[Ronion]

With all this talk about high impedance, usefulness, big money, and high resolution, I just wanted to throw this out here: The FiiO FF3 have a high Rez sound, low impedance, easy to drive, great bass (probably my favorite earbud bass), great midrange (again a favorite), a large soundstage (and again on a favorite list), an easy fit(YMMV), and I think they even look good. Their treble is just a bit shy(depending on foams used), and their cable isn't the best though it's not horrible. The price is right for sure. If I could only afford one, it would be this one or my retune of the Tingo TG38--which can also be driven perfectly off of a typical 1v source. You don't need big money or big amps with buds to have a tremendously satisfying sound. The price has gone up on that Tingo ($17 USD) and retuning it is a bit of a danger, but it's very hard to beat as well. The Tingo also have a great midrange that makes my list and a great treble that is smooth and sweet. The soundstage is massive, but the bass is just okay after retuning. Mediocre before the retune. Nonetheless, for $20, it is unbelievable. I wouldn't necessarily say that one of these is better than the other, but they do have a different set of assets. It's a Marilyn Monroe vs. Sophia Loren situation. I'm not sure which is which. Just saying.

 

[WoodyLuvr]

Now for the comparison you just drew between the Yinman 600s and the RW-3000s. I own and like both and have amps that are more than powerul enough to get the best out of them. Others here may disagree with this, but even at their best, I don't find the 600s to be as resolving/detailed as the RW-3000. It is still a detailed earbud for sure, but I think the RW-3000 and a few others I own or have heard best it. The 600s are also significantly warmer than the RW-3000s. I would liken it to the difference between the Sennheiser HD600/HD650 and the HD660S. The former being known for warmth, the later being widely acknowledged as quite a bit less warm while still having some warmth to its mid range in particular.

Actually, I figured you might agree! I was thinking that @WoodyLuvr might not. You're definitely right about the RW-3000s being brighter and more analytical while retaining a touch of warmth and musicality. You're also right that the 600s are more detailed than a bud that warm would normally be.

I completely concur with your assessment of and the comparison between the Yinman 2.0 600 and the Yincrow RW-3000... a warmer tuning by nature generally means that you will lose something a little in the resolution department though this loss can have it's rewards... a smoother, more relaxing, and fatigue-free listening experience

Unfortunately, in this hobby you often can't draw reliable a = b comparisons like that because there are just too many variables at play. As you listen to more and more transducers from all mediums you'll come to understand what I mean.

Also concur. Well said and very true. I always encourage people to expand their transducer experience as it will help them better understand and correctly discover their preferred signature and make some surprising discoveries along the way.

Amen brother, and well said. It is tough enough trying to convey all aspects of what you are hearing so that others might benefit from that knowledge, but then to try and compare more than one set with the same difficulties becomes very difficult at best. At one point on here @WoodyLuvr almost stopped giving ANY sort of recommendations because some nasty people decided to PM him with nasty messages because they didn't like the sound of his recommendations at all (how petty/immature/unrealistic/ignorant can one be?).

It was totally !

That was an awfully strange period of time... happy that it has pretty much stopped now though I no longer maintain my flathead earbud god-tier list as a result of it... oh well, life!

 

[JAnonymous5150]

I completely concur with your assessment of and the comparison between the Yinman 2.0 600 and the Yincrow RW-3000... a warmer tuning by nature generally means that you will lose something a little in the resolution department though this loss has it's rewards... a smoother, more relaxing, and fatigue-free listening experience


Also concur. Well said and very true. I always encourage people to expand their transducer experience as it will help them better understand and correctly discover their preferred signature and make some surprising discoveries along the way.


It was totally !

That was an awfully strange period of time... happy that it has pretty much stopped now though I no longer maintain my flathead earbud god-tier list as a result of it... oh well, life!

I wasn't sure if you'd agree, but I wasn't positive you wouldn't agree with the Yinman 600-RW3000 comparison. It sure is nice to know we're all in basic agreement regarding that as it will hopefully make it easier for our friend in understanding differences between between recommendations.

It's terrible that people jumped on you because they weren't happy with purchases. When it comes down to it, its up to each one of us to do our due dilligence when researching product reviews and recommendations and to try to transfer that onus on to the person giving their subjective opinion as they try to help is complete BS. It's made even worse by the fact that you no longer keep your list because of it. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, bro.

If anything, it just highlights the total lack of experience and understanding of how this kind of thing works on the part of the folks involved in messaging you. I'm glad it's in the past now and I for one would encourage you to keep that list going.

