[Ronion]

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/10...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/10...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

I chose these drivers for me next diy. Any recommendations

I’m with @jeejack. The first driver should be great by all reports. The last driver is great. The second driver is in the 32Pro. You can definitely balance out its tuning and give it a wider soundstage with more advanced modifications, but in my opinion it’s not worth the effort. The driver is ultimately mid grade. It is insanely efficient which comes in handy. I tuned it to my curve and use if for playing VSTs straight from my iPad. Not a lot of buds can really do that and it’s not the best one that can. It was the first one I found that could though.

Anyone know if that first driver is the same 600Ohm that comes in the Yincrow?

 

[o0genesis0o]

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/33...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/10...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

https://m.es.aliexpress.com/item/10...d67a9d2uqz2K&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=gloPc2espMsite

I chose these drivers for me next diy. Any recommendations

You can also have a look at the 64 ohm composite Ti drivers as well. I’m still shocked at how resolving these drivers are. Bass is not much in stock form, but you can tune it a bit. Mine gets louder bass now, enough to enjoy electronic music, but the bass is still not “textured” as FF3. My other complain is that the soundstage does not feel extra wide like other buds, though very deep. In other words, these buds sound like a TOTL IEM than earbuds, if that makes any sense to you.

Believe it or not, graphing has ended my frustration with headphones in general. It enables pinpointing problems painting fairly perfect pictures thereby allowing me to appreciate actual secondary and tertiary characteristics of drivers. The education and experience that came before that point was monumental however. Most people are not determined or enthusiastic enough to do it. Even companies profiting prodigiously peddling pipe dreams—perhaps they have their reasons. Education remains unpopular in spite of the evidence of its benefits.

I also like the (false?) confidence when I have a coupler with me. The only challenge is I have no way to know the ground truth. Still, I have listened to IEMs and looked at their IEC711 graphs, and vice versa, so many times that I have formed certain kind of association between graph and sound (That’s why I always complain about the weirdness of the graphs of those Smabat drivers). I don’t agree with some reviewers and manufacturers (like Moondrop) who think the closer you get to Harman / VSDF / etc., the better “sound quality”, but it’s good to have a target. Otherwise, your tuning can go every where, and then you spend time blacklisting reviewers for saying that your tuning sucks .

Change, listen, measure, confirm / reject hypothesis, form new hypothesis, repeat. I like to think that's how we should go. The faster and more accurate we go through the loop, the better we can learn. That's why I'm enthusiastic about something like Smabat M4. It's certainly faster to learn with M4 than soldering iron and drills

I’m with @jeejack. The first driver should be great by all reports. The last driver is great. The second driver is in the 32Pro. You can definitely balance out its tuning and give it a wider soundstage with more advanced modifications, but in my opinion it’s not worth the effort. The driver is ultimately mid grade. It is insanely efficient which comes in handy. I tuned it to my curve and use if for playing VSTs straight from my iPad. Not a lot of buds can really do that and it’s not the best one that can. It was the first one I found that could though.

Anyone know if that first driver is the same 600Ohm that comes in the Yincrow?

I’m curious about that first driver. Are those cones paper?? Seems like a cheap and cheery platform for testing all kinds of mods.

 

[christianfps]

Another post fanboying on the FF3.

I'm at work and looking for something to listen to in Spotify and decided to throw some R&B to set a chill mood for the day. Song of choice was: Officially Missing You - Midi Mafia Mix by Tamia and others artists.



It's like one of those songs you've listened to a thousand times and you thought you know everything that's in it. A song I've been hearing ever since I was a teen but this time the FF3 just made me smile the whole time I was listening to it. I never heard the taps on the beatbox to be that realistic and the separation of instruments was just amazing. Yes, from an R&B song! And what was I hearing towards at the end? A coin purse? I was in awe and disbelief. Like, wait there's something like that in the song this whole time?

 

[samandhi]

Pls compare 150 TI with Super One

Whether the graph shows it or not, the 150Ti has the most quantity of bass (to my ears). But that is a subjective observance on my part. The SO (or if you follow Smabat naming it would actually be Super Noe lol) is perceived as having less quantity of bass (but only by a small margin IMO), but an overall more balanced sound. All of these observations from me are in the M2s Pro shell.

