[ragecandy]

I read a review that said the FF3 need oomph to drive. What do you all think? Is there really a difference compared to an apple dongle?

They even sound fine of my ps5 controller no oomph needed

 

[itwasluck]

If you search this thread for something like "high impedance quality," you'll probably get multiple posts that will explain better than I. In theory, more coils= higher impedance = finer control of the transducer. But I'm sure there are experts here who can go into more detail if you're interested!

It might also be a preference of the maker / manufacturer. Both TGXEAR and Yinman have sets with 600+ Ohms, while Riku has sets with 32 to 300 Ohms.

I definitely feel that the higher ohms you go, the better you are able to control the bass. The Yinman 600s are a prime example but so are some of the rikubuds.
Grand Berserker 2 - 300 ohms
Grand Saber 2 - 150 ohms
Grand Alter Saber 2 - 80 ohms
Grand Rider 2 - 32 ohms
As the resistance goes down, so does the bass. I know that Riku was trying to use a 32 ohm driver for the Berserker line but that didn't happen. Not saying you can't get great bass out of lower resistance sets but its MUCH easier to do it with an equivalent higher ohm driver. It's also fair to say that tuning a higher ohm driver for bass is easier as well.

 

[samandhi]

Thanks, they sound every bit as good as I remembered. I haven't kept up with the earbud lineup since I got these so I don't know if there's better out there now, but the way the treble sings on these with excellent instrument separation and overall open detailed sound got me reaching for them every day. Between these, the Stax, and the ADX5000, I'm not even peeking at the market anymore.

I know Riku/Woody used to have a list of the good stuff, but I guess not anymore with Riku doing his own thing now

Well, It is my opinion that there is nothing better in the category that these occupy. I also still think these share the top spot (with the Maria II) for being the biggest soundstage of all current buds.

I've been thinking for a while about making a 15.4mm version of the PK shell.
I think it would be thinner and easier to use than the MX500 shell and would be good for business.

I am actually finding (to my surprise) that I really like the DP100 shell. They are similar to the MX500 (in a way) but much thinner and don't really stick out from your ears as much IMO.

If you could answer a few queries, this will help the community fine tune their suggestions better:

1) Budget?
2) Preferred music genres
3) Are you a treblehead/basshead/treble sensitive etc?
4) What source are you using to drive your gear?





Perhaps consider the Yincrow RW-2000.

In the same vein might also be the FiiO FF3 (similar to the RW2000).

Sorry. I should have posted my requirements earlier.

1. For right now between twenty and forty dollars. Of course the cheaper the better. Later on ill increase my budget. But now just want to get my toes wet.
2. Jazz. Jazz, jazz and some more jazz. But I have also,very recently, gotten into Americana. The Dead, old crow medicine show, hogslop string band and the like.
3. Really I'm not a bass head or treble head. But I'm not sensitive to treble if done right. My preferred sound signature would probably be on the warmish slde(think porta pro or the truthear hola). I also don't mind a v shape.
4. Mainly portable. So I can't run 150ohm flats unless the sensitivety is really high. And I have nothing to run a balanced cable. I would say my best dap is the cowon d2+. But I run out of my tablet/ phone as well. And I do have a cx1993 dongle.

I hope this helps.

There MIGHT be something (store bought) in that price range that will do justice to good recordings of jazz, but I am not aware of them. You might have to go into a little bit higher price bracket for good store bought ones. Else, you can try some DIY like @FranQL suggested, they really can be top notch for not top notch money.

Thank you very to the both of you.

DIY huh? I'll have to look into it. Don't really know where to start.

Question about the yincrow x6, isn't that a re branded video? Or the other way around? I just got the vldo. Its a tad on the brights side. I had to use the v shape preset in wavelet to make to more my liking. That earbud responds nicely to eq.

Thank you once again. I've got plenty to look into now.

Edit- one more question. Is there some type of easy trick to putting on foams? I tremors and putting them on is a pain.

The trick with installing foams is "patience". Once you have learned the trick it becomes fairly easy. Just remember that they stretch quite a bit, but not if you move fast. If they are being stretched slowly they can go quite a bit bigger than the buds diameter.