When I was first looking at earbuds, before I was anything but a lurker on here, that list and several of your discussions and recommendations were immensely helpful to me in getting a better idea of what I was looking for and, more importantly, of which buds I should look at. I found that many, perhaps most, people often include little in the way of detail, reasons, or context behind their opinions or recommendations. Your posts seemed to surface again and again in searches I did as standouts for having useful details and info attached. So if I've never said it before, thank you very much for all the helpful info you dispersed into the community and eventually to me personally that helped me.

I always value your opinions and views highly and it saddens me to think of an earbud thread/community without your voice and shared opinions to help shape it. You're one of the best, Woody! Cheers

 

[ttorbic]

I wasn't sure if you'd agree, but I wasn't positive you wouldn't agree with the Yinman 600-RW3000 comparison. It sure is nice to know we're all in basic agreement regarding that as it will hopefully make it easier for our friend in understanding differences between between recommendations.

It's terrible that people jumped on you because they weren't happy with purchases. When it comes down to it, its up to each one of us to do our due dilligence when researching product reviews and recommendations and to try to transfer that onus on to the person giving their subjective opinion as they try to help is complete BS. It's made even worse by the fact that you no longer keep your list because of it. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, bro.

If anything, it just highlights the total lack of experience and understanding of how this kind of thing works on the part of the folks involved in messaging you. I'm glad it's in the past now and I for one would encourage you to keep that list going.

When I was first looking at earbuds, before I was anything but a lurker on here, that list and several of your discussions and recommendations were immensely helpful to me in getting a better idea of what I was looking for and, more importantly, of which buds I should look at. I found that many, perhaps most, people often include little in the way of detail, reasons, or context behind their opinions or recommendations. Your posts seemed to surface again and again in searches I did as standouts for having useful details and info attached. So if I've never said it before, thank you very much for all the helpful info you dispersed into the community and eventually to me personally that helped me.

I always value your opinions and views highly and it saddens me to think of an earbud thread/community without your voice and shared opinions to help shape it. You're one of the best, Woody! Cheers

And you are also one of the best, @JAnonymous5150! I really appreciated your quick reply to my earlier request for an impression of your Rikubuds I know it takes time to listen, analyse, and write a thoughtful response, so I'm thankful for your time!

I shall one day share my thoughts about the Serratus and Alter Rider 1!

 

[o0genesis0o]

I'm working on the review of FF3 and Shanling UP4. Since some manufacturers have politely but firmly suggested that I take more photos, I decided to take my real camera out. Here are some eye candies (I hope) of some DIY buds that I am using now:

GEM002 (rebuilt GEM001) and GEM003 (tuned YD30 driver, metal shell, now with snazzy interchangeable plug cable)

 

[JAnonymous5150]

And you are also one of the best, @JAnonymous5150! I really appreciated your quick reply to my earlier request for an impression of your Rikubuds I know it takes time to listen, analyse, and write a thoughtful response, so I'm thankful for your time!

I shall one day share my thoughts about the Serratus and Alter Rider 1!

Aww shucks! You too, big guy! If I didn't like you so much I probably would've been able to ignore you lol!

Edit: And I'll be looking forward to those impressions. I've been thinking about a tgxears purchase.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

I'm working on the review of FF3 and Shanling UP4. Since some manufacturers have politely but firmly suggested that I take more photos, I decided to take my real camera out. Here are some eye candies (I hope) of some DIY buds that I am using now:

GEM002 (rebuilt GEM001) and GEM003 (tuned YD30 driver, metal shell, now with snazzy interchangeable plug cable)

Nice pics! Those are some good looking buds, bro!

 

[miroslav]

That ridiculous DHL only shipping for my country has been finally updated after two years so I was able to order the B40 at 10 EUR again instead of 150 EUR. They were marked with only 5 left notice when I was ordering them at the famous Aliexpress shop couple of days ago. I hope it relates only to the latest batch. It would be pity to see them going out of production.

I will try to fix the broken cable on my first B40 one day. I'm still keeping the drivers.

In the meantime, I have found a brand new and never used Sony MH4 10C in a drawer which came like 10 years ago with my old Sony phone. They are in mint condition and sound fantastic for budget buds. Will also try to grab another pair of these somewhere online. They are at least on pair with the B40, probably slightly better.

 

[jeejack]

I'm working on the review of FF3 and Shanling UP4. Since some manufacturers have politely but firmly suggested that I take more photos, I decided to take my real camera out. Here are some eye candies (I hope) of some DIY buds that I am using now:

GEM002 (rebuilt GEM001) and GEM003 (tuned YD30 driver, metal shell, now with snazzy interchangeable plug cable)

Nice work! Those metallic shells deserve better drivers.

 

[yaps66]

Having never heard the recommendations @ttorbic made, I can only give you some more mainstream recommendations. My favorite earbud for acoustic guitar based music is the Symphonio Dragon 3 on which that kind of music sounds simply sublime. The guitar's each and every note sounds vibrantly realistic and well formed. The timbre, note weight, and presentation are all dead on. The Dragon 3s are quite expensive so I will also say that the Yincrow RW-3000s are also an incredible match with acoustic guitar, lending a depth and musicality that's pretty addictive.

