Earbuds Round-Up
Mar 29, 2022 at 12:34 AM Post #60,751 of 75,235
A concern is the fitting of foams (for tuning) and the earhooks at the same time. I can't imagine putting foams over the earhooks, and putting the earhooks over foams could be a slight task as well?

I'm giving up on MX500 shells already as other shell fits better and I realize the foams make it worse, will probably try earhooks without the foam


Well, of those, I would opt for a PK diy, specifically PK 150 Ohm transparent film, it costs around €35


https://a.aliexpress.com/_vKjiKk

Another question for the tonality of this unit, any idea what's it look like?
I found that most earbuds are vocal-forward, but is there any less vocal forward pair with good detail? Most of my library is jazz and its derivatives
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 12:52 AM Post #60,752 of 75,235
Hi everyone, I don't know if anyone is familiar with the earbuds Tingo tc200. I recently ordered them from Aliexpress about a month ago. I liked them but it was a bit trebly (had to put foams on). Then I saw a few comments on Head-fi and Reddit about the "old version" of the tc200 sounding better. Does anyone know where to find that old version? I have trouble finding information about this. Maybe they were trolling? I got mine from this store:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687542028.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.14545c57237hTa&algo_pvid=22ab1c77-0f26-4871-b6b6-0b2ab57a9ad0&algo_exp_id=22ab1c77-0f26-4871-b6b6-0b2ab57a9ad0-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"67027828990"}&pdp_pi=-1;7.59;-1;-1@salePrice;USD;search-mainSearch

I don't know if this one is the old version or not. Thank you for reading.
 
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Mar 29, 2022 at 1:27 AM Post #60,754 of 75,235
Good pickup!

The NiceHCK Traceless also uses a 15.4 mm driver, but IIRC it was red and blue and not these psychedelic colours. Very tempted to click buy, but have too many budget earbuds at home and sneaking another budget earbud past the wife/hawk may be tough. Must keep the powder dry for a earbud that is a clear upgrade, rather than sidegrade pokemons!
I just wonder if it's going to be a new shell or just a coloured mx500 shell. I had no plans to buy or try any more earphones, but it's cheap enough that I just ordered one anyway just for fun. 😂
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 3:04 AM Post #60,755 of 75,235
I'm giving up on MX500 shells already as other shell fits better and I realize the foams make it worse, will probably try earhooks without the foam

Another question for the tonality of this unit, any idea what's it look like?
I found that most earbuds are vocal-forward, but is there any less vocal forward pair with good detail? Most of my library is jazz and its derivatives

PK 150 is a great sound, and a good tonality, with modest detail but good laterality and depth, not particularly outstanding but IMO they do nothing wrong. I'm not much good of a sound describer, sorry.

I still use them today and a few weeks ago I used the driver to do this UPGRADE :smile:

IMG_20220329_092652.jpg
 
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Mar 29, 2022 at 3:34 AM Post #60,756 of 75,235
Mar 29, 2022 at 5:01 AM Post #60,757 of 75,235

Gotcha, after a little bit of reading, earbuds would almost always be mid-centric, and what could be moved around would be whether the mids is more toward the warm side or the opposite. It's now a matter of whether the units has better detail, sparkle, separation, or basically the technicalities then.


PK 150 is a great sound, and a good tonality, with modest detail but good laterality and depth, not particularly outstanding but IMO they do nothing wrong. I'm not much good of a sound describer, sorry.

I still use them today and a few weeks ago I used the driver to do this UPGRADE :smile:


Are you referring to the Yuin PK1 driver with 150 ohm impedance? Do you need a really strong amp to power this pair?
 
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Mar 29, 2022 at 5:24 AM Post #60,758 of 75,235
PK 150 is a great sound, and a good tonality, with modest detail but good laterality and depth, not particularly outstanding but IMO they do nothing wrong. I'm not much good of a sound describer, sorry.

I still use them today and a few weeks ago I used the driver to do this UPGRADE :smile:

IMG_20220329_092652.jpg
20220329_122242.jpg
Totally agree
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 5:27 AM Post #60,759 of 75,235
Gotcha, after a little bit of reading, earbuds would almost always be mid-centric, and what could be moved around would be whether the mids is more toward the warm side or the opposite. It's now a matter of whether the units has better detail, sparkle, separation, or basically the technicalities then.
Correct; nearly every earbud that I have had the opportunity to listen to has exhibited a primary mid-centric sound signature and that is simply due to being of open-air design. With that said, there are indeed a number of earbuds with very strong secondary signatures that may and do pull their sound signature (tuning) to other areas.

Some earbuds to consider that are less mid-centric (mid-forward) than others would be Ks Bell-LBBs, FiiO EM5, and the Moondrop Chaconne. There are also the Astrotec Lyra models to consider but do be aware that they tend to be extremely bright with wonky sounding timbre to a many earbud enthusiast. Also, please be warned that both Ksearphone and FiiO have most unfortunately suffered some concerning QA/QC issues that you should be made well aware of before purchasing. The NiceHCK EBX21 is probably the least mid-centric earbud that I have ever heard but it too can be overly bright and harsh, as well as super critical with certain recordings and genres.