To my ears, and only from memory (I no longer have the 150Ti driver for the M2s Pro) the ST10S B&G are quite different sounding IIRC (though I believe it was @mt877 that has A/Bed them and thinks they sound the same).

This could all possibly change with the incoming M4 (which also will include the 150Ti and the SO 100 bio drivers.

 

[samandhi]

This is a bit off topic (for now) because I am not using buds for this audition (but I will be listening to it all again with the FF3 RIGHT after I am done with the Focal phones).

Spoiler: Off Topic

This just dropped today. It is a great album (insomuch as the content), but it sounds a bit over produced to my ears. Having said that, I am enjoying it either way on hi-res FLAC from: Mediamonkey 5 (which looks a lot like Roon and can now play DSD) > Asus ROG Strix Scar III > DX300 > Amp12 card > Hartaudio Modular Cable (4.4mm Balanced) > Focal Elegia > Dekoni Custom Lambskin Stelia Pads

Ironically, track number 4 sounds like old Black Sabbath. Maybe not so ironic since this track features Tony Iommi. And given Ozzy's age (73) I can even forgive the (obvious) use of Auto-Tune here... lol

Spoiler: Mediamonkey 5

 

[JAnonymous5150]

This is a bit off topic (for now) because I am not using buds for this audition (but I will be listening to it all again with the FF3 RIGHT after I am done with the Focal phones).

Spoiler: Off Topic

This just dropped today. It is a great album (insomuch as the content), but it sounds a bit over produced to my ears. Having said that, I am enjoying it either way on hi-res FLAC from: Mediamonkey 5 (which looks a lot like Roon and can now play DSD) > Asus ROG Strix Scar III > DX300 > Amp12 card > Hartaudio Modular Cable (4.4mm Balanced) > Focal Elegia > Dekoni Custom Lambskin Stelia Pads

Ironically, track number 4 sounds like old Black Sabbath. Maybe not so ironic since this track features Tony Iommi. And given Ozzy's age (73) I can even forgive the (obvious) use of Auto-Tune here... lol

Spoiler: Mediamonkey 5

I have listened to it a couple times on different headphones and buds mostly for the guest guitarists which are outstanding on this album. I totally agree on the overproduced comment, but I would imagine that some of that is necessitated by Ozzy himself getting up there in age and thus needing more vocal retouching than usual. Unfortunately, I think they got a little heavy handed with the compression probably as a result of trying to make that less noticeable and give everything a more uniform presentation. I could be wrong as to the reasons behind it, but that's my guess based on my studio experience.

Overall though, I found it pretty enjoyable. And it does in fact sound great on the FF3s! For anyone who hasn't listened yet, give it a shot even if you're not normally an Ozzy listener. As I mentioned before the guest guitar work alone is worth the listen. Eric Clapton in particular shows up in fine form with some rock riffage the likes of which I hadn't heard from him in a long time (since he has become almost solely a blues player when going electric).

The drumming by Tommy Clufetos, though laden with compression, has some highlights as well. The guy is a well-known and very talented session drummer who can really pound the skins when he wants. If given the chance, I'd love to hear him drum live on some of these songs so I can hear his work with the natural dynamics and power, but there's enough there even with the compression to have some excitinf moments for sure.

 

[waynes world]

Well yeah, but when I spent all my time tryin' to hang with the rockstars I ended up strung out for over a decade...

Plus, me hanging with those guys all the time would be like me only hanging out with coworkers after getting off of work. And as much as I hate to break it to you, but you guys exist in my cellphone for the most part so I can hang out with you guys whenever. For example, right now I am bored on a conference call. Maybe I should go all rockstar, smash the phone, and air drum a killer solo while I run out of the studio! Or not...

Yeah, my bandmates and I got the "get clean or get gone" ultimatum from our last record label so we all got clean around the same time. Part of staying clean means staying away from a lot of the people I used to kick it with. The upside is I'm more productive in writing music than ever before l, my drumming has gone to a whole new level because I practice so much more (gotta get that junkie energy out lol), and ofc I get to listen to a lot of music. Oh yeah, and I also remember most of what I do nowadays lol!