As for the plastic protectors you're asking about, are you refering to the little plastic cylinders that are open at one end that manufacturers use as sheaths to cover the metal tip that actually goes inside a headphone jack on a source for example?

I have bought on @JAnonymous5150 recommendations and they are always spot on!

I also own a bud made by @tgx78 so can also attest to how good they are though I have not heard either the Serratus or Alpha. However I just purchased both on the recommendation of other head-fiers that I trust!

 

[yaps66]

Yeah, I know. That's a good explanation of it. Nice and succinct. Did I get drunk and ask about this without remembering? LOL

LOL—nope. It was @dinodogJR. I’m not sure why I thought it was you. I am sober LOL

This exchange is gold! Love it! . Made my day!

 

[FranQL]

IMO it's not as simple as higher impedance equals better resolution because as you mentioned before there are a lot of other variables at play that would have to be controlled for to make that statement true.

Then beyond that you have to ask yourself if you have the amplification power to actually provide proper power (and current) to a high impedance earbud to actually allow it to perform at a level that will give you that increased resolution.

For example a high impedance, low sensitivity bud like the Yinman 600s are basically a desktop earbud because of the power they require to reach maximum perormance. I have used mine with powerful portable sources and can get the volume, but while the loss of detail and control isn't huge it is noticeable. So you also have to ask yourself if you're looking for a pair of buds with such extreme requirements that potentially limit their mobility or performance if used in mobile or portable applications.

Now for the comparison you just drew between the Yinman 600s and the RW-3000s. I own and like both and have amps that are more than powerul enough to get the best out of them. Others here may disagree with this, but even at their best, I don't find the 600s to be as resolving/detailed as the RW-3000. It is still a detailed earbud for sure, but I think the RW-3000 and a few others I own or have heard best it. The 600s are also significantly warmer than the RW-3000s. I would liken it to the difference between the Sennheiser HD600/HD650 and the HD660S. The former being known for warmth, the later being widely acknowledged as quite a bit less warm while still having some warmth to its mid range in particular.

Unfortunately, in this hobby you often can't draw reliable a = b comparisons like that because there are just too many variables at play. As you listen to more and more transducers from all mediums you'll come to understand what I mean.

When giving advice or making suggestions I try to keep things as simple as possible, but oversimplifying can lead to significant disappointment so I promise you I'm not just bringing this up to be complicated or pedantic. I'm using some of my scarce break time to say this because I don't want to see you fall into the trap of oversimplifying to the point where the extrapolations you're making no longer reflect the reality you'll eventually contend with.

I hope this helped rather than just made things complicated and I'll try to keep an eye out for follow up questions.

P.S. Sorry for any typos. I typed this in a rush on a phone with my caveman thumbs!

Edit: I should add that, for me personally, really high impedance/low sensitivity buds have limited usefulness. I do love earbuds and I do occasionally use them while sitting as my desk or near a powerful desktop amp, but for the most part I like the freedom earbuds provide by unblocking my ear canals and being driveable from a powerful portable amp, combo, or DAP. I own a few pairs of 600ohm buds (though 1 was free and another purchased as part of a lot) and would potentially buy others if I thought they offered something exceptional that I couldn't get elsewhere. I also have high impedance drivers for DIYing as well. That said, for the most part from here on out I will likely be sticking to buds 300-400ohms (and that aren't of low sensitivity) and below because they fit the use cases that I love earbuds for. Obviously that may not apply to you at all, but I figured it might be useful to explain. Cheers!

Totally agree, it's like having the world's best headset or IEM and these are not comfortable in your ears, or directly uncomfortable, at least I won't use them.

but, here I make a nuance... the mind, the brain, our obsessive-compulsive capacity plays a very important role:

Right now I'm taking my dog out with BTR3k and my 600 Ohm, and yes, it sounds spectacular, incredible... it's worth using it even knowing that it will scale more and better with a powerful amplifier... the question is will you be able to use it knowing that it can sound even better?

I can, because it can sound a little better, but with BTR3k it's still my favorite sound bud.

In line with this need for power, the best of the best, I am no exception, so a few days ago I was looking at DAPs, which of course I am convinced that I "need" (or I think I need) the best and more powerful to get the most out of the hobby, it is a micro plus of sound that will make a difference (I laugh myself when writing it). So I looked at models, all from €1,000, and above €1,500 flagships all the way up to much higher even €3,000-4,000.

