[samandhi]

It seems like the FF3/FF5 are hot buds right now. Question is which of the two fit my needs better. Being able to hear who is above or below me and where people are coming from in games like R6 Siege or Warzone where you have layers of dynamic audio cues. There are some really great buds that don't cut it for that, I tried out the ST10s silver from Smabat a few years back and despite their great sound they were terrible for what I was looking for.

Warning: I am going from memory here because I currently have all of those packaged and ready to send off in the mail.

It is my belief that the Yinman and the FF3 seem to be the most "holographic" where that is concerned (for my ears). Having said that, I don't believe that any of these on the list have super authentic height awareness. Width and depth are there (dynamics are pretty amazing), but you aren't going to get the height awareness that you would get from a good open back set of headphones. Of course, this is mainly because you are putting a tiny transducer in your ear, and they are indeed better in this regard than (most) IEMs. That isn't to say that they couldn't be effective at pinpointing how high or low something is, and I would definitely use them for gaming for this purpose, but I would not rely on these for competitive/professional gaming. Though as usual, YMMV, and every ear is different. You may hear a big difference in this area more so than I might, and I very infrequently use earbuds for gaming.

I love the ST10S B&G 150ohm version (is the one I have), but I don't find the staging to be better than the ones I mentioned earlier, so yes, I agree with you about those. Separation might be a bit better on the 150ohm version, but I don't find them to be bigger or smaller than the silver version you have/had.

Having said all of that, and if you are not totally done with headphones, I might suggest the Sennheiser HD700. They are second only to the OG HD800 where staging is concerned. The reason I suggest these over the HD800 is because not only are the HD800 still very costly to get, but they are much less comfortable in the long run. The HD700, you can get (nowadays) for about $200 used, and they are so light, and the cups big that you don't even notice them on your head (even after hours of gameplay). I use these all the time for anything requiring spatial cues. Back in 2012, these were $900 headphones, and I can say that they are worth that IMO.

Spoiler: Sennheiser HD700

Just some thoughts that you can safely ignore if you choose to...

 

[Au13]

Warning: I am going from memory here because I currently have all of those packaged and ready to send off in the mail.

It is my belief that the Yinman and the FF3 seem to be the most "holographic" where that is concerned (for my ears). Having said that, I don't believe that any of these on the list have super authentic height awareness. Width and depth are there (dynamics are pretty amazing), but you aren't going to get the height awareness that you would get from a good open back set of headphones. Of course, this is mainly because you are putting a tiny transducer in your ear, and they are indeed better in this regard than (most) IEMs. That isn't to say that they couldn't be effective at pinpointing how high or low something is, and I would definitely use them for gaming for this purpose, but I would not rely on these for competitive/professional gaming. Though as usual, YMMV, and every ear is different. You may hear a big difference in this area more so than I might, and I very infrequently use earbuds for gaming.

I love the ST10S B&G 150ohm version (is the one I have), but I don't find the staging to be better than the ones I mentioned earlier, so yes, I agree with you about those. Separation might be a bit better on the 150ohm version, but I don't find them to be bigger or smaller than the silver version you have/had.

Having said all of that, and if you are not totally done with headphones, I might suggest the Sennheiser HD700. They are second only to the OG HD800 where staging is concerned. The reason I suggest these over the HD800 is because not only are the HD800 still very costly to get, but they are much less comfortable in the long run. The HD700, you can get (nowadays) for about $200 used, and they are so light, and the cups big that you don't even notice them on your head (even after hours of gameplay). I use these all the time for anything requiring spatial cues. Back in 2012, these were $900 headphones, and I can say that they are worth that IMO.

Spoiler: Sennheiser HD700

Just some thoughts that you can safely ignore if you choose to...

Appreciate the thoughts. With headphones I get hot ears and I get them quick, 30 minutes or less and I can feel it. I've tried open back, "cooling" gel cushions and even the HD600 with its velour pads but I may be cursed to admire good headphones from afar or in tiny intervals that don't suit my needs. This is all before considering the warm climate that make them unbearable in the spring/summer.
IEMs in my experience work the best for what I need but my small ear canals just can't get past the soreness. Even if I did get rid of that pain overtime That plugged feeling and head noise down to your own breathing you get with them can be extremely distracting when communicating with others while playing.
Nothing beats the comfort of a good earbud and unfortunately I'm chasing a need for them that the other two do so much better.

