Grado modders go Magnum
Nov 12, 2015 at 3:34 AM Post #3,677 of 4,994
 
  Schiit! I just noticed there is no hole for the cable!?

i know nothing about this sort of stuff worms, but i went ahead and e-mailed rhydon with both my question regarding preference for raw material,
as well as yours about the hole for the cable.

Thanks!
 
I just emailed him also with the heads up, in the mean time I guess I'll drill a hole if I have to!
tongue.gif

 
I went with the hard plastic, btw. Also, I found a coupon code for free shipping, so that knocked down about $5 from the price!
wink.gif
 
 
Nov 12, 2015 at 4:13 AM Post #3,678 of 4,994
  Lotsa goodies arrived....
 
The Alessandro MS1's I ordered on 11/5 to use as donor headphones were received 11/9.  They come in a Grado box, packaging with a separate label affixed which identifies it as an Alessandro MS1, and include a 1/4 to 1/8 adapter. Before I ordered, I verified with Alessandro that these MS1 incorporated the latest e-series features. I had planned to use the headband, gimbals, and cord from these.  However, the cord has a flange on it which interferes with my iPhone case.   So at this point, I think I will just detach the cup/driver/cord from the headband/gimbal assembly and make them available to raise money for veterans as discussed earlier.  These MS1 headphones, even without break in are impressive.  I listened for about two hours last night, comparing them with a pair of Audio Technica ATH-R70X as I went.  These are good enough that I think I may well keep one pair of these stock just as a reference pair and for portable use.  The down side of these is they reminded me of how good the Grado based designs are, and made me all the more impatient to get the V6's up and running.
 
On 11/5 I ordered Cocobolo cups from Yew Woodworks. These shipped the morning after my order was placed the night before, within 24 hrs. These were received 11/9. They exceeded all my expectations. The Cocobolo wood is absolutely beautiful. Fit, finish, and workmanship is superb. The grille on the back of the cup has an elegant finished look to it. I was pleasantly surprised to see that Clinton Eash included comfort ear pads with the cups. Also included is a small roll of foam tape for sealing and seating the driver in the cup, and small cable ties to use as strain-reliefs on the cord, very nice touches. Tapping on the cup, they have a significantly higher resonance than the plastic Grado cups. I can highly recommend this option to others due to the excellent workmanship, quick response, and attention to detail.  
 
On 11/5 I ordered Grado L-Cush pads, since the V6 drivers were designed to be used with these pads. These arrived via Amazon 11/9.
 
Since I decided to keep the cord on the Alessandro drivers, once I get a cable, I'll be good to go.  I'm still trying to decide whether to buy from someone else or build. 

 
that's unfortunate Grado cables don't fit smartphone cases. I trimmed one of my adapters to fit:
 

 
when that doesn't work, it's time to work on the case!
biggrin.gif

 

 
tongue.gif

 
Also, keep in mind that reterminating to an aftermarket 1/8" jack that'll fit your case should be fairly easy also. I'm working on my V4 Magnums right now and just made this cable from my leftover Grado extension cable. I want to get a nice 1/4" Viablue or something similar jack, but all I had on hand at the moment was a 1/8" rean jack, so that'll have to do for now!

 
 
 
 
 

 
Nov 12, 2015 at 5:20 AM Post #3,679 of 4,994
  do we know for a fact that stainless steel is going to be the ideal material?
i'll totally go for it right this second if we know that's the case.

i don't know if there is an ideal material
i'm really enjoying the v6 in aluminum
still gonna try the 3-d cup in plastinc
and probably a wooden cup before i'm done
sure sounds good in aluminum....  i'm gonna need another set of drivers
 
Nov 12, 2015 at 8:54 AM Post #3,680 of 4,994
  Schiit! I just noticed there is no hole for the cable!?


Oh dear...you might have to get out your drill...
 
I also can't see what the driver seat is going to look like. Is there one?
 
Nov 12, 2015 at 8:59 AM Post #3,681 of 4,994
Yes, the file can be directly uploaded to shapeways.
 
