Earbuds Round-Up
Dec 1, 2023 at 3:19 AM Post #73,021 of 75,445
This supplied cable?
yes, from the look, it is a silver plated foil and maybe silver plated copper or copper hybrid. There is a lot of cotton inside the silver foil wire so only the surface material is conducting... funny thing is the wire is even thinner than the internal wire I am using and it's not foil.
 
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Dec 1, 2023 at 3:42 AM Post #73,022 of 75,445
Not sure about a price in your region, but for me it would be Yincrow Calf
I've been following this thread less for the last 1-2 years and didn't notice YIncrow Calf. I liked the information I found about them, I ordered them yesterday for $46. Thank you! If I like Yincrow less, perhaps I’d better find a wizard to install MMCX in LBBS, apparently it will be easier than digging further down the rabbit hole :)
 
Dec 1, 2023 at 3:58 AM Post #73,023 of 75,445
The supplied cable is thinner than my hair and really lacks the punch making it even more hollow sounding.
Source output impedance also matters here (usually much more rather not too thick cable).
 
Dec 1, 2023 at 4:08 AM Post #73,024 of 75,445
Source output impedance also matters here (usually much more rather not too thick cable).
Yea I guess so, but from my cabling DIYing and rolling experience, thin wire like this are not good enough to "excit" the driver, especially buds. IEMs drivers don't response to the cable as much somehow for some reasons I do not know.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17819488
You can see in the above link, cable 9, which is just as thin as the RW3000 cable and most stock cables that I own, suffers from the same problem and other cables don't. So statistically speaking, the thickness of the cable do matter, at least with the constant controlled output impedance of my Fiio M15s. I am sure it would sound different with other sources like a powerful desktop amp.

You can take a look at this lonely DIY cable thread if interested:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-iem-headphone-cables.968497/page-6
 
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Dec 1, 2023 at 5:48 AM Post #73,025 of 75,445
$200 soldering iron is recommended? I had assumed that the $10 ones I was looking at on Amazon would be fine :frowning2:
I'd rather not kill my stuff, but I'm not ready to spend a lot either on what is amounting to dipping my toes in the water.
Oof, I just had the same reaction. Was about to jump in as a result of @mt877’s post and was looking at cheap soldering irons on Amazon…
That's great! I have to add a few more things to your shopping list which will really make things easier during the build. I'll also give you some DIY tips so you'll be successful on your first go at this stuff. Here's a few suggested items which will make your soldering job neater and easier. I'll think of some other things as well. Anyway, I'm here to help you be successful. I'll do an easy to understand soldering tips pdf.

Helping hands with magnifier. The MMCX is very tiny and will get very hot when you try to solder the small wires on (you don't want to burn your fingers). Use the alligator clip to hold the MMCX connector, use the magnifying lens to see what you're soldering. You can get these cheap on Amazon or if you visit Akihabura you might be able to source everything there.
1701406500179.png

Some cheap precision tweezers. This is only an example of some tweezers. I only have straight needle nose and the bent needle nose tweezers, not a complete set. They are pretty cheap. Use them to hold the wires when soldering (burn prevention).
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Cheap solder sucker. You may make a solder bridge when soldering or tinning the MMCX connector center pin and common. The only way you can clean up that mess is to heat up the connector where the solder bridge is at and use the solder sucker to vacuum the hot solder away.
1701407234405.png

A cheap multimeter. Most cheap multimeters will have manual ranges, so you set the volt or resistance (Ohms) range you need to measure. More expensive multimeters have auto-ranging, meaning you set it to what you want to measure and the meter automatically measures and sets the correct range. You could probably get by without a meter, but it's always a good idea to measure the resistance of the speakers before and after you solder the wires to the speaker to be sure A) you didn't receive a defective speaker and B) after soldering the wires that the speaker is still ok. Always expect the resistance to be a little bit higher after the wires are soldered on and the speaker is hot or warm to the touch. After it cools down the resistance should be very close to what you measured before soldering.
1701407657322.png
Alright, I’m in… I’ve been thinking of getting into DIY, but a little intimidated by the idea of tuning, so this seems like a fun way to get into it.
 
Dec 1, 2023 at 5:53 AM Post #73,026 of 75,445
Alright, I’m in… I’ve been thinking of getting into DIY, but a little intimidated by the idea of tuning, so this seems like a fun way to get into it.
LET'S DOOO IIIIIT!!
 
Dec 1, 2023 at 6:11 AM Post #73,027 of 75,445
Oof, I just had the same reaction. Was about to jump in as a result of @mt877’s post and was looking at cheap soldering irons on Amazon…

Alright, I’m in… I’ve been thinking of getting into DIY, but a little intimidated by the idea of tuning, so this seems like a fun way to get into it.
LET'S DOOO IIIIIT!!
That's the spirit!:L3000:
 
Dec 1, 2023 at 6:18 AM Post #73,028 of 75,445
Fiio M15s
It's awful in terms of output impedance (2.3 Ohm for balanced output and 1.4 Ohm for SE).
And yes, I also have got a feeling flathead buds are more sensitive to insufficiently small output impedance rather IEMs.
 
Dec 1, 2023 at 9:46 AM Post #73,031 of 75,445
I guess most DAPs sound awful then.
Not sure about statistics, probably you are right. At any case it is possible to find portable sources with output impedance below, say, 0.5 Ohm.

By the way, I guess source output impedance ignoring is one of the reason (I don't say the main one) high impedance buds are popular (especially when tube amps are in use). Output impedance per se isn't important. Damping factor (Zbud / Zsource) is.
 
