[fooltoque]

As Fran's buds have come up in the thread, again, I thought I may as well share my most recent matchup. FranQL Caelum /w Clan Audio 'Caelum' SPC cable. Caelum is a very exciting earbud and Clan Audio managed to match it up with an equally exciting looking cable.

Did you get a custom 'Gunslinger' cable for your Caelums? That's awesome

 

[ian91]

Did you get a custom 'Gunslinger' cable for your Caelums? That's awesome

Yeah! The cable maker puts those on cables made for Frans buds as a homage.

 

[trevdawg94]

HMMM... I got a reply from AVCCK about my enquiry for the 150Ω Yinmans:

[spoiler]
[ATTACH=full]4728305[/ATTACH]
[/spoiler]

That's a lot more promising than any of the messages I've sent them, maybe I need to mention Green Bull in my message?

So, here is the full chat that went on. When they couldn't scam me into buying the 32Ω set, they completely quit talking to me, and won't answer any more questions. If there were some other place to get the Yinman buds, I would tell people to NEVER buy anything from this site. I was actually going to buy the 32Ω version, but they were so deceptive/shady about the 150Ω version that I decided I would not patronize their store anymore.

In the US, this is a fairly serious crime called "bait & switch". It is very clever the way they talk around your questions. At first they didn't completely lie, but let you draw your own conclusion, and those not so much in the know would have gotten bamboozled (if they really wanted the 150Ω version). This seems well rehearsed, and is most likely why they have the correct picture as well as the wrong pictures on the store.

Since there is no way to copy the entire chat session as is, I copied the words to Notepad, and the pictures I used Snipping tool, and then replaced them where they were in the chat session. Sorry so long; I just thought some might be interested in seeing this.

Spoiler

19:00

Hello. I am looking for the new Yinman 150ohm (Green Bull) earbud. Do you have them in stock?
Read
22:01

Yes, orders can be placed and shipped to you first[Smile]
Yes
Can place an order
Priority delivery to you
Alibaba Translation
22:54

I see three listings for them. Which is the correct price please, and could you include a photo of the 150Ω ones?
Read
23:03

Production Information

YINMAN 150 ohm hifi High Impedance In Ear Earphone 150ohm Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs HIFI Earbud Earphone Limite
US $41.50
23:09

Is there an option for 4.4mm connector?
Read



Hello only 600 euros with 4.4 plugs
Hello.
Only 600 euros.
4.4 plug
Alibaba Translation

I meant for the 150Ω. Those are the 600Ω ones and I already have them.
Read

Only 3.5 plugs for 150 ohms
3.5 plug only
150 Euros
Alibaba Translation

I will purchase the 150Ω ones for $41.50. They aren't the 32Ω version right?

Can you take my order from here? the other three sites all have different pictures and prices.
Read
Yesterday 23:29

Yes, priority will be given to you for shipping[Smile]
Yes
Priority delivery to you
Alibaba Translation

OK! I will order the 150Ω version for $41.50. I am ready to order good sir.
Read
Yesterday 23:49

OK[Smile]
OK[Smile]
Alibaba Translation

How does this work? You can take my order right from here in chat?
Read

Yes, buy it directly
Yes
Direct g-mai
Alibaba Translation

What do you need from me then?
Read
00:05


Production Information

YINMAN 150 ohm hifi High Impedance In Ear Earphone 150ohm Earbud Flat Head Plug Earplugs HIFI Earbud Earphone Limite
US $41.50

When I click on that link, it shows that those are out of stock.
Read





Those aren't the same ones you sent the first picture for... Aren't those the 32Ω version?
Read

Yes 32 euros
Yes
32 Euro
Alibaba Translation
There are also 300 euro customization
There are 300 euro custom
Alibaba Translation

So, you don't have the 150Ω version then?

/endline

This makes my interaction with them even more odd, as I was asking about the 32Ω version from the get go so there was no chance for a bait-and-switch. You would think they would be happy to have a sale where they don't risk being refunded by AliExpress but everything about their behavior is dishonest.

Has anyone ordered the DR08 from Yinman's official Taobao store in recent memory? Just wondering about people's experiences with their store and any pitfalls to watch out for. I've tried looking through this thread with HeadFi's search but it's not the best at finding more detailed searches.