Recommend material lists are in the works. For now experimentation is recommended. A safe one to start with would be Acrylic detail plastic.
 
No hole for the cord- this is intentional. Any holes will violate the operating principle of the C6. 
 
We decided to let DIY’ers come up with other solutions. We run the cord straight out of the cup without issues. To make things easier you can strip some of the extra outer insulation from headphone cables to make them more compliant/flexible and zip tie the thin inner wires to one of the Hex struts.

 
just heard back from rhydon.
until symphones releases a recommended material list, if anyone else has some thoughts on material of choice, please drop a line.
i'm rather lost as to what might sound good. perhaps ill just end up going with acrylic detail plastic? shrug.
 
damn i desperately want to purchase this right now, but i'd like to hear some input first lol.
also fleas, it looks like there is a seat for the driver. when i manipulate the 3d model in shapeways, i think i see what is bit of a groove for it to fit. 
 
Nov 12, 2015 at 9:04 AM Post #3,682 of 4,994
   
just heard back from rhydon.
until symphones releases a recommended material list, if anyone else has some thoughts on material of choice, please drop a line.
i'm rather lost as to what might sound good. perhaps ill just end up going with acrylic detail plastic? shrug.

 
Whoa...that cable solution is intense...running it straight out of the grill...
 
Nov 12, 2015 at 12:07 PM Post #3,683 of 4,994
Just ordered one pair of the C6 in Black Strong and Flexible (nylon), and one pair in Polished Metallic Plastic (alumide).  
 
My experience with shapeways couldn't have been better:.  
Basically you download the file from the Symphones site to your PC.  
Then you go to shapeways and sign up for an account. Only a username and password is required.  You can opt in or out of mailings.  
Once there you click on "Make" on the top menu bar.  
You then will be prompted to upload the drawing from your PC.
At this point you can explore the various materials, and pricing is given specifically for the cup in each material.  
You can drill down using "View 3DTools" for descriptions of each material, characteristics, potential advantages and disadvantages, and production limitations for each material.
Once you decide, you can just add it to your cart and checkout.  Paypal is a payment option. I used WELCOME15 as a promo code and got about $5 off. 
 
Even if you are not ready to buy, you can still create an account and explore options and cost.  You can do this without creating an account, however the prices specific to the cup will not be listed, rather generic cost data.
 
For me personally, the shapeways site is one of the most user-friendly, navigable, and intuitive websites I have experienced.  Very straight forward, and a great pairing for Symphone's similarly straight-forward and elegant website design.  So much so, that I will be investigating the site designer for my own business.
 
I chose the Strong and Flexible material, which is nylon, for its durability and resilience.  
 
I also chose the Polished Metallic Plastic, which is nylon mixed with metallic particles, for its visual aesthetic which I like, although the description indicated it is slightly more brittle than the Strong and Flexible. So I hedged my bet in the event the Metallic Plastic is not durable.  Also, from an acoustic standpoint I wondered if the presence of the metallic particles in the nylon might affect the resonance versus the nylon alone.  Metallic or mineral particles are sometimes imbedded in plastic speaker cones to change the resonance or structural nature. 
 
I considered the stainless option but had concerns about whether the material might "ring" as metals tend to do since the walls are very thin. Another factor was a relatively higher weight, though that may in actuality be negligible.  The material, per the description on the site is a blend of stainless and bronze.  Per the site, "This material is 3D printed 420 Stainless Steel infused with bronze, and has a final composition of approximately 60% steel and 40% bronze. To build steel models, special 3D printers deposit small drops of glue onto layers of stainless steel powder, one layer at a time, until the print is complete. We carefully remove these models from the printer. At this stage of the process, the objects are very fragile, similar to wet sand. The models then go through an infusion process that replaces the glue with bronze, creating a full metal product. Models are then processed to achieve your desired finish, sprayed with a sealant, and shipped to you." Wow, metallurgy is certainly changing.  Perhaps the end result might actually resemble cast metal and be less prone to ringing.
 