As a side note Moondrops LIEBESLEID is a recommendation I was given straight from here a few years back but I could never justify the price with a fixed cable, might work for any owners or those in the market.

The FF3/FF5 have the convenience of being Amazon ready here I might have to A/B them. Since the Yinman might be a month out(and a hard return) If I don't like them

 

[imackler]

When asked for a general reference to what you are asking, I normally would recommend 5 because I believe that these TOTL earbuds sound (to me) like a cross between really good IEMs and really good headphones. These range in price from $80(ish) to $250(ish). They are ALL fantastic and also all different from one another (though some not as night and day). They all have figured out how to do bass properly in an earbud, and also all have big staging and proper imaging (for gaming and movies). Yet, even the warms ones have a clarity to them that I don't think you would miss too much detail with.

Having said that (and with no pricing information from you) these are my five recs:

• Yinman 2.0 600 (wooden shells)
• FiiO FF3 (cheapest of the bunch)
• FiiO FF5
• Yincrow RW2000
• Yincrow RW3000 (most expensive of the bunch)

There are plenty other great ones out there, but these just scream open back headphones to my ears, and most of the others I have heard still are decidedly earbuds. If you have any questions about them, I might be able to help as I also own all five of these. And there are quite a few people on here that also have some or all of these.

If you ever feel up to it, I'd love to hear some of the strengths and weaknesses of the five listed, and if any excel at certain genres. Kind of a state of the union of some of the best/most recommended. Actually, I'd love to hear that from as many of you have some of the above...

Is that Yinman 600 the one currently on Aliexpress ,https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832631375111.html? Is aliexpress the best site to order? The price seems lower than elsewhere so I wanted to exercise caution (never ordered from before)...

 

[samandhi]

Appreciate the thoughts. With headphones I get hot ears and I get them quick, 30 minutes or less and I can feel it. I've tried open back, "cooling" gel cushions and even the HD600 with its velour pads but I may be cursed to admire good headphones from afar or in tiny intervals that don't suit my needs. This is all before considering the warm climate that make them unbearable in the spring/summer.
IEMs in my experience work the best for what I need but my small ear canals just can't get past the soreness. Even if I did get rid of that pain overtime That plugged feeling and head noise down to your own breathing you get with them can be extremely distracting when communicating with others while playing.
Nothing beats the comfort of a good earbud and unfortunately I'm chasing a need for them that the other two do so much better.

As a side note Moondrops LIEBESLEID is a recommendation I was given straight from here a few years back but I could never justify the price with a fixed cable, might work for any owners or those in the market.

The FF3/FF5 have the convenience of being Amazon ready here I might have to A/B them. Since the Yinman might be a month out(and a hard return) If I don't like them

You are welcome!

I can certainly understand the issues you face. And it is a shame that none of those will work for you.

I have the predecessor of the Liebeleid (the Chaconne), and while I put the mids and treble as the best tuned I have heard (in any head gear), they are lacking in bass enough that they would not do for what you are looking for. If it were just for classical music, or acoustic, I might double down on that though, fixed cable be damned.

That is a good idea, then you can decide for yourself which you want/need. While the FF5 are more pinpoint accurate (compared to the FF3), the staging and (especially) the bass are superior on the FF3. Keep in mind though that the FF3 have a fixed cable also. It has not bothered me.

If you ever feel up to it, I'd love to hear some of the strengths and weaknesses of the five listed, and if any excel at certain genres. Kind of a state of the union of some of the best/most recommended. Actually, I'd love to hear that from as many of you have some of the above...

Is that Yinman 600 the one currently on Aliexpress ,https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832631375111.html? Is aliexpress the best site to order? The price seems lower than elsewhere so I wanted to exercise caution (never ordered from before)...

I will try and type something out on what you are asking, but know that I will have to do it by (recent) memory because I can't listen to them as I type my thoughts. I have them packed up and ready to mail to my brother.

Yes, that is the one, sort of. AFAIK, this is the ONLY place that you can purchase the Yinman buds. If you have links to "elsewhere" I would love it if you would share here?!

Here is what you will get when you order from the AE site you linked (the didn't change the photo for the new ones):

Spoiler

Edit: Oh, minus the DX300...

 

[waynes world]

@twister6 's reviews are always excellent. As is this one regarding the obviously excellent TGX Ear Serratus

 

[baskingshark]

If you ever feel up to it, I'd love to hear some of the strengths and weaknesses of the five listed, and if any excel at certain genres. Kind of a state of the union of some of the best/most recommended. Actually, I'd love to hear that from as many of you have some of the above...