I did some research into Beijing Oakleaf Audio, has anyone heard of YuLong Audio? They list Beijing Oakleaf Audio as one of their official retailers (scroll down) (the security warning is just due to a misconfigured certificate, not an actual malicious website) and they list the same phone number as what's shown on the Taobao page for Beijing Oakleaf Audio. If YuLong is a legit company then it makes me even more comfortable ordering from Beijing Oakleaf Audio.

 

[Survivor]

So @Survivor would you consider these your best (current) set then? And, which DAP do you like best for these (and why, if you don't mind answering more questions)?

I use simpler DAPs and earbuds for the street and trips, and more expensive ones for home. These are Cayin N3Pro, Smabat ST10 and ST10s gold on graphene cables, the second division is DIY 300Ohms blue film with NiceHCK BlackSoul cable and the new TMusic EP6.

 

[omerad]

That's a lot more promising than any of the messages I've sent them, maybe I need to mention Green Bull in my message?

This makes my interaction with them even more odd, as I was asking about the 32Ω version from the get go so there was no chance for a bait-and-switch. You would think they would be happy to have a sale where they don't risk being refunded by AliExpress but everything about their behavior is dishonest.

Has anyone ordered the DR08 from Yinman's official Taobao store in recent memory? Just wondering about people's experiences with their store and any pitfalls to watch out for. I've tried looking through this thread with HeadFi's search but it's not the best at finding more detailed searches.

I did some research into Beijing Oakleaf Audio, has anyone heard of YuLong Audio? They list Beijing Oakleaf Audio as one of their official retailers (scroll down) (the security warning is just due to a misconfigured certificate, not an actual malicious website) and they list the same phone number as what's shown on the Taobao page for Beijing Oakleaf Audio. If YuLong is a legit company then it makes me even more comfortable ordering from Beijing Oakleaf Audio.

Yulong Audio is very legit, very nice amps and hi-fi gear made by serious audiophile engineers. I have the Aurora which has enough power to drive Yinman 600 and use it mostly for that. I don't think the DR08 is still made but you might be able to find the DR09. I also have ordered once from that Beijing Oakleaf Audio store a long time ago as they are one of the few stores selling Yuin PKs.

So it's interesting reading the past few pages about the Aliexpress stores and Yinman products and the varied quality of service folks have experienced. In China Taobao is designed for the domestic market and if you are serious about doing business on Taobao you will need to offer a very high level of service (including speed of communication, transparent product descriptions, fast shipping, easy returns, etc.). Of course all communication is done in Chinese so the language barrier is high, there is no built-in translation, you just have to communicate in written Chinese. There is a growing outbound to the world Taobao interface, but I think the vendors there are limited to larger companies or brands. Taobao is also full of millions of tiny merchants, and in the audio or specifically the flathead headphone space there are hundreds of DIY sellers. A lot of these sellers are also on Aliexpress selling the same wares, but they can't offer the same level of service, clearly due to language barrier, and the relatively complicated customs, export and logistics requirements. But in any case it's a purpose built portal for accessing the vast world of cheap Chinese manufacturing, but since you're dealing with a huge range of sellers you would expect service to vary widely. That's why it's good to share information and experiences.

As for Longyao Yinman I have a feeling it's more like a workshop style company, not a large company with financial resources to maintain inventory and service staff. They seem to take orders and build on demand. I myself wasn't able to buy the Yinman 600 through Taobao which is not listed there at all, I had to go through the Aliexpress AVCCK store which is not even allowed to transact with mainland customers (there is no China interface for Aliexpress). I had a quality problem with my set and was able to ship it back to the seller and get it fixed pretty easily. Looking at the Longyao Yinman store listings it seems most of the products are out-of-stock especially the 150Ohm versions, which probably explains the behavior of the aliexpress resellers. Within China it doesn't appear Longyao is a very popular or large company, which is a shame because they make such an incredible product. I do hope they release some new products eventually and that they get to the market more reliably.

 

[trevdawg94]

Yulong Audio is very legit, very nice amps and hi-fi gear made by serious audiophile engineers. I have the Aurora which has enough power to drive Yinman 600 and use it mostly for that. I don't think the DR08 is still made but you might be able to find the DR09. I also have ordered once from that Beijing Oakleaf Audio store a long time ago as they are one of the few stores selling Yuin PKs.