Well any of them covers my autosuggested need for power as a source for me, my mind told me this is your thing for this hobby, and they are... but, a quick look at the hardware put me on the ground, these super DAP megatolt They have the same specifications of an android phone from 4 years ago!!!!! in some models 7 or more... that is to say a level of performance... uhhhhh. Only a need for better sound, more power, or pure sound-oriented justifications can lead to buying them

If the technology is obsolete by definition in a short time, in these DAPs you are guaranteed a mediocre performance in much less time, and of course the need for a new and more fluid DAP.

So I skipped them.... I don't have a DAP tolt that satisfies me to listen to anything but €2000 is hard for me to earn LOL

In my opinion they should have TOLT specifications for hardware at the same level as they do for sound....

 

[yaps66]

BTW! Out of curiosity (and this is for everyone also), when you order a set of buds, and have a choice of connectors which do you prefer? Normally I will get 2.5mm balanced.
[/spoiler]

My preference is 4.4. While it has not happened to me yet, too many horror stories from head-fiers of the 2.5mm breaking on them causing knock-on damage to either iem or dap or both! I can live with more chonky adapters. They inspire more confidence! YMMV of course!

 

[o0genesis0o]

In my experience, and having had head gear for lots of years (I am in my 50s), boosting the "shouty" region is really a lazy way of offering (the perception of) clarity without having to tune the treble region well, which (in their defense) IS one of the most difficult parts to tune right.

In my experience, IEMs can get away with slightly poor tuning if the treble extension is good enough. Case and point: Campfire Andromeda 2020. Without its extended and very well control treble “air”, it would not have that micro details and holographic imagine, and would just be a warm; slightly off IEM.

To think about it, “treble” is a very wide range of frequencies. There are many kinds of harshness in that region as well.

Still, I think ear gain around 3k is important. How much is a different question and seems to be determined in conjunction with the amount of lower midrange and midbass.

Unfortunately, in this hobby you often can't draw reliable a = b comparisons like that because there are just too many variables at play. As you listen to more and more transducers from all mediums you'll come to understand what I mean.

That’s why I break the A/B test into small elements.

Still, sometimes I think many of us “audiophile” (me) need to get out of our bubble and get the impressions from casual listeners once in a while. We (I) can get too focused on small things and forget the overall picture.

For example, I care about only resolution and staging, but it’s apparently that most casual listeners that I get feedback from recently have zero idea nor care nor appreciate those. They want crisp, clear, good bass (no, not dirty bass, even casual listeners seem to be able to recognise bad bass).

At one point on here @WoodyLuvr almost stopped giving ANY sort of recommendations because some nasty people decided to PM him with nasty messages because they didn't like the sound of his recommendations at all (how petty/immature/unrealistic/ignorant can one be?).

Jezz, what’s wrong with people?

Nice work! Those metallic shells deserve better drivers.

Thanks! Those PEEK+PU (?) drivers are surprisingly decent. In fact, they got better feedback from my colleagues than my 64 ohm Ti composite driver. Still, I want more. Perhaps some thing 300 ohm?

 

[o0genesis0o]

Totally agree, it's like having the world's best headset or IEM and these are not comfortable in your ears, or directly uncomfortable, at least I won't use them.

but, here I make a nuance... the mind, the brain, our obsessive-compulsive capacity plays a very important role:

Right now I'm taking my dog out with BTR3k and my 600 Ohm, and yes, it sounds spectacular, incredible... it's worth using it even knowing that it will scale more and better with a powerful amplifier... the question is will you be able to use it knowing that it can sound even better?

I can, because it can sound a little better, but with BTR3k it's still my favorite sound bud.

In line with this need for power, the best of the best, I am no exception, so a few days ago I was looking at DAPs, which of course I am convinced that I "need" (or I think I need) the best and more powerful to get the most out of the hobby, it is a micro plus of sound that will make a difference (I laugh myself when writing it). So I looked at models, all from €1,000, and above €1,500 flagships all the way up to much higher even €3,000-4,000.

Well any of them covers my autosuggested need for power as a source for me, my mind told me this is your thing for this hobby, and they are... but, a quick look at the hardware put me on the ground, these super DAP megatolt They have the same specifications of an android phone from 4 years ago!!!!! in some models 7 or more... that is to say a level of performance... uhhhhh. Only a need for better sound, more power, or pure sound-oriented justifications can lead to buying them

If the technology is obsolete by definition in a short time, in these DAPs you are guaranteed a mediocre performance in much less time, and of course the need for a new and more fluid DAP.

So I skipped them.... I don't have a DAP tolt that satisfies me to listen to anything but €2000 is hard for me to earn LOL

In my opinion they should have TOLT specifications for hardware at the same level as they do for sound....

Perhaps VE megatron attached to a phone?

I look for a DAP because the dongle+phone combo is kind of annoying in practice: get tangled, disconnecting, random crackling sound, etc.