Many of the finest flutes are made from silver, and this is one of the listed options.  The concept of silver cups and their affect on the audio signature is an intriguing, though very expensive, possibility.
 
As far as the absence of the hole, I can understand strategically why this approach was taken.  Since this is primarily a DIY offering there would likely be variation in the diameter of the cord used, and some may even install jacks or other connectors for cord interchangeability.  So whatever hole may have been provided might not have been the right size for a given builder. I am intrigued by Rhydons statement, "Any holes will violate the operating principle of the C6" and look forward to the further information and discussion to be released in a few days that will develop this concept.
 
One thing apparent in the C6 design is that since the V6 driver and C6 cup are developed by the same designer, the driver should fit very flush in the cup.  Tweeter design in speakers very deliberately addresses reflective energy and its affect on frequency response.  Care in flush mounting the tweeter (driver in this case) can make a significant difference in response, especially at higher wavelengths that correspond to the distance from the driver to adjacent surfaces and edges.  With the C6 design, the cup can effectively become an extension of the V6 driver housing itself.  In turn, the V6 was designed for a specific pad, so design of both the cup and driver with a specific pad offers opportunity to juggle all these variables to achieve a synergistic result.
 
I love the look of the honeycomb grille, and it is certainly open and will introduce little if any reflection. Also a honeycomb structure is inherently stronger.  
 
I look forward to feedback from the first to receive these, and for the additional information on the cups design which is forthcoming.
 
Nov 12, 2015 at 5:02 PM Post #3,684 of 4,994
 
Schiit! I just noticed there is no hole for the cable!?



Oh dear...you might have to get out your drill...

I also can't see what the driver seat is going to look like. Is there one?
I thought I saw one, but not sure. I'll have to wait and see when I get a chance to check it out on my laptop.
 
Nov 12, 2015 at 6:32 PM Post #3,685 of 4,994
  Just ordered one pair of the C6 in Black Strong and Flexible (nylon), and one pair in Polished Metallic Plastic (alumide).  
 
My experience with shapeways couldn't have been better:.  
Basically you download the file from the Symphones site to your PC.  
Then you go to shapeways and sign up for an account. Only a username and password is required.  You can opt in or out of mailings.  
Once there you click on "Make" on the top menu bar.  
You then will be prompted to upload the drawing from your PC.
At this point you can explore the various materials, and pricing is given specifically for the cup in each material.  
You can drill down using "View 3DTools" for descriptions of each material, characteristics, potential advantages and disadvantages, and production limitations for each material.
Once you decide, you can just add it to your cart and checkout.  Paypal is a payment option. I used WELCOME15 as a promo code and got about $5 off. 
 
Even if you are not ready to buy, you can still create an account and explore options and cost.  You can do this without creating an account, however the prices specific to the cup will not be listed, rather generic cost data.
 
For me personally, the shapeways site is one of the most user-friendly, navigable, and intuitive websites I have experienced.  Very straight forward, and a great pairing for Symphone's similarly straight-forward and elegant website design.  So much so, that I will be investigating the site designer for my own business.
 
I chose the Strong and Flexible material, which is nylon, for its durability and resilience.  
 
I also chose the Polished Metallic Plastic, which is nylon mixed with metallic particles, for its visual aesthetic which I like, although the description indicated it is slightly more brittle than the Strong and Flexible. So I hedged my bet in the event the Metallic Plastic is not durable.  Also, from an acoustic standpoint I wondered if the presence of the metallic particles in the nylon might affect the resonance versus the nylon alone.  Metallic or mineral particles are sometimes imbedded in plastic speaker cones to change the resonance or structural nature. 
 
I considered the stainless option but had concerns about whether the material might "ring" as metals tend to do since the walls are very thin. Another factor was a relatively higher weight, though that may in actuality be negligible.  The material, per the description on the site is a blend of stainless and bronze.  Per the site, "This material is 3D printed 420 Stainless Steel infused with bronze, and has a final composition of approximately 60% steel and 40% bronze. To build steel models, special 3D printers deposit small drops of glue onto layers of stainless steel powder, one layer at a time, until the print is complete. We carefully remove these models from the printer. At this stage of the process, the objects are very fragile, similar to wet sand. The models then go through an infusion process that replaces the glue with bronze, creating a full metal product. Models are then processed to achieve your desired finish, sprayed with a sealant, and shipped to you." Wow, metallurgy is certainly changing.  Perhaps the end result might actually resemble cast metal and be less prone to ringing.
 