So it's interesting reading the past few pages about the Aliexpress stores and Yinman products and the varied quality of service folks have experienced. In China Taobao is designed for the domestic market and if you are serious about doing business on Taobao you will need to offer a very high level of service (including speed of communication, transparent product descriptions, fast shipping, easy returns, etc.). Of course all communication is done in Chinese so the language barrier is high, there is no built-in translation, you just have to communicate in written Chinese. There is a growing outbound to the world Taobao interface, but I think the vendors there are limited to larger companies or brands. Taobao is also full of millions of tiny merchants, and in the audio or specifically the flathead headphone space there are hundreds of DIY sellers. A lot of these sellers are also on Aliexpress selling the same wares, but they can't offer the same level of service, clearly due to language barrier, and the relatively complicated customs, export and logistics requirements. But in any case it's a purpose built portal for accessing the vast world of cheap Chinese manufacturing, but since you're dealing with a huge range of sellers you would expect service to vary widely. That's why it's good to share information and experiences.

As for Longyao Yinman I have a feeling it's more like a workshop style company, not a large company with financial resources to maintain inventory and service staff. They seem to take orders and build on demand. I myself wasn't able to buy the Yinman 600 through Taobao which is not listed there at all, I had to go through the Aliexpress AVCCK store which is not even allowed to transact with mainland customers (there is no China interface for Aliexpress). I had a quality problem with my set and was able to ship it back to the seller and get it fixed pretty easily. Looking at the Longyao Yinman store listings it seems most of the products are out-of-stock especially the 150Ohm versions, which probably explains the behavior of the aliexpress resellers. Within China it doesn't appear Longyao is a very popular or large company, which is a shame because they make such an incredible product. I do hope they release some new products eventually and that they get to the market more reliably.

That's good to hear, there are so many audio brands anymore it's hard to know whether one is good or not unless there's a lot of info about them or you have personal experience with them. They seemed legit but it never hurts to double check as there are much more well known brands with shady practies :cough: KZ :cough:. What's the difference between the DR08 and DR09? There aren't any detailed specs about the DR08 to compare with what's listed for the DR09.

Yeah it's super frustrating, I understand there's a language barrier but you would think that regardless of what site you're using there would be an incentive to provide good customer service especially if you're a smaller, niche store. It's good to hear that sellers on Taobao are held to a higher standard than AliExpress, you have to be very diligent when buying from AE though at least you have the option for them to refund you if the seller won't fix the issue. While built-in translation would be nice there are serviceable free translators and pretty decent paid translators that can remove some of that barrier but it's not as frictionless as AliExpress. I've bought bought products from Amazon Japan and purchased digital manga from cmoa.jp so I'm used to interpreting what I read through translation. I know that AliExpress handles logistics and shipping for some items but do they handle customs as well or is that up to each store? And for sellers on Taobao is it completely up to them to handle any logistics and customs issues as well as shipping? Yep I would rather have as much info before buying something in case I run into an issue especially when it's not going to be an easy process to get a replacement or refund.

That's the feeling I got from them as well and while there's nothing wrong with that it does really limit your potential customers when your products are so hard to buy. With how many manufacturers of audio equipment there are in China you would think they could partner with another company to use their production line and at least make regular, small batches. But maybe they don't want to give up the manufacturing process to another company since it would limit their design options compared to building it themselves. Yeah I'm surprised there's not even a listing for the 600 on their own Taobao store and no listings of the current version of the 600 at all, it's crazy that you had to go to such lengths to get them as well. If they were honest about what they had it wouldn't be such an issue, it's so weird that even when I want what they're actually selling that they won't even answer my questions. I hope so as well but with the timeline I saw on this thread not coming to fruition my hope of the situation improving isn't very high but hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[samandhi]

You probably already noticed this, but these have different specs (I am assuming different drivers). The cheaper one is 110 dB sensitivity, and the more expensive one is 98 dB.

Yes, I did notice this as well. Good eye.

They DID offer me a "custom" 300Ω bud, but with how devious they had been throughout the conversation, I am sure that this custom pair would simply be a set with an added resistor to boost the perceived impedance. No thanks!

