[seanc6441]

To be fair this wasn't really a part of my original question, but I take you point that perhaps it should have been.

Also, I had to look up what "horses for courses" meant! My dictionary tells me it's a British idiom so not surprising I hadn't heard that before

lol

means right tools for the right job

 

[silverfishla]

Have earbuds gotten so good that traditional open-back headphones are effectively obsolete, at least for those of us afflicted with the earbud disease?

I recently got a pair of Audio Technica AD2000s, which are very, very good headphones. But I keep asking myself what they bring to the table that my very, very good earbuds don't, and I keep failing to come up with a good answer. The soundstage is more well-formed and holographic, on the ATHs, maybe more precise, in a way that I've never heard an earbud match. But I've never had an earbud that cost this much either. I'll need to spend more time with the AD2ks before giving up on them and putting them up for sale, but that's the direction this seems to be heading, and I'm probably going to be done with open dynamic cans after this. I keep thinking "I could have bought a new Mojito for about the same price!"

I suppose that the very best of the best full-size open cans aren't going to be threatened by earbuds very soon, but for anything less than that topmost tier, earbuds seem to replace them in the same way that IEMs don't replace closed-back full-sizers.

-------
@DBaldock9 @Ceteru

Thanks for the clarification! I think I was confused about the different versions, because the experience BS1 is actually out of stock. Looks like I have a tough decision to make between these and the Masyas

I would say that you are fairly correct in your assessment as pertains to me. I listen to my Rose Mojito more than my HD650’s. I get equal enjoyment out of the two, but the earbud on the go factor decreases my use of a larger headphone. Putting around the house or doing chores, i’ll Always use my earbuds. The Mojito is a great bud and is close to my IBasso IT03 in resolution and energy. Those are my two go-to’s for mobility.

 

[antdroid]

What do you get from the M220 or others that you don't get from earbuds?

I meant to specify only dynamic open-backs, because obviously planars like your HE560 are going to be capable of things a dynamic driver of any size isn't going to be able to match.

Probably more effortless soundstage, extended frequency response? More powerful dynamics? At a guess!

Of course if you match prices evenly which is a fair test it may be closer than you’d expect.

If I had to choose M220 vs Masyas, I'll choose Masyas.

M220 isn't the greatest open back dynamic but it works well for using with my Arrius Piano and that's really it's sole purpose in life (for me).

HE560 absolutely beats any of my ear buds/IEMs in every single way.

I haven't owned any other dynamic headphone outside the M220 in a while after going planar and never looking back. That said, I still think something like the HD600 series will beat the equivalent ear bud.

If we're talking sub $100 dynamic over-ear vs ear buds which are mostly in that under $100 price range, I can see your train of thought. Some of these ear buds are pushing the quality level pretty high these days while sub-$100 over-ear headphones are really medicore for the most part.

 

[Ceteru]

Just did a little experiment I concocted earlier in the week; I put in my Monks, then placed my closed over-ear headphones on over top (detachable cable removed). I wanted to test if/how isolation would affect the sound; I've seen how placing hands over the cups on my open-back headphones muffles the sound.

The result of this experiment was about what I expected; the buds lost much of their "richness" and body. They need the open air to thrive it would seem I think if I needed isolation, I would just use headphones (or IEMs at a pinch), as this kind of finagling doesn't have a positive effect.

 

[doggiemom]

But comparing (what price are the utopia’s, over a grand... $2000... more?) to ‘cheap’ earbuds isn’t even a contest ^^

You could own the $700 cypherus red dragon’s and it’d still be unfair!

Edit: it’s $4000 I rest my case haha

Not comparing at all. The original question was whether earbuds will replace open headphones, and to me the answer is no because I use earbuds and headphones in different situations.

For the record, I didn't pay $4k for the Utopias. I met an authorized Focal dealer at Can Jam last year, and he gave me a great price on a brand new set with full warranty.

 

[Saoshyant]

Ok, totally new toy syndrome, but I really am loving Raven Mk 2. It's my third Crow Audio earbud, where the first impressed me with what a Monk mod could accomplish, and the second was solid but not my cup of tea as it was a little too neutral for my tastes as I'm a fun based listener, and the Mk 2 EQ'd for bass is really quite lovely. Haven't listened to System of a Down in awhile, and it's really rocking on these with Shanling M1.

 

[DJ The Rocket]

Ok, totally new toy syndrome, but I really am loving Raven Mk 2. It's my third Crow Audio earbud, where the first impressed me with what a Monk mod could accomplish, and the second was solid but not my cup of tea as it was a little too neutral for my tastes as I'm a fun based listener, and the Mk 2 EQ'd for bass is really quite lovely. Haven't listened to System of a Down in awhile, and it's really rocking on these with Shanling M1.

I'm always interested in a new earbud with strong bass performance! Would you say it's more sub-bass or mid-bass focused? How "refined" is the sound overall? (Both as in "a refined and cultured taste" as well as "the Monk has been refined")

 

[Saoshyant]

I don't think either version of the Raven were Monk mods, just the original Crow earbud. The crafter is friends with the maker of the Edimun & Demun earbuds from my understanding.