1648545931231.png
 
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Mar 29, 2022 at 5:59 AM Post #60,760 of 75,235
Correct; nearly every earbud that I have had the opportunity to listen to has exhibited a primary mid-centric sound signature and that is simply due to being of open-air design. With that said, there are indeed a number of earbuds with very strong secondary signatures that may and do pull their sound signature (tuning) to other areas.

Some earbuds to consider that are less mid-centric (mid-forward) than others would be Ks Bell-LBBs, FiiO EM5, and the Moondrop Chaconne. There are also the Astrotec Lyra models to consider but do be aware that they tend to be extremely bright with wonky sounding timbre to a many earbud enthusiast. Also, please be warned that both Ksearphone and FiiO have most unfortunately suffered some concerning QA/QC issues that you should be made well aware of before purchasing. The NiceHCK EBX21 is probably the least mid-centric earbud that I have ever heard but it too can be overly bright and harsh, as well as super critical with certain recordings and genres.

1648545931231.png

Great advise!

Interestingly, one of the rarer V shaped earbuds I've tried is the HE150 Pro (not to be confused with the non Pro version). This set has quite recessed lower mids with big bass. Needs amping though, but it actually sounds like a budget IEM (where V shaped signatures are dime a dozen).
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 6:30 AM Post #60,761 of 75,235
Another question for the tonality of this unit, any idea what's it look like?
I found that most earbuds are vocal-forward, but is there any less vocal forward pair with good detail? Most of my library is jazz and its derivatives.
Try the Monk Plus if you can. You explained it’s sound sig perfectly. It’s mids are a bit veiled but the top end has decent sparkle. It has the standard Mx500 shell though.
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 7:23 AM Post #60,762 of 75,235
I humbly would like to offer some 'food for thought' in regards to sound signatures especially in regards to earbuds.

A BRIEF STUDY OF EARBUD SOUND SIGNATURES
Although, earbuds do exhibit strong/weak secondary and/or complementing/opposing tertiary signatures that may reach out towards U-Shaped and V-Shaped tuning, their primary signature are generally and heavily Mid-Centric which is inherent of and intrinsic to their open-air (open-back like) design. Thus, explaining why earbuds tend to lean more heavily towards W-Shaped mid-forward sounding tuning. Often forgotten and/or misunderstood a W-Shaped sound signature is one that has emphasized bass, midrange, and treble (lows, mids, & highs)... completely opposite of a Flat sound signature that doesn't have emphasized lows, mids, or highs.

Simply put, W-Shaped is a V-Shaped signature with pronounced Mid-Centric (mid-forward) traits.

Therefore, when an earbud exhibits a V-Shaped signature please consider that perhaps it is more than likely a primary W-Shaped characteristic that is being heard instead. Not to say, that in certain cases, that some earbuds are not displaying a rather strong secondary signature reaching out to V-Shaped because they very well may indeed be! My point is that one should first consider W-Shaped as being the exhibited signature as it is, more likely than not, the correct choice being both a strong Mid-Centric identifier and a common primary sound signature for a many earbud to date.


SOUND SIGNATURE CHART
It is crucial that you do not interpret this chart two-dimensionally but rather three-dimensionally using all axes offered. Optimally, this would be best presented as a sphere but in turn that would make it difficult to clearly see and read all the labels and sections. Thus, we are limited to two-dimensions for the sake of presentation and clarity. Please note that I tried my best to stick to the "classic" (more basic) sound signature & tuning characteristic definitions as used by recording professionals & audio engineers.

Sound Signature Chart - Multi-Axis Interpretation
1645553032241.png

Sound Signature Chart by Earphone Transducer Type - Showing the general area where the primary sound signature plot may fall by different transducer types.
1645553061748.png
Ks Bell-LBBs Sound Signature Chart
1645551935594.png

Primary = Mid-Centric - Neutral
Secondary (Strong) = Warm (not muddy, nor muffled)
Secondary (Weak) = Sharp & Detailed
Tertiary (Complementing) = Hard-Harsh (enhanced female vocals; sometimes aggressive though)
Tertiary (Opposing) = Hard-Harsh (not overly bright, nor sibilant though); Thin & Tinny (aggressive)

The primary sound signature (red dot and red-shaded oval) of the Ks Bell-LBBs is "mid-centric - neutral" with a very strong secondary sound signature (dark-blue shaded balloon) that reaches out to "warm" but is far from being muddy, smeared, or muffled. A non-overpowering weak secondary sound signature (light-blue shaded balloon) reaches out to "detailed" for greater resolution and more realistic, natural-sounding timbre. Prominent complementing tertiary sound characteristics (green shaded arrows) are exhibited in the upper mids and very lower treble that may/can come across as being rather "hard-harsh" but in-turn also provides enhanced female vocals and reproduction of bright-leaning instruments. Due to mildly recessed mid and upper highs a sneaky and quite "aggressive" ("thin & tinny") opposing tertiary sound characteristic (green shaded arrow) may rear it's ugly head occasionally with certain recordings and music genres.