To bring this back on topic, I honestly wouldn't have rediscovered or cared about earbuds if I hadn't cleaned up so that's definitely a win-win in my book

I'm not gonna lie, some of my most creative stuff came to me while under the influence and a lot of what I do now I wouldn't be doing if it wasn't for those times. However, with the way my using was going I would probably be a really creative dead drummer. I still have days where I'd love to be smacked out of my skull.

More recently I have found that the creative door that substances opened didn't shut when I quit using. Also, it should be noted that I am currently undergoing psilocybin/psilocin and MDMA/MDA based therapy for my PTSD and I still drink on occasion as well so I'm not a straight-edge no substances kinda guy though I fully respect those that are. I think its healthy to recognize how powerful psychoactive substances are and that their power isn't good or bad, it's how the substance is used that determines whether it's ultimate effects on your life are good or bad. As with most things it just comes down to balance and intent. There are just some substances that I cannot use in a healthy, balanced, and moderate fashion and I'm okay with that...most of the time anyways lol!

That's my last word on the addiction stuff though. It's not nearly as fun to talk about as earbuds and music.

Since you mentioned the FF3s, give Animals As Leaders album entitled Parrhesia a listen with the FF3s. It's too good to be missed!

Who the heck are you??? One hell of a funny and interesting guy, that's who!

The only psilocybin based therapy I did was when I was a teenager after finding a particularly productive farmer's field. Let's just say that the therapy was not quite a successful as I wanted it to be lol

Anyway, you are very entertaining and informative, so thanks for contributing!

On an earbud related note, here's a very positive (surprise surprise) review of the FF3 by @twister6:
https://twister6.com/2022/09/09/fiio-ff3/2/

My set has finally been shipped after being delayed due to covid lockdown. They can't get here quick enough - I know I'm going to love them.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I have listened to it a couple times on different headphones and buds mostly for the guest guitarists which are outstanding on this album. I totally agree on the overproduced comment, but I would imagine that some of that is necessitated by Ozzy himself getting up there in age and thus needing more vocal retouching than usual. Unfortunately, I think they got a little heavy handed with the compression probably as a result of trying to make that less noticeable and give everything a more uniform presentation. I could be wrong as to the reasons behind it, but that's my guess based on my studio experience.

Overall though, I found it pretty enjoyable. And it does in fact sound great on the FF3s! For anyone who hasn't listened yet, give it a shot even if you're not normally an Ozzy listener. As I mentioned before the guest guitar work alone is worth the listen. Eric Clapton in particular shows up in fine form with some rock riffage the likes of which I hadn't heard from him in a long time (since he has become almost solely a blues player when going electric).

The drumming by Tommy Clufetos, though laden with compression, has some highlights as well. The guy is a well-known and very talented session drummer who can really pound the skins when he wants. If given the chance, I'd love to hear him drum live on some of these songs so I can hear his work with the natural dynamics and power, but there's enough there even with the compression to have some excitinf moments for sure.

So cool to hear professional musicians talking about music! I like hearing violinists gushing over legendary performances, but this is the first time I see musicians talking about mixing and modern recordings.

 

[baskingshark]

So cool to hear professional musicians talking about music! I like hearing violinists gushing over legendary performances, but this is the first time I see musicians talking about mixing and modern recordings.

+1

I realize nowadays most modern day singers and musicians "cheat" when they do performances/recordings, compared to the old days. Kinda disappointing.

Many singers use auto-tune unreservedly to hit the correct notes, and even back-end, their voices are remastered to sound perfect or even to hit higher ranges than their legit voices. Musician recordings are also mastered back end (as long as you don't play too out of time/key) and the computers can make notes be hit in perfect timing.

Ah, then you see some of these pop stars sing in live performances without their crutch and most of them sing flat or out of time LOL. Some even have to sing many keys lower than the album recordings, simply cause they can't actually reach those notes without technology intervening.

 

[o0genesis0o]

+1

I realize nowadays most modern day singers and musicians "cheat" when they do performances/recordings, compared to the old days. Kinda disappointing.

Many singers use auto-tune unreservedly to hit the correct notes, and even back-end, their voices are remastered to sound perfect or even to hit higher ranges than their legit voices. Musician recordings are also mastered back end (as long as you don't play too out of time/key) and the computers can make notes be hit in perfect timing.