Our DIY earbuds don't need EQ and are also cheap. They are really decent drivers, the ideal would be to be able to open them and tune them to your liking (but you won't succeed without breaking them).
For their price, they are good earbuds with or without eq

I actually NEVER feel the need to EQ any of my DIY stuff (or even open them to "retune"), so you are spot on Hermano.

Edit: Thank you for sharing your messaging report.

For me the only products of interest in that store were the Yinman buds and now I've got the only 2 versions of the Yinman buds they carry, so I'm done with buying from them. For others still interested in getting some Yinman buds from them, all I can say is "caveat emptor", buyer beware. If others do decide to buy from that store, at least some things were uncovered and you should know what to expect. Of course I also know that this series of posts will be lost among the thousands of posts in this thread in a couple of days time and someone will come along and ask about how to get a hold of some Yinman buds and the cycle begins again...

You are welcome. Speaking of which, I came back to that chat today (actually I left it open) and nope, there is still no reply. That is very sad because as I said, I would have actually bought the 32Ω version. This company is pushing a wonderful product in such a poor and unprofessional manner. They could be one of those shining things in a world of darkness if they were upfront/honest/willing to help.

You could always try those 300Ω buds they told me about in the chat... LOL

 

[h8uthemost]

Our DIY earbuds don't need EQ and are also cheap. They are really decent drivers, the ideal would be to be able to open them and tune them to your liking (but you won't succeed without breaking them).
For their price, they are good earbuds with or without eq

Nice. Do you happen to have a link to your buds? I'm pretty intrigued now.

Maybe they got busy or something, but chat seemed to end quickly, and is no longer talking to me. Guess we'll see if they are done talking to me...

Here is the transcript of the chat. Note; Alibaba translation sucks, so I applied my browser translate to it as well. Oh, and they DID send a picture of the Yinman 2.0 150Ω buds:

Oh nice! Thanks for posting that. I had no idea off a 2.0 @150ohm and for cheap. Maybe I should get this instead of the Rosemary.

 

[yaps66]

You're mistaken. I have found my sweet spot in only earbuds. Still exploring iems. Have to dabble in headphone too.

Got it. My bad! Enjoy your exploration of iems and headphones then! I am also almost there on both iems and headphones!

 

[justanut]

Getting tempted by this 600 ohm monster...

And also the 32 ohm stabilised version hmm..

 

[jeejack]

Nice. Do you happen to have a link to your buds? I'm pretty intrigued now.


Oh nice! Thanks for posting that. I had no idea off a 2.0 @150ohm and for cheap. Maybe I should get this instead of the Rosemary.

Grab a soldering iron and a multimeter and we'll help you make a few pairs of earbuds that we appreciate

 

[DruidZebra]

I've been listening to tunes with the RW-4000 everyday since I got them and I can say that there is a clear difference between the RW-4k and RW-3k. Just a simple quick comparison here. The 3k has more of a bass range, and because of that they have a more full body sound presentation, but this also means the bass can hide / veil some details in the music. The 4k still has excellent bass, but the mid to upper bass is reduced somewhat which allows more of the midrange to breathe and come to life. To me the presentation from the 4k is very engaging, just draws me into the music, while the 3k feels a little laid back due to it's bass presentation and reduced clarity. I actually like both buds for their different attributes, but I can fully understand weighing the cost of the 4k if you are happy with the 3k.

Do you subscribe to any streaming service like Spotify, Amazon, Tidal, etc.? If you do, do me a favor and listen to one tune for me with both 4k and 3k. Frank Zappa - The Grand Wazoo. It runs for a little more than 13 minutes and is all instrumental. You will hear a full gamut of instruments, brass, drums, electric guitar, bass guitar, xylophone... anyway this Zappa tune is a technical monster. I am a huge Zappa fan and I don't expect you to be a fan or have even listened to his music, but I think you will hear a big difference between the 4k and 3k buds just listening to this one tune. I hope you can listen to The Grand Wazoo with both buds and see if you hear some difference between the 4k and 3k.

I think with the Grand Wazoo song I do notice the clarity difference! I should also mention that I've been using both rw-3000 and rw-4000 without any foam tips (just find them more comfy naked). Not sure if that may affect my listening experience negatively though? Now that you've had the chance to compare yourself, and think each has their own advantages, which do you think has the design best suited for gaming? Since for me that's a higher priority than music!
Thanks for all the advice thus far!