Having said that, what I do is stretch them a bit before trying to install them, then insert the lip over one side (closest to you) and hold that with your thumb; the same one you are holding the buds with. Then, stretch it around the back half and hold that with your forefinger or middle finger. With your free hand move to the opposite side of the bud and pull it out and down rolling the foam over the edge of the bud (while still holding the other 2 sides with your other fingers). When you get it close just use your finger to pull it out just a bit more and sort of roll your fingers up towards the top of the bud without moving the foam above the underside of the bud, and let it go in a quick motion. This will help pull the lip out and over the bottom of the bud. Then, while still holding what you've got, move around the bud "snapping" the foam to pull the lip out and fit over the bottom of the bud. Hopefully this will make sense?!

Are high impedance flat heads kinda like the "best of the best"? I never even knew high impedance buds existed until a few months ago. And I was blown away by the fact. I thought only cans like senny or hifiman used high impedance.

Basically I'm wondering what advantages high impedance buds have over lower impedance ones. I'm wondering if its enough to either buy something like a higher quality dap/qudelix 5k.

Anyways ill check out rikubuds. Thank you

Being a higher impedance driver usually indicates that there are more windings for the voice coil, so it allows less movement (sort of like a driver coating), so is able to rebound quicker giving better separation, imaging, and overall clarity naturally even before tuning. This makes a DD capable of having similar separation properties to a planar driver. DDs are known for not having great separation in the upper registers, and this is a great way to bridge the gap a bit. This is also why high impedance head gear is more "under control".

The reason I say "usually" is because there are those out there that will simply add a resistor to the driver to make them appear higher impedance, simply because they know people will buy them just because they are higher impedance.

High Impedance head gear is also less susceptible to audible noise while still being able to reproduce micro and macro details in a recording. Of course, this can also be (sort of) accomplished by having a set that is less sensitive, but that actually wastes the energy needed to drive a lower sensitivity set to the same levels. As an example, I have the AKG K702 and they are fairly low impedance (at 62Ohms), but to drive them is VERY much like a 600Ohm set because their sensitivity is only 81(ish) dB/mW.... which is also why they are capable of a whopping 200mW input power.

Also, as long as the sensitivity is higher, the higher impedance drivers are actually easier to drive for a longer time (this is more geared towards anything battery operated). If you know the math, then you will know that the more voltage you need the less amperage you will need. The opposite is also true. So if you have higher impedance drivers they require more voltage, true, but they also require less amperage (high current draw will kill a battery much quicker than a low current draw). So, in essence as long as your amplifier is capable of providing the voltage needed to properly drive them, high impedance head gear is actually easier to drive (I know that actually kind of sounds counterintuitive). It is a bit more complicated than this, but you get the idea...

 

[ttorbic]

Well, It is my opinion that there is nothing better in the category that these occupy. I also still think these share the top spot (with the Maria II) for being the biggest soundstage of all current buds.

I am actually finding (to my surprise) that I really like the DP100 shell. They are similar to the MX500 (in a way) but much thinner and don't really stick out from your ears as much IMO.

In the same vein might also be the FiiO FF3 (similar to the RW2000).

There MIGHT be something (store bought) in that price range that will do justice to good recordings of jazz, but I am not aware of them. You might have to go into a little bit higher price bracket for good store bought ones. Else, you can try some DIY like @FranQL suggested, they really can be top notch for not top notch money.

The trick with installing foams is "patience". Once you have learned the trick it becomes fairly easy. Just remember that they stretch quite a bit, but not if you move fast. If they are being stretched slowly they can go quite a bit bigger than the buds diameter.

Having said that, what I do is stretch them a bit before trying to install them, then insert the lip over one side (closest to you) and hold that with your thumb; the same one you are holding the buds with. Then, stretch it around the back half and hold that with your forefinger or middle finger. With your free hand move to the opposite side of the bud and pull it out and down rolling the foam over the edge of the bud (while still holding the other 2 sides with your other fingers). When you get it close just use your finger to pull it out just a bit more and sort of roll your fingers up towards the top of the bud without moving the foam above the underside of the bud, and let it go in a quick motion. This will help pull the lip out and over the bottom of the bud. Then, while still holding what you've got, move around the bud "snapping" the foam to pull the lip out and fit over the bottom of the bud. Hopefully this will make sense?!