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Dec 1, 2023 at 9:54 AM Post #73,032 of 75,445
I received the PureSounds PS100 a few days ago. Decided to unpack it and I just realized the included red foams are rotted.😂 This probably was in stock for ages. I only use Hiegi or K's foams, so there's no problem.
 
Dec 1, 2023 at 9:59 AM Post #73,033 of 75,445
Yea I guess so, but from my cabling DIYing and rolling experience, thin wire like this are not good enough to "excit" the driver, especially buds. IEMs drivers don't response to the cable as much somehow for some reasons I do not know.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17819488
You can see in the above link, cable 9, which is just as thin as the RW3000 cable and most stock cables that I own, suffers from the same problem and other cables don't. So statistically speaking, the thickness of the cable do matter, at least with the constant controlled output impedance of my Fiio M15s. I am sure it would sound different with other sources like a powerful desktop amp.

You can take a look at this lonely DIY cable thread if interested:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-iem-headphone-cables.968497/page-6
Interesting that you find that. I am normally a fan of "thinner is better". As long as the cable impedance is fairly low (though some sets do better with higher impedance cables). I have only one or two 16 core cable, and quite a few 8 core cables, but I like the 4 core cables for earbuds. Just my thoughts on the subject.

The thickness of the cable isn't so much about the voltage, but more the current. If a cable is not sufficiently thick enough (overall) to get the current you need, you will know because it will get hot, or even burn the conductors up in the circuit. As for having enough power to excite the drivers, I think it will more than likely come down to the combination of impedance of your source output, cable, and drivers themselves. As for myself, I use DAPs that have less than 1ohm output impedance. This number is very important to me, as it does indeed change the sound quality (and not for the better) with higher impedance. The rule of thumb is 1/8th. Your output impedance should be not more than 1/8th of the driver impedance (and you should be adding the cable impedance to the source impedance to get that number).

For the best sound (and like they do with speaker systems), you should get as close to 1/8th as you can; not too much under, and not too much over. Also, known as matching the amplifier to the speakers.

BTW! Not trying to insult you if you know all of this already... :)
Oof, I just had the same reaction. Was about to jump in as a result of @mt877’s post and was looking at cheap soldering irons on Amazon…

Alright, I’m in… I’ve been thinking of getting into DIY, but a little intimidated by the idea of tuning, so this seems like a fun way to get into it.
I went with this one, rather than get just a soldering iron. This way I also have the heat gun as well to do some floating, or even "degluing". It might be overkill for buds, but it is pretty much futureproof, and was pretty cheap considering all that you get. I have had this stuff for a few years now, and I have had 0 issues with any of it.

Also, I got this for free when I ordered it. I went ahead and ordered this, and this as well so that I am set up to do any sort of small soldering I need to. I got all this to save a lot of money fixing my Nintendo Switch (tiny PCB ugh). The flux is not strictly necessary, but it helps spread the heat to where you want it without having to burn up everything else around it. And it works great for those times when you run into a job that has non led based solder (like in the olden days) because silver based solder is much harder to get to melting point. I recommend simply getting used to using it with every job because everybody uses silver solder nowadays (for health reasons).

The microscope also is not completely necessary, but if you are old like me and have failing eyesight, or want to also be able to work on PCB boards, it does become necessary. With buds, you can get away without it, but boy is convenient and worth it to me.

All things considered, and with what you get for the cost, this is (to me) a fantastic professional (like) setup without nearly the cost for the actual professional stuff. Again, just my $.02 on the subject. :)
It's awful in terms of output impedance (2.3 Ohm for balanced output and 1.4 Ohm for SE).
And yes, I also have got a feeling flathead buds are more sensitive to insufficiently small output impedance rather IEMs.
That is terribly high for a (contemporary) portable device.

I don't think they are any more or less sensitive to lower impedance than IEMs or headphones (this is shown in the impedance and sensitivity numbers). And having a really low output impedance just means there is a chance to have noise that is human hearable if you have a really sensitive and low impedance set. This is where the manufacturing comes in. If a maker does their work sufficiently for amplification, you will not have much or any noise or jitter with low impedance sets. This is also where stuff like THD and DNR come into play of the device. If these are too low, you will hear noise from a device that has a very low output impedance. I have an all BA set that has an impedance of 9ohms, and my DAP is .2 ouput impedance. I never hear unwanted noise because the amplification circuit has been done right, just as an example.

Others might even use their output impedance as a sort of noise filter to cover up that they used cheap parts, and it would "sound off" otherwise. Like if they used poor oscillation for clocks, thus giving a lot of jitter (for instance). Just some food for thought. :)

Edit: Must be having a brain-fart because I just noticed that you and I are basically saying the same thing... DOH! haha
 
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Dec 1, 2023 at 10:01 AM Post #73,034 of 75,445
I received the PureSounds PS100 a few days ago. Decided to unpack it and I just realized the included red foams are rotted.😂 This probably was in stock for ages. I only use Hiegi or K's foams, so there's no problem.
Congrats on your new shiny! :)

You will have to share more impressions as you get some "ear time" on them?!

Oh WOW! That is crazy... haha
 
Dec 1, 2023 at 10:15 AM Post #73,035 of 75,445
I don't think they are any more or less sensitive to lower impedance
No-no... Saying "sensitive" I mean sufficiently high damping factor (Zbud / (Rcable + Zsource)) is more important for our ears (for music perception) at the flathead buds case in comparison with IEMs case. I don't say about "sensitivity" in terms of dB/w.

You estimate acceptable damping factor as 8 (that is inverse of your 1/8th), I prefer at least 10-15. So, numbers are close. But I haven't noticed any drawback in increasing damping factor above any value. To my taste, the more - the better.
 
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