the "MD" on the back of the shell was replaced with the "ΔΣ" delta-sigma symbol going forward until 2005.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

So you think that the Moondrop Chaconne no longer belong on this list anymore? I still find these to be the king of staging (along with the Maria II as the dubbed "queen"), though I have not heard the Green Mamba to argue which actually takes that spot. Interesting to be sure.

I went ahead and created a new table... Flatheads for Stageheads Let me know if anything missing that I may be forgetting.

 

[Rackhour]

Because they did not design or manufacturer it. They paid Foster of Taiwan to completely design and manufacture the MX series for them. Foster already had the basis of the MX500 from when they were producing earbuds (shells) that were bundled with MiniDisc Players all the way back in 1997.

The following earbuds were all OEMed by Foster:

2001
Sennheiser MX500; 32Ω (OEMed by Foster)
Sennheiser MX400; 32Ω (OEMed by Foster)
Sennheiser MX400-RC; 32Ω (made in Republic of China)

1998
Sennheiser MX300; 32Ω (OEMed by Foster)
Sennheiser MX200; 32Ω (OEMed by Foster)


The majority of MD / ΔΣ - MiniDisc Earbuds bundled with players from ~1997 onwards were either fully OEM'd by Foster and upbranded with various well known name brands and/or Foster OEMed shells were used with other non-Foster made drivers.

1993
MD / ΔΣ - MiniDisc Earbuds; <32Ω (these earbuds were only bundled with MiniDisc devices from 1993 until 2005 under the Kenwood, Onkyo, Pioneer, and Sharp brand logos. Various drivers were used; all 32 ohms or lower in impedance. Over ten various plastic shell types were used in various colors: black, metallic silver, clear transparent, and mixed. From early-1997 to mid-1998 MD models used a shell design that is known as the pre-Sennheiser MX200/MX300 type shell OEM'd by Foster. From mid-1998 until late-2000 MD models then used the same shell as the Senn MX300 also OEM'd by Foster. By 1999 only Sharp was still using the MD model line. In 2001 the Sharp MD model shell switched over to the Foster designed Senn MX500 shell type. Then in early 2002 the Sharp-MD model adopted balanced wiring with a 4-pole 3.5TRRS jack and was referred to as the "Sharp-MD-BalancedEarphone" (yes, one word). When Sharp's first Auvi ΔΣ 1-Bit MD player (MD-DS8) debuted in late-2002 the "MD" on the back of the shell was replaced with the "ΔΣ" delta-sigma symbol going forward until 2005.

That is very informative! Thank you!

 

[wolfen68]

I went ahead and created a new table... Flatheads for Stageheads Let me know if anything missing that I may be forgetting.

In your opinion, would the FF3 also be a potential addition to the "Flatheads for Stageheads" list? While not perfect, I find the imaging on the FF3 pretty impressive given its other attributes.

 

[samandhi]

I went ahead and created a new table... Flatheads for Stageheads Let me know if anything missing that I may be forgetting.

Nice list! I know you have not heard them, but the Aquila would also belong on this list, not at but near the top (so far as my ears are concerned), if we are also considering DIY buds (and now that there are quite a few of them out there). I also might consider the DUNU Alpha 1 (not to be confused with the lesser DUNU Alpha 3). Their staging is only beaten by the Chaconne and Maria II (still not sure about the Green Mamba) from store bought models IMHO.

In your opinion, would the FF3 also be a potential addition to the "Flatheads for Stageheads" list? While not perfect, I find the imaging on the FF3 pretty impressive given its other attributes.

I think that while this list is pretty subjective, the objective is to list those earbuds that are champions in this realm relative to all the other earbuds. Having said that, the FF3 do have nice staging, just not above and beyond (of course IMHO) what other normal earbuds have. If you have ever listened to the top 3 on this list (which I have only listened to the Maria II and the Chaconne thus far), you might see that imaging isn't the only consideration that goes into the catch-all term of "Stagehead".... There is also width, depth, height, etc... which might also encompass things like layering, imaging, macro and micro dynamics, and etc...

The point is that when all of these things align, there is just a magic about them that stand out even without having to do a "critical listen", you can just hear it. And of course, as mentioned above, this is all subjective, and YMMV. But, I believe that for quite a few years now, the Maria II and Chaconne have an overall consensus from those that have them or have listened to them, that they are some of the best in the industry in this realm (this list is the first time I am hearing that the Green Mamba are not only on this list, but help lead it).

P.S. And, I also believe (personally) that when a set of buds does this category correctly, there aren't even many open back headphones that can touch them. A couple that could make this exception (that I have heard) might be the Sennheiser HD800 (OG version), and the HD700.

 

[Ace Bee]

I went ahead and created a new table... Flatheads for Stageheads Let me know if anything missing that I may be forgetting.

This list does not contain the Sun Copper...does that mean RW-2000 projects stage on a grander space compared to Sun Copper?

 

[WoodyLuvr]

In your opinion, would the FF3 also be a potential addition to the "Flatheads for Stageheads" list? While not perfect, I find the imaging on the FF3 pretty impressive given its other attributes.

See below:

I think that while this list is pretty subjective, the objective is to list those earbuds that are champions in this realm relative to all the other earbuds. Having said that, the FF3 do have nice staging, just not above and beyond (of course IMHO) what other normal earbuds have. If you have ever listened to the top 3 on this list (which I have only listened to the Maria II and the Chaconne thus far), you might see that imaging isn't the only consideration that goes into the catch-all term of "Stagehead".... There is also width, depth, height, etc... which might also encompass things like layering, imaging, macro and micro dynamics, and etc...