Being a higher impedance driver usually indicates that there are more windings for the voice coil, so it allows less movement (sort of like a driver coating), so is able to rebound quicker giving better separation, imaging, and overall clarity naturally even before tuning. This makes a DD capable of having similar separation properties to a planar driver. DDs are known for not having great separation in the upper registers, and this is a great way to bridge the gap a bit. This is also why high impedance head gear is more "under control".

The reason I say "usually" is because there are those out there that will simply add a resistor to the driver to make them appear higher impedance, simply because they know people will buy them just because they are higher impedance.

High Impedance head gear is also less susceptible to audible noise while still being able to reproduce micro and macro details in a recording. Of course, this can also be (sort of) accomplished by having a set that is less sensitive, but that actually wastes the energy needed to drive a lower sensitivity set to the same levels. As an example, I have the AKG K702 and they are fairly low impedance (at 62Ohms), but to drive them is VERY much like a 600Ohm set because their sensitivity is only 81(ish) dB/mW.... which is also why they are capable of a whopping 200mW input power.

Also, as long as the sensitivity is higher, the higher impedance drivers are actually easier to drive for a longer time (this is more geared towards anything battery operated). If you know the math, then you will know that the more voltage you need the less amperage you will need. The opposite is also true. So if you have higher impedance drivers they require more voltage, true, but they also require less amperage (high current draw will kill a battery much quicker than a low current draw). So, in essence as long as your amplifier is capable of providing the voltage needed to properly drive them, high impedance head gear is actually easier to drive (I know that actually kind of sounds counterintuitive). It is a bit more complicated than this, but you get the idea...

And the expert has chimed in, thank you

 

[marmagas]

Any tips how to improve Fiio FF3 fit into my ears?
Tried at first bass foam now i am in donuts(foams).
I still missing that tight fit of lets say X6 or LBBS.
maybe its my ears.Has anyone tried silicone rings with FF3?
Any recs would be approciated.

 

[samandhi]

Any tips how to improve Fiio FF3 fit into my ears?
Tried at first bass foam now i am in donuts(foams).
I still missing that tight fit of lets say X6 or LBBS.
maybe its my ears.Has anyone tried silicone rings with FF3?
Any recs would be approciated.

For me they are the best fitting of all my buds, but using silicone rings should add some more "anti slip properties". This doesn't necessarily mean they will fit better, they just won't move around in your ears.

Having said that, over ear wings and in ear wings will work even better if you need it that badly. These can be had from AE for pretty cheaply.

 

[marmagas]

Thanks @samandhi ,just did a search in AE and i am lost,
Dont know which ones fit FF3.
Please can you point out some that fits?

 

[jogawag]

Thanks @samandhi ,just did a search in AE and i am lost,
Dont know which ones fit FF3.
Please can you point out some that fits?

You can search it with keyword "Fiio FF3" in Aliexpress.

 

[marmagas]

Will these do the job?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...31009ec532!12000031081755094!rec!GR!162074953

 

[samandhi]

Thanks @samandhi ,just did a search in AE and i am lost,
Dont know which ones fit FF3.
Please can you point out some that fits?

Will these do the job?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004937122995.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.1.32267e6fdKHCYL&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40000.326746.0&scm_id=1007.40000.326746.0&scm-url=1007.40000.326746.0&pvid=2a342716-8f7d-4f66-9340-f14788056cda&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40000.326746.0,pvid:2a342716-8f7d-4f66-9340-f14788056cda,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8111#429&pdp_npi=3@dis!EUR!0.88!0.55!!!!!@210318ea16835597594531009ec532!12000031081755094!rec!GR!162074953

Yes, those could work.

 

[h8uthemost]

Well, It is my opinion that there is nothing better in the category that these occupy. I also still think these share the top spot (with the Maria II) for being th

There MIGHT be something (store bought) in that price range that will do justice to good recordings of jazz, but I am not aware of them. You might have to go into a little bit higher price bracket for good store bought ones. Else, you can try some DIY like @FranQL suggested, they really can be top notch for not top notch money.

The trick with installing foams is "patience". Once you have learned the trick it becomes fairly easy. Just remember that they stretch quite a bit, but not if you move fast. If they are being stretched slowly they can go quite a bit bigger than the buds diameter.