Ah, then you see some of these pop stars sing in live performances without their crutch and most of them sing flat or out of time LOL. Some even have to sing many keys lower than the album recordings, simply cause they can't actually reach those notes without technology intervening.

Speaking of which, have you seen the latest live recording of the guy who sings Somebody I used to know on YouTube? He sounds way better comparing to the original recording years ago (listening with my DIY earbuds with 64 ohm Ti driver, of course... alright, I'll see myself out ). I also think it's ironic that Ed Sheeran sounds better live than in his latest album. The one who mixes Shiver for that album needs to get their ears checked.

 

[ttorbic]

Saw this at a cafe restroom - thought folks here would appreciate! I love "Piano Party" lolll

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Who the heck are you??? One hell of a funny and interesting guy, that's who!

The only psilocybin based therapy I did was when I was a teenager after finding a particularly productive farmer's field. Let's just say that the therapy was not quite a successful as I wanted it to be lol

Anyway, you are very entertaining and informative, so thanks for contributing!

On an earbud related note, here's a very positive (surprise surprise) review of the FF3 by @twister6:
https://twister6.com/2022/09/09/fiio-ff3/2/

My set has finally been shipped after being delayed due to covid lockdown. They can't get here quick enough - I know I'm going to love them.

Thank you very kindly! I'm glad you got a kick out of it and I'm always happy to contribute. And trust me knowing who I am isn't nearly as interesting as you might think. I mean, I like to think I'm cool and all that, but I'm not some rockstar laying low. I promise! My band is what you might call moderately successful in the grand scheme of things, but I would be shocked if anyone here knew me by name or face. A few folks who like and follow indie rock have probably heard of the band I'm in, but we're nowhere near successful enough for that to be guaranteed.

You want a funny story, I'll give you one. Being a drummer in a recently moderately successful band hasn't made me a recognizable figure. I occasionally do drum clinics for a couple companies I have endorsement deals with and some hardcore drummers know who I am, but until the last couple years more of them knew me because of a band I filled in on tour with or a couple of drum solo videos that got me some recognition a few years ago.

So with that in mind, I was walking around downtown in this city we played a couple months ago looking for some late night grub. I spot a local hamburger drive in kinda place and I get in line. I'm standing there looking up at the menu when I catch a snippet of conversation going on behind and to the side of me.

Guy 1: Dude, no way. It's not him. Now shut the F up before you creep this dude out.

Girl: I don't know, I think it's him. I'm gonna google him.

*I start doing a super casual look around to see if I can figure out who they're talking about*

Guy 2: It's def (yes he said def lol) him. I don't need to see pics. I saw their Fing show!

*Right as I realize it's me they're talking about Guy 2 talks to me*

I tried to be all rockstar cool because the dude knew my name and as a fellow drummer he even knew what kit I use and was pretty stoked to see me. Inside I was all happy and stuff because this was legitimately the first time that I have ever been singled out on the street. I was definitely glad it was pretty dark even by the window because I'm not positive I wasn't blushing or something.

I ended up eating some take out with some drunk locals one of whom had actually been to my band's show the night before. I signed some autographs and gave them some contact info for how to score free tickets for the mid week show we had coming up and some shirts and stuff for making my night by recognizing me.

I have been recognized at events where people knew I was attending or with my band, but never on the street by myself before. Does that give you a better idea of the scale of non-rockstardom we're dealing with here lol?!?!

 

[Ronion]

I also like the (false?) confidence when I have a coupler with me. The only challenge is I have no way to know the ground truth. Still, I have listened to IEMs and looked at their IEC711 graphs, and vice versa, so many times that I have formed certain kind of association between graph and sound (That’s why I always complain about the weirdness of the graphs of those Smabat drivers). I don’t agree with some reviewers and manufacturers (like Moondrop) who think the closer you get to Harman / VSDF / etc., the better “sound quality”, but it’s good to have a target. Otherwise, your tuning can go every where, and then you spend time blacklisting reviewers for saying that your tuning sucks .

Change, listen, measure, confirm / reject hypothesis, form new hypothesis, repeat. I like to think that's how we should go. The faster and more accurate we go through the loop, the better we can learn. That's why I'm enthusiastic about something like Smabat M4. It's certainly faster to learn with M4 than soldering iron and drills



I’m curious about that first driver. Are those cones paper?? Seems like a cheap and cheery platform for testing all kinds of mods.

the SMABAT graphs are crazy weird. I’m not even sure how they are screwing it up so bad…. This is why they have so much trouble tuning and why FiiO doesn’t.