 

[jwilliamhurst]

Getting tempted by this 600 ohm monster...




And also the 32 ohm stabilised version hmm..

What are these 600ohm buds?

 

[justanut]

What are these 600ohm buds?

I have no idea what's the english name lol..

*Update*
Reviews seem very good, so i ordered both of them. Shall see how good they are compared to the Dunu Alpha 3 that I also ordered. Jeez... these rabbit holes never stop popping up

 

[omerad]

I have no idea what's the english name lol..

*Update*
Reviews seem very good, so i ordered both of them. Shall see how good they are compared to the Dunu Alpha 3 that I also ordered. Jeez... these rabbit holes never stop popping up

It's Ming Jiang series referenced by WoodyLuvr here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-17102247

Did you buy it through Taobao directly? Curious to know if the process was smooth compared to Aliexpress...how is it with shipping and payment options (seems to be working for Singapore)?

Those are the Daik aka DK (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-宋 Song which have been rebranded/renamed one million times on AliExpress and Taobao (even FENGRU has a DK-宋 Song clone). They have also been cloned and unfortunately badly copied as well which adds to the confusion. The company is now known as Ming Jiang 鳴匠 and the Daik - DK branding has all but disappeared since 2017.

2015 - Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-晋 Jin; 32Ω (fixed cable)
2016 - Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-晋 Jin Upgrade; 35Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)
2016 - Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-宋 Song; 16Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)
2017 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 DK-宋 Song Red Sandalwood Upgrade; 29Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)
2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-坎 Kan 32; 32Ω (MMCX; named after NBA Star Enes Kanter)
2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-坎 Kan 150; 150Ω (mmcx)
2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-坎 Kan 600; 600Ω (mmcx)
2018 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-震 Zhen Shock Sleeping Bud; 30Ω (mmcx)
2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-600 Brazilian Rosewood; 600Ω (mmcx)
2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-600 Ebony Wood; 600Ω (mmcx)
2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-600 Sunda Mahogany Wood; 600Ω (mmcx)
2019 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-兌 Dui Blend Sleeping Bud; 31Ω (mmcx)
2020 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 DK-宋 Song 2020 Upgrade; 16Ω (mmcx)
2020 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-蘑菇 Mogu Mushroom; 16Ω (w/ fixed cable or mmcx)
2021 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-霜降 Frostfall Limited Edition; 32Ω (mmcx)
2021 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-霜降 Frostfall Standard Edition; 32Ω (mmcx)
2021 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 MJ-小滿 Xiaoman; 35Ω (mmcx)
2022 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 Abnormal Headphone Research Center Model No. 61; 32Ω (mmcx; a cheaper version of the 2021 MJ-霜降 Frostfall)
2022 - Ming Jiang 鳴匠 Summer Solstice; 32ΩLCP (mmcx; an upgraded version of 2021 MJ-霜降 Frostfall)


DK-宋 Song clones:
2019 - FENGRU DIY 14.3MM Wooden Flathead; 32Ω (DK-宋 Song clone; mmcx only; no cable included)
2022 - Tiandirenhe Handmade Red Sandalwood; ~16-36Ω (DK-宋 Song clone; mmcx)

MJ-蘑菇 Mogu Mushroom clone:
2023 - FENGRU DIY Mushroom Wooden Flathead; 32ΩGraphene (MJ-蘑菇 Mogu clone with different driver OEM'd by Ming Jiang 鳴匠; mmcx only; no cable included)
2023 - FENGRU DIY Summer Stable Wooden Flathead; 32Ω (MJ-霜降 Frostfall clone OEM'd by Ming Jiang 鳴匠; mmcx only; no cable included)



They were very well regarded back in 2015-2017 and gave rise to the Longyao-Yinman 龙谣音曼 brand. They are good but I would recommend a more refined Longyao-Yinman model now a days although the newest model "Frostfall" that debuted Christmas time in 2021 has peaked my interest but I have yet to hear one.

If you are still curious about the DK-Song I would recommend you buy from Ming Jiang (Daik) directly and order their latest 2020 upgrade of the DK-宋 Song:

Daik (Ming Jiang 鳴匠) DK-宋 Taobao Store Front