Having said that, what I do is stretch them a bit before trying to install them, then insert the lip over one side (closest to you) and hold that with your thumb; the same one you are holding the buds with. Then, stretch it around the back half and hold that with your forefinger or middle finger. With your free hand move to the opposite side of the bud and pull it out and down rolling the foam over the edge of the bud (while still holding the other 2 sides with your other fingers). When you get it close just use your finger to pull it out just a bit more and sort of roll your fingers up towards the top of the bud without moving the foam above the underside of the bud, and let it go in a quick motion. This will help pull the lip out and over the bottom of the bud. Then, while still holding what you've got, move around the bud "snapping" the foam to pull the lip out and fit over the bottom of the bud. Hopefully this will make sense?!

Being a higher impedance driver usually indicates that there are more windings for the voice coil, so it allows less movement (sort of like a driver coating), so is able to rebound quicker giving better separation, imaging, and overall clarity naturally even before tuning. This makes a DD capable of having similar separation properties to a planar driver. DDs are known for not having great separation in the upper registers, and this is a great way to bridge the gap a bit. This is also why high impedance head gear is more "under control".

The reason I say "usually" is because there are those out there that will simply add a resistor to the driver to make them appear higher impedance, simply because they know people will buy them just because they are higher impedance.

High Impedance head gear is also less susceptible to audible noise while still being able to reproduce micro and macro details in a recording. Of course, this can also be (sort of) accomplished by having a set that is less sensitive, but that actually wastes the energy needed to drive a lower sensitivity set to the same levels. As an example, I have the AKG K702 and they are fairly low impedance (at 62Ohms), but to drive them is VERY much like a 600Ohm set because their sensitivity is only 81(ish) dB/mW.... which is also why they are capable of a whopping 200mW input power.

Also, as long as the sensitivity is higher, the higher impedance drivers are actually easier to drive for a longer time (this is more geared towards anything battery operated). If you know the math, then you will know that the more voltage you need the less amperage you will need. The opposite is also true. So if you have higher impedance drivers they require more voltage, true, but they also require less amperage (high current draw will kill a battery much quicker than a low current draw). So, in essence as long as your amplifier is capable of providing the voltage needed to properly drive them, high impedance head gear is actually easier to drive (I know that actually kind of sounds counterintuitive). It is a bit more complicated than this, but you get the idea...

Well, It is my opinion that there is nothing better in the category that these occupy. I also still think these share the top spot (with the Maria II) for being the biggest soundstage of all current buds.

I am actually finding (to my surprise) that I really like the DP100 shell. They are similar to the MX500 (in a way) but much thinner and don't really stick out from your ears as much IMO.

In the same vein might also be the FiiO FF3 (similar to the RW2000).

There MIGHT be something (store bought) in that price range that will do justice to good recordings of jazz, but I am not aware of them. You might have to go into a little bit higher price bracket for good store bought ones. Else, you can try some DIY like @FranQL suggested, they really can be top notch for not top notch money.

The trick with installing foams is "patience". Once you have learned the trick it becomes fairly easy. Just remember that they stretch quite a bit, but not if you move fast. If they are being stretched slowly they can go quite a bit bigger than the buds diameter.

Having said that, what I do is stretch them a bit before trying to install them, then insert the lip over one side (closest to you) and hold that with your thumb; the same one you are holding the buds with. Then, stretch it around the back half and hold that with your forefinger or middle finger. With your free hand move to the opposite side of the bud and pull it out and down rolling the foam over the edge of the bud (while still holding the other 2 sides with your other fingers). When you get it close just use your finger to pull it out just a bit more and sort of roll your fingers up towards the top of the bud without moving the foam above the underside of the bud, and let it go in a quick motion. This will help pull the lip out and over the bottom of the bud. Then, while still holding what you've got, move around the bud "snapping" the foam to pull the lip out and fit over the bottom of the bud. Hopefully this will make sense?!

Being a higher impedance driver usually indicates that there are more windings for the voice coil, so it allows less movement (sort of like a driver coating), so is able to rebound quicker giving better separation, imaging, and overall clarity naturally even before tuning. This makes a DD capable of having similar separation properties to a planar driver. DDs are known for not having great separation in the upper registers, and this is a great way to bridge the gap a bit. This is also why high impedance head gear is more "under control".

The reason I say "usually" is because there are those out there that will simply add a resistor to the driver to make them appear higher impedance, simply because they know people will buy them just because they are higher impedance.