Many of the finest flutes are made from silver, and this is one of the listed options.  The concept of silver cups and their affect on the audio signature is an intriguing, though very expensive, possibility.
 
As far as the absence of the hole, I can understand strategically why this approach was taken.  Since this is primarily a DIY offering there would likely be variation in the diameter of the cord used, and some may even install jacks or other connectors for cord interchangeability.  So whatever hole may have been provided might not have been the right size for a given builder. I am intrigued by Rhydons statement, "Any holes will violate the operating principle of the C6" and look forward to the further information and discussion to be released in a few days that will develop this concept.
 
One thing apparent in the C6 design is that since the V6 driver and C6 cup are developed by the same designer, the driver should fit very flush in the cup.  Tweeter design in speakers very deliberately addresses reflective energy and its affect on frequency response.  Care in flush mounting the tweeter (driver in this case) can make a significant difference in response, especially at higher wavelengths that correspond to the distance from the driver to adjacent surfaces and edges.  With the C6 design, the cup can effectively become an extension of the V6 driver housing itself.  In turn, the V6 was designed for a specific pad, so design of both the cup and driver with a specific pad offers opportunity to juggle all these variables to achieve a synergistic result.
 
I love the look of the honeycomb grille, and it is certainly open and will introduce little if any reflection. Also a honeycomb structure is inherently stronger.  
 
I look forward to feedback from the first to receive these, and for the additional information on the cups design which is forthcoming.

another take from the individual i've been corresponding with to carry out the labor for me:

 
seems like no hole will make awkward looking cord attachment and not very secure. if you get a standard sheathed turbulent cable the sheathing is stiffer so its not going to bend @ 90* as it will stick out not hang down.
i'd recommend having just braided wires no sheath but it still boggles me why they think this is a sensible way of doing things. never seen anything this unthought out before
 

again being completely, somewhat pleasingly, lost at this point, i'm thinking between the black or transparent acrylic and the stainless steel.
 
Nov 12, 2015 at 7:19 PM Post #3,686 of 4,994
  another take from the individual i've been corresponding with to carry out the labor for me:

 
again being completely, somewhat pleasingly, lost at this point, i'm thinking between the black or transparent acrylic and the stainless steel.


I noticed the file has now been pulled from Rhydon's site...there's a note stating "C6 will be back soon!"
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 10:40 AM Post #3,687 of 4,994
Hey everyone, I've been following this thread for some time and doing as much research as I can on the subject. I'm considering jumping into modding, eventually working my way to building a Grado/Magnum. 
 
Are there any guides that suggest how to get started or get something to get my feet wet? I'm certainly going to take it slow and not start off by chopping up an RS1, but I've got a few pairs of Koss K75s around along with some other lower end headphones that I'd be fine with messing up.
 
One specific skill I'd like to learn is recabling. I'm a weak 'solderer' at best, but it's something I'd like to learn to do well and be able to apply to this hobby. I've got a few cables I'd like to replace due to wear and it'd be nice replacing cables for increased functionality (shorter, different termination, etc). Is this a difficult or time consuming process? 
 
If you were to suggest a 'starter project' for someone that knows very little about doing things such as this, what would that be? 
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 11:48 AM Post #3,688 of 4,994
 


I noticed the file has now been pulled from Rhydon's site...there's a note stating "C6 will be back soon!"

I received this email from Rhydon this morning...

"Hi John,

i’ve been keeping up to date on the forum’s.

The cable issue seems to be of concern. We are going to upload a new design which addresses this. In the mean time i suggest holding your current shapeways order. The new version should is being worked on, it should be up by Monday. The site will be updated to reflect everything.