As far as sound, the bass peformance is a respectable response to EQ, with the natural tonality being fairly balanced with a little bit of a bass dominance in the spectrum. It's probably L shaped with what I'm hearing. With the EQ I use to test everything's potential for bass, I own maybe 2 earbuds that resulted in a certainly stronger sub-bass, the Zen 1 & Svara L. It's roughly on par with Hi-z 150S for bass, but it's still early on in hours. Details on this outperform Svara L, and I haven't compared vs Zen 1 yet. It certainly feels more sub-bass focus with no bleed into the vocals. As far as overall quality, details feel quite high for an around 100USD earbud, and the cable is lovely albeit a little short.

I really need to take more time to get to know this better, as it's proving for my preferences to be better suited than the Blue Darth.

 

[mochill]

Blue dart is the king of bass , that's what it says on the website

 

[Saoshyant]

The Blue Darth has reasonable bass, but not impressive.

 

[waynes world]

I don't think either version of the Raven were Monk mods, just the original Crow earbud. The crafter is friends with the maker of the Edimun & Demun earbuds from my understanding.

As far as sound, the bass peformance is a respectable response to EQ, with the natural tonality being fairly balanced with a little bit of a bass dominance in the spectrum. It's probably L shaped with what I'm hearing. With the EQ I use to test everything's potential for bass, I own maybe 2 earbuds that resulted in a certainly stronger sub-bass, the Zen 1 & Svara L. It's roughly on par with Hi-z 150S for bass, but it's still early on in hours. Details on this outperform Svara L, and I haven't compared vs Zen 1 yet. It certainly feels more sub-bass focus with no bleed into the vocals. As far as overall quality, details feel quite high for an around 100USD earbud, and the cable is lovely albeit a little short.

I really need to take more time to get to know this better, as it's proving for my preferences to be better suited than the Blue Darth.

Interested in the Zen 1 comparison. Also considering the price, interested in impressions versus the BS1 official (not sure if you have that one). Thanks!

 

[Makahl]

Guys, kind of off-topic but can someone recommend a Chinese agent to buy on taobao? I'd like to buy some earbuds DIY stuff there but totally clueless to find a trustworthy one.

 

[waynes world]

Guys, kind of off-topic but can someone recommend a Chinese agent to buy on taobao? I'd like to buy some earbuds DIY stuff there but totally clueless to find a trustworthy one.

You're braver than me! Hopefully you can communicate in Chinese. I don't, and I tried to buy something from taobao, and let's just say that (a) there was shipping agent involved that I wasn't expecting and (b) there was a huge language barrier in the way. The transaction didn't go exactly as planned.

 

[chinmie]

Have earbuds gotten so good that traditional open-back headphones are effectively obsolete, at least for those of us afflicted with the earbud disease?

I don't think so. Different physics, different uses. I do prefer earbuds and iems though, because it's more compact and more convenient.

in the 100-300 price range are you confident IEM’s outperform earbuds? In the budget ranges like 1-30 I’m fairly confident earbuds excell over IEM’s from what I’ve heard but my experience with iems is very limited so I cannot be certain.

It's apple and oranges. Nowadays the "earbuds have better value than iems on the same price range" is not valid anymore. To me the KZ ATR is a better pick than the monk, and the Tin Audio T2 has clarity that is special on the 50 dollar range, to me no earbuds in that range can compete. Then again, the vido has a sound that can't be rivalled by any iem at 20 dollars below..

So what i was trying to say is today form superiority is much more complicated.. That it's better to just enjoy everything that works for you

 

[Miknoboes]

There's a BIC Camera and Yodobashi store in Shinjuku. Apparently there's also a smaller e-earphone store there, but I haven't visited that. I might be wrong, though.
I usually go to Akihabara, mainly for the huge Yodobashi there and e-earphone.

There are some smaller audio shops in Akihabara hiding among all the computer related shops or tourist traps.

The Akihabara e-earphone store:
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop-akb

I also like to find Book-off stores. They mostly sell used books, but you might also find used electronic devices. Last time in Japan I bought a Kenwood MediaKeg MP3 player at a Book-off. There are also stores called Hard-off which are specialized at household items and consumer electronics (but those are more rare). Most Book-off have some electronics stuff and you might be able to find something audio related.
Here's a list of stores in the Tokyo area (scroll down):
https://www.bookoff.co.jp/inbound/index.html#shopList



Yuin PK2 is a good advice. However, sub bass isn't very extended and it usually costs around $50.

There's also NiceHCK DIY PK2 which uses the same housing as Yuin uses.
NiceHCK DIY Graphene old version has got good sub bass extension and a slight tendency to be bright (but I'm sensitive) but is also an upgrade from Monk+.
Finally Moondrop Nameless. It is quite neutral with pretty good extension at both ends for the price.

All three can be bought from Ali Express for around $25. Also all are slightly smaller than Monk+...

Thanks for the input! I think I would prefer a touch of musicality than overall neutrality so I think either the Graphenes or the NiceHCK PK2s would be my best bet. Out of curiosity, what are the differences between the Graphenes and the NiceHCK Pk2s? Also, if I get a 2017 version of the Graphenes would they be any different than the old Graphenes that you mentioned? Thanks in advance for the info!