High Impedance head gear is also less susceptible to audible noise while still being able to reproduce micro and macro details in a recording. Of course, this can also be (sort of) accomplished by having a set that is less sensitive, but that actually wastes the energy needed to drive a lower sensitivity set to the same levels. As an example, I have the AKG K702 and they are fairly low impedance (at 62Ohms), but to drive them is VERY much like a 600Ohm set because their sensitivity is only 81(ish) dB/mW.... which is also why they are capable of a whopping 200mW input power.

Also, as long as the sensitivity is higher, the higher impedance drivers are actually easier to drive for a longer time (this is more geared towards anything battery operated). If you know the math, then you will know that the more voltage you need the less amperage you will need. The opposite is also true. So if you have higher impedance drivers they require more voltage, true, but they also require less amperage (high current draw will kill a battery much quicker than a low current draw). So, in essence as long as your amplifier is capable of providing the voltage needed to properly drive them, high impedance head gear is actually easier to drive (I know that actually kind of sounds counterintuitive). It is a bit more complicated than this, but you get the idea...

Wow. Thank you for all that info! Especially about the foams. I guess patience is the main thing. I've read somewhere about flipping them inside out, and that would make it easier to put them on. But I've never been able to turn them inside out.

Thanks for the ohm breakdown. That helps a lot.

And last but not least the suggestion of diy. that seems to be the consensus for jazz. So I guess ill have to go that route.

Thank you for all the great info. I appreciate your effort

 

[o0genesis0o]

I read a review that said the FF3 need oomph to drive. What do you all think? Is there really a difference compared to an apple dongle?

Get loud with apple dongle? Easily.

Way nicer when paired with Apple dongle + external amp? Absolutely.

 

[samandhi]

And the expert has chimed in, thank you

Wow. Thank you for all that info! Especially about the foams. I guess patience is the main thing. I've read somewhere about flipping them inside out, and that would make it easier to put them on. But I've never been able to turn them inside out.

Thanks for the ohm breakdown. That helps a lot.

And last but not least the suggestion of diy. that seems to be the consensus for jazz. So I guess ill have to go that route.

Thank you for all the great info. I appreciate your effort

You are very welcome!

@h8uthemost do let us know what you end up with for your jazz listening?!

 

[mt877]

Wow. Thank you for all that info! Especially about the foams. I guess patience is the main thing. I've read somewhere about flipping them inside out, and that would make it easier to put them on. But I've never been able to turn them inside out.

Thanks for the ohm breakdown. That helps a lot.

And last but not least the suggestion of diy. that seems to be the consensus for jazz. So I guess ill have to go that route.

Thank you for all the great info. I appreciate your effort

If you can do a simple re-cable job, then you will have an outstanding set of buds for jazz. I'm listening to Louis Armstrong, Spyro Gyra, Euge Groove, Dave Valentin, Mindi Abair, Keiko Matsui and other jazz artists with these buds. Besides jazz, these buds are very good all-rounders and you won't be disappointed. I would recommend this simple re-cable set of buds to everyone in this thread, they are that good.

Docomo PK2 cut line buds and replacement headphone cable 3.5mm from AliExpress.

No special tuning required, just re-cable and you're good to go. If I remember correctly, I used small cable clips to secure the cables inside the shell instead of tying a knot in the cable. There really is no space in the shell for a knot unless you are using a thin cable like the original cable.

 

[Stevehamny]

If you can do a simple re-cable job, then you will have an outstanding set of buds for jazz. I'm listening to Louis Armstrong, Spyro Gyra, Euge Groove, Dave Valentin, Mindi Abair, Keiko Matsui and other jazz artists with these buds. Besides jazz, these buds are very good all-rounders and you won't be disappointed. I would recommend this simple re-cable set of buds to everyone in this thread, they are that good.

Docomo PK2 cut line buds and replacement headphone cable 3.5mm from AliExpress.

No special tuning required, just re-cable and you're good to go. If I remember correctly, I used small cable clips to secure the cables inside the shell instead of tying a knot in the cable. There really is no space in the shell for a knot unless you are using a thin cable like the original cable.

Thank you for the heads-up on this, from another avid jazz listener. But word to the wise, that particular cable shows up as a $1 item with $16 shipping to America! (May not be the same for other countries, but for me, yowza. Gotta love that backend pricing!)