In the future we’re going to mark the C1 as a Beta program, at least until we can confirm all materials. 

We're planing on making a seller space on shapeways where customers can simply order the part direct rather then downloading/creating account, etc. This should simplify and speed the whole process for everyone.

Thanks for your understanding in this process.

Here if you have any concerns/questions.

Rhydon"

I cancelled my order with shapeways, and will reorder to incorporate the revisions.  

As a personal observation, its interesting to me that the flexibility and rapid adaptability of the 3D printing approach allows direct interactivity with the knowledge base here in the Head-Fi community. I like the idea of a beta release of the drawing, which allows examination of the design and constructive input, before production.  Further, the approach allows further refinement of the design with release of later versions, or separate versions if called for. This paradigm sees the product as evolutionary, rather than an end result.  Its exciting to me to be part of the interactive development of a product as part of the community here, that leverages the game-changing advantages of 3D printing design and manufacturing.  Kudos to Rhydon for his vision and initiative in seeing the opportunity to take a different approach.
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 1:44 PM Post #3,689 of 4,994
  I received this email from Rhydon this morning...
 
"Hi John,
 
i’ve been keeping up to date on the forum’s.
 
The cable issue seems to be of concern. We are going to upload a new design which addresses this. In the mean time i suggest holding your current shapeways order. The new version should is being worked on, it should be up by Monday. The site will be updated to reflect everything.
 
In the future we’re going to mark the C1 as a Beta program, at least until we can confirm all materials. 
 
We're planing on making a seller space on shapeways where customers can simply order the part direct rather then downloading/creating account, etc. This should simplify and speed the whole process for everyone.
 
Thanks for your understanding in this process.
 
Here if you have any concerns/questions.
 
Rhydon"
 
I cancelled my order with shapeways, and will reorder to incorporate the revisions.  
 
As a personal observation, its interesting to me that the flexibility and rapid adaptability of the 3D printing approach allows direct interactivity with the knowledge base here in the Head-Fi community. I like the idea of a beta release of the drawing, which allows examination of the design and constructive input, before production.  Further, the approach allow further refinement of the design with release of later versions, or separate versions if called for. This paradigm see the product is as evolutionary, rather than an end result.  Its exciting to me to be part of the interactive development of a product as part of the community here, that leverages the game-changing advantages of 3D printing design and manufacturing.  Kudos to Rhydon for his vision and initiative in seeing the opportunity to take a different approach.


I figured the cable thing might have triggered the pull-down and indicated an impending re-design. I really love how Head-Fi and new manufacturing facilitate this kind of communication and agility in design and release. 
 
Nov 13, 2015 at 4:12 PM Post #3,690 of 4,994
when custom ordering my cable i asked for the cable to be 4' in length instead of 6' but i did so presuming that that 4' began at the bottom of the Y split (meaning 4' of cable + the Y split) was i wrong?
 
because i received the cable today and it is 4" total meaning it's 3' in length where the cable is straight and another foot where it splits into the left and right hand Y part of the cable that goes to the drivers.
 
plus the Y part is too short for me as i have a fat head and neck. when i lay the custom cables Y section flush with my Grado SR60i cable the custom cables split Y section doesn't (at the wire tips) even reach the bottom of the Grado cups where cable port hole is.
 
so i've contacted the seller and asked him what it will cost to add another 2-3 inches to the Y section but i also want the straight section a foot longer.
if its too much extra i guess i'll just order another cable to the dimensions i wanted originally and learn a not too expensive (but not too cheap) lesson.
frown.gif
 
 
Edit: just heard back from the seller and he was very nice about it,  his reply was "Ok. Sorry, I usually make the Y at 12 inches when I prepare the cable. So you would like closer to 15 inches instead?" to which i replied that i would and so I'll mail them back to him tomorrow and asked him to let me know of any extra fees for shipping/parts or labor,he didn't mention it in his reply,but if so i don't mind. its worth it to me to have a cord i am more comfortable with especially for my first custom build. I'll be ordering a second cable from in the next month and that time i'll know what to ask for . live and learn
wink.gif
 
 

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