Is that Yinman 600 the one currently on Aliexpress ,https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832631375111.html? Is aliexpress the best site to order? The price seems lower than elsewhere so I wanted to exercise caution (never ordered from before)...

Yep that is the link I bought mine from. Try stacking some coupons or coins to lower the price even further!

As the new version of Yinman 600 is not detachable, you can actually message the seller to choose amongst a 2.5mm, 3.5mm or 4.4mm termination, and he will do this custom termination for you at no additional cost! This earbud seems like a PITA to drive (low sensitivity, high impedance), so I think if you have balanced sources at home, no harm asking for a 2.5mm or 4.4mm termination to benefit from more power.

 

[Carpet]

You are welcome!

I can certainly understand the issues you face. And it is a shame that none of those will work for you.

I have the predecessor of the Liebeleid (the Chaconne), and while I put the mids and treble as the best tuned I have heard (in any head gear), they are lacking in bass enough that they would not do for what you are looking for. If it were just for classical music, or acoustic, I might double down on that though, fixed cable be damned.

That is a good idea, then you can decide for yourself which you want/need. While the FF5 are more pinpoint accurate (compared to the FF3), the staging and (especially) the bass are superior on the FF3. Keep in mind though that the FF3 have a fixed cable also. It has not bothered me.

I will try and type something out on what you are asking, but know that I will have to do it by (recent) memory because I can't listen to them as I type my thoughts. I have them packed up and ready to mail to my brother.

Yes, that is the one, sort of. AFAIK, this is the ONLY place that you can purchase the Yinman buds. If you have links to "elsewhere" I would love it if you would share here?!

Here is what you will get when you order from the AE site you linked (the didn't change the photo for the new ones):

Spoiler

Edit: Oh, minus the DX300...

Dammit, so much for the best bundle deal of 2023!

 

[samandhi]

Dammit, so much for the best bundle deal of 2023!

IKR? ROFL

 

[ian91]

@twister6 's reviews are always excellent. As is this one regarding the obviously excellent TGX Ear Serratus

It was actually penned by the lovely @Wyville, nonetheless, a great review with plenty of insight on the Serratus and its pros and cons.

 

[Oscarilbo]

Guys, someone is selling me an used Zen 2.0 OMEGA. I’ve been wanting the regular Zen 2.0 because the regular MX500 shells are so light!

How does the Zen OMEGA compares to the standard Zen 2.0 in sound and comfort?

 

[Wyville]

@twister6 's reviews are always excellent. As is this one regarding the obviously excellent TGX Ear Serratus

Thanks for the compliment!

It was actually penned by the lovely @Wyville, nonetheless, a great review with plenty of insight on the Serratus and its pros and cons.

Thanks, the confusion happens more often. I think it is probably because of @twister6's good looks and iconic kitchen counter that people overlook the other contributors at Tw6.

 

[fooltoque]

Just landed! Burning in begins!

Just got mine in too. Unfortunately the left side cable is DOA. I don't feel like returning them though, after listening for an hour using FF5's cables.
First impression is a whole lot of detail. More than anything else I own. Piano sounds fantastic. More impressions after I listen for a few weeks

 

[samandhi]

Just got mine in too. Unfortunately the left side cable is DOA. I don't feel like returning them though, after listening for an hour using FF5's cables.
First impression is a whole lot of detail. More than anything else I own. Piano sounds fantastic. More impressions after I listen for a few weeks

Congrats on your new shiny!

Sorry you had issues with the cable (surprises me actually), but it is good that it is not a fixed cable. I look forward to reading more impressions from you.

Edit: You could always write to Yincrow and see if they might send you a new cable (without having to return the whole package). And I don't blame you for not wanting to send them back.

 

[jogawag]

Just got mine in too. Unfortunately the left side cable is DOA. I don't feel like returning them though, after listening for an hour using FF5's cables.
First impression is a whole lot of detail. More than anything else I own. Piano sounds fantastic. More impressions after I listen for a few weeks

Unfortunately, it seems that the responsibility for QC of earbuds made in China still lies with the buyer.
Even the Yincrow Calf ...

 

[samandhi]

Unfortunately, it seems that the responsibility for QC of earbuds made in China still lies with the buyer.
Even the Yincrow Calf ...

Agreed, and it is a sad state of affairs too IMHO.