The Harman and Moondrop targets don’t really make a lot of sense. You’ve seen the way the graphs change from a fairly flat in room response, which by Harman’s own data should be too bright (It’s not, but that’s a whole other can of worms). If you reverse extrapolate their headphone graph, there’s no way you come up their room response graph. The whole myth is so…. Interesting. It takes some incredible mental gymnastics to justify their final curve. It’s so bad, even Lars Ulrich knows it (Joke). The feature of their graph that is definitely missing is called the Head Shadow. Here’s some more scholarly supporting documents. Look at the upper left and the upper right photos in this first document. They are not from a stereo source and thus do not contain data from the head shadow.

those last 2 pictures illustrate how the head shadow works. The resultant graphs from a stereo source will look like this taken from my ear and living room:

Both ears will hear low end from both speakers and how they interact with the room. The head is roughly 1,500Hz wide. So the high frequency sound won’t be equal on both sides: the left ear will hear more treble from the left speaker than the right speaker and the right ear will hear more treble from the right speaker than the left speaker. You notice my in room graph is fairly flat, but my in ear graph has the same bass as the room, then the head shadow kicks in, then the pinna gain elevates it (the ear canal resonance is missing from the graph due to mic position), then the notch that occurs d/t the 30 degree speaker placement/standard stereo triangle.

Harman’s in room graph looks like this:

Yet their headphone curve looks like this:

It just doesn’t make a lot of sense.

The only reason I wouldn’t agree with you about learning faster from SMABAT’s bud is that their tuning is so unusual and their shell so unconventional that you’d be better off with the MX500 for both speed and versatility.

The biggest issue you’ll encounter is calibrating your rig…. Without going through the madness I did, I’m just not sure how else it could be possible. The best way may be to see how the FiiO graphs and attempt to approximate it—boosting the upper end until is seems neutral to you…. It’s not the most scientific, but you can see that even my crazy OCD version has a lot of issues. I can improve it, but I’m not sure it’s necessary. There’s just no standard mixing and mastering room and thus no playback system can achieve a technical perfection. IOW, that FiiO method should be essentially as good as you would ever need.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

+1

I realize nowadays most modern day singers and musicians "cheat" when they do performances/recordings, compared to the old days. Kinda disappointing.

Many singers use auto-tune unreservedly to hit the correct notes, and even back-end, their voices are remastered to sound perfect or even to hit higher ranges than their legit voices. Musician recordings are also mastered back end (as long as you don't play too out of time/key) and the computers can make notes be hit in perfect timing.

Ah, then you see some of these pop stars sing in live performances without their crutch and most of them sing flat or out of time LOL. Some even have to sing many keys lower than the album recordings, simply cause they can't actually reach those notes without technology intervening.

I actually really admire our lead singer because of how little he lets producers touch up his vocals. Our band has always been about live performances being the best way to connect with fans/listeners and if your live performance sucks because you can't actually sing or play without the crutches of auto-tune and track alignment you're just doing a disservice to your fans and to music in general. It's hard to have pride in something you can't or didn't actually do.

When you're recording there are some things you have to do to produce a viable record involving compression, dynamic control, and other mastering and editing techniques that are to be expected. However, it is definitely possible to keep that stuff basic and your performance in the studio and live as congruent as possible. That's what many of the best bands strive for and you're actually starting to see more and more of that coming back in certain rock based genres in particular.

For indie rock stuff, if you ever go see The Black Keys or Kings of Leon or Interpol and other really top tier bands live it's immediately clear that these guys are legit musicians and they are every bit as good as their records make them sound. It's real insult amongst professional musicians and bands if you or your band are known for being studio puppets.

Anyways, it's always refreshing when I see listeners who notice stuff like that because it reassures musicians/artists/bands who put in the extra blood, sweat, and tears so to speak to be outstanding in and out of the studio rather than relying on studio tricks that their effort is appreciated and will pay off.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Saw this at a cafe restroom - thought folks here would appreciate! I love "Piano Party" lolll

That's classic! I love the short shorts jumpsuit. So 70s chic!