Please Note - The other shown earphone plots (gray dots) are only indicating the primary (strongest sounding) signature and does not take into account other possible strong/weak secondary sound signatures and/or opposing/complementing tertiary sound characteristics. Some transducers may exhibit multiple and opposing tonal attributes all at the same time. I tend to plot earphones by their strongest attribute(s) first and then do my best to fine tune their position based on their other (minor) attributes.
I love the visualization of the chart. Is it possible to include Fiio EM5 and Rw3000 as well?
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 7:37 AM Post #60,763 of 75,235
Correct; nearly every earbud that I have had the opportunity to listen to has exhibited a primary mid-centric sound signature and that is simply due to being of open-air design. With that said, there are indeed a number of earbuds with very strong secondary signatures that may and do pull their sound signature (tuning) to other areas.

Some earbuds to consider that are less mid-centric (mid-forward) than others would be Ks Bell-LBBs, FiiO EM5, and the Moondrop Chaconne. There are also the Astrotec Lyra models to consider but do be aware that they tend to be extremely bright with wonky sounding timbre to a many earbud enthusiast. Also, please be warned that both Ksearphone and FiiO have most unfortunately suffered some concerning QA/QC issues that you should be made well aware of before purchasing. The NiceHCK EBX21 is probably the least mid-centric earbud that I have ever heard but it too can be overly bright and harsh, as well as super critical with certain recordings and genres.

1648545931231.png
Great advise!

Interestingly, one of the rarer V shaped earbuds I've tried is the HE150 Pro (not to be confused with the non Pro version). This set has quite recessed lower mids with big bass. Needs amping though, but it actually sounds like a budget IEM (where V shaped signatures are dime a dozen).

Gotcha, I now have on my list the LBBs and the HE150 Pro.
Need to do my own research on reviews on those two, those are more like my budget for now. Thanks for the rec!

Actually to add a little bit more, the reason why I'm looking for a less vocal centric is because I'm a little sensitive to upper mids which most of the time come in the form female vocal, or sometimes saxophone. There were a time when I was talking to owner of audio stores online where I live and most are recommending me Moondrop SSRs and I had to re-sell them right away when I got my hands on it. The upper mids a lot of the times are too painful, even with different pair of eartips.
I wouldn't mind the mids if it's more forward on like let's say male vocals, long as the bass is not flooding the lower mids. But I also don't mind bright pair as long as the upper mids are not that forward.


Try the Monk Plus if you can. You explained it’s sound sig perfectly. It’s mids are a bit veiled but the top end has decent sparkle. It has the standard Mx500 shell though.

I know.. But it's cheap and earhooks are on the way. I'll take a chance on this. Thanks!
But do you have any opinion on VE Monk Plus vs Yincrow X6/RW-9? Rikudou Goku mentions it a lot in this thread and I remember reading Rikudou mentioning that the Yincrows are also kind of V-shape-ish
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 7:53 AM Post #60,764 of 75,235
But do you have any opinion on VE Monk Plus vs Yincrow X6/RW-9? Rikudou Goku mentions it a lot in this thread and I remember reading Rikudou mentioning that the Yincrows are also kind of V-shape-ish
RW-9 is the more v-shaped one compared to the X6.

Monk plus was the first bud I tried and almost my last.
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 8:07 AM Post #60,765 of 75,235
Gotcha, I now have on my list the LBBs and the HE150 Pro.
Need to do my own research on reviews on those two, those are more like my budget for now. Thanks for the rec!

Actually to add a little bit more, the reason why I'm looking for a less vocal centric is because I'm a little sensitive to upper mids which most of the time come in the form female vocal, or sometimes saxophone. There were a time when I was talking to owner of audio stores online where I live and most are recommending me Moondrop SSRs and I had to re-sell them right away when I got my hands on it. The upper mids a lot of the times are too painful, even with different pair of eartips.
I wouldn't mind the mids if it's more forward on like let's say male vocals, long as the bass is not flooding the lower mids. But I also don't mind bright pair as long as the upper mids are not that forward.




I know.. But it's cheap and earhooks are on the way. I'll take a chance on this. Thanks!
But do you have any opinion on VE Monk Plus vs Yincrow X6/RW-9? Rikudou Goku mentions it a lot in this thread and I remember reading Rikudou mentioning that the Yincrows are also kind of V-shape-ish
Hmm.. The X6 is a tad bassier than the Rw9 and given your circumstance I’d advise you to try the RW9 over the X6. If you want a basshead earbud, try the Willsound mkii as that is the direct upgrade over the X6.

The Monk Plus has leaner bass compared to the Yincrow brothers and somewhat veiled mids but it’s offset by the treble. It has decent sparkle at the top end which may be the one you’re looking for.

Basically get the RW9 and Monk Plus as they have different sound sigs.

Get the Willsound Mkii over the X6 if you want a basshead earbud.
 

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