The point is that when all of these things align, there is just a magic about them that stand out even without having to do a "critical listen", you can just hear it. And of course, as mentioned above, this is all subjective, and YMMV. But, I believe that for quite a few years now, the Maria II and Chaconne have an overall consensus from those that have them or have listened to them, that they are some of the best in the industry in this realm (this list is the first time I am hearing that the Green Mamba are not only on this list, but help lead it).

P.S. And, I also believe (personally) that when a set of buds does this category correctly, there aren't even many open back headphones that can touch them. A couple that could make this exception (that I have heard) might be the Sennheiser HD800 (OG version), and the HD700.

What he said

In comparison, no. That said that doesn't mean that the FF3 doesn't have good soundstage or that it is not open sounding.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

This list does not contain the Sun Copper...does that mean RW-2000 projects stage on a grander space compared to Sun Copper?

I personally tend to find most all bell-horn type shelled earbuds to be more closed (intimate & personal - more narrow) sounding (many times perfect for jazz, ambient electronic, and vocal-based/vocal-heavy genres) than compared to other earbud shell types which tend to be more open (bigger - more wide) sounding in regards to soundstage and imaging. The VE Sun and Zen SU family in particular sound more closed and intimate (more focused) to me. Again, doesn't mean that the Sun Copper staging/imaging is poor and/or bad... it is simply different and not as wide sounding as say the Yincrow RW-2000 / RW-3000 or Rose Maria I / II. I hope that makes sense.

 

[ttorbic]

Earbud review from Ian:

 

[jeejack]

@baskingshark What do you say ? Will we be lucky this time?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrdrtHo

 

[EddyRnB]

Hello guys, this is my first post, just joined headfi after founding this thread. I'm earbud fan, glad to find people who share this same peculiar passion

Sorry if this question were already asked before, as I said, just joined, but owning the TGX Serratus, makes sense to acquire the Venture Electronics asura 3.0FE? Or is it a "downgrade"? Is it worthy to get the Asura or just save for some other TOTL as a clear upgrade? Does anyone have both to make a good comparison? Thank you all very much!

 

[WoodyLuvr]

Dear Flathead Fiends (aka Earbud Comrades),

Very disappointing news for me. I had a follow-up visit today with my otolaryngologist (ENT) and audiologist and my tests were not favorable in regards to flatheads. Thankfully, nothing too serious for day-to-day life though.

With my particular type of hearing damage and loss incurred in the line of duty and so as to prevent any further deterioration of my hearing and to properly manage unique tinnitus both docs (in full cahoots with my wife of course) have decided that I can no longer have ANYTHING in and/or covering my ear canals no matter how lightly it may be (primarily due to the occlusion effect).

Therefore, I have been relegated to full-size over-the-ear open-back only headphones. Thankfully I love music far more than I do gear so I know I will manage to weather this abrupt tempest and soon adapt .

With immediate effect, I will be selling off all my remaining flathead earbuds .

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ALL SOLD! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

• FranQL Caelum; 120Ω
• RikuBuds Saber 3; 64Ω
• Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 醇净 600 LE; 600Ω
• Blur 256 PK16 White Face LE; 16Ω

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ALL SOLD! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

So as to make sure I will walk the line and fully embrace my new open-back (Sennheiser HD 600) only lifestyle and to avoid tempting myself I will refrain from participating in flathead/earbud oriented threads here on Head-Fi and over on SBAF and on the Discord earbud-related servers. I most definitely would like to still hang out and participate in threads oriented to the Sennheiser HD 600, vacuum tube amps, and other related source/accessory threads.

Accordingly, for my own sanity, I will also have to abandon the custodianship of maintaining the Flathead Timeline and The Flathead Corner (Flathead Rankings). I will of course leave the docs up on Google Docs shared to all who have the link though I would advise that some people should capture the data in some way just in case I abruptly kick the butt! I am a senior citizen so it is entirely possible.

Thank you and mad respects to you all!

 

[rcoleman1]

Dear Flathead Fiends (aka Earbud Comrades),

Very disappointing news for me. I had a follow-up visit today with my otolaryngologist (ENT) and audiologist and my tests were not favorable in regards to flatheads. Thankfully, nothing too serious for day-to-day life though.

With my particular type of hearing damage and loss incurred in the line of duty and so as to prevent any further deterioration of my hearing and to properly manage unique tinnitus both docs (in full cahoots with my wife of course) have decided that I can no longer have ANYTHING in and/or covering my ear canals no matter how lightly it may be (primarily due to the occlusion effect).

Therefore, I have been relegated to full-size over-the-ear open-back only headphones. Thankfully I love music far more than I do gear so I know I will manage to weather this abrupt tempest and soon adapt .

With immediate effect, I will be selling off all my remaining flathead earbuds .

• FranQL Caelum; 120Ω
• RikuBuds Saber 3; 64Ω
• Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 2.0 醇净 600 LE; 600Ω
• Blur 256 PK16 White Face LE; 16Ω

So as to make sure I will walk the line and fully embrace my new open-back (Sennheiser HD 600) only lifestyle and to avoid tempting myself I will refrain from participating in flathead/earbud oriented threads here on Head-Fi and over on SBAF and on the Discord earbud-related servers. I most definitely would like to still hang out and participate in threads oriented to the Sennheiser HD 600, vacuum tube amps, and other related source/accessory threads.

Accordingly, for my own sanity, I will also have to abandon the custodianship of maintaining the Flathead Timeline and The Flathead Corner (Flathead Rankings). I will of course leave the docs up on Google Docs shared to all who have the link though I would advise that some people should capture the data in some way just in case I abruptly kick the butt! I am a senior citizen so it is entirely possible.

Thank you and mad respects to you all!

Be well my friend. Thank you for your knowledge. Your golden ears and your insight will be surely missed in the earbud flathead thread for certain.