[samandhi]

I have a follow up question to your awsome reply
I think that TO600 have really good and comfortable fit in my ears, I can wear them for hours without discomfort.
Do you have any opinions/obeservations regarding fit and comfort of the Yincrows? Preferably compared to Tonekings offerings.

I know you didn't ask me, and I also can't speak for the TO600, but I have both sets of Yincrows. I can tell you that (for my ears), they are the best fitting buds I have in my collection (except the FiiO FF3, which fit best and are the most comfortable, even though they are heavy). The bud diameter itself is the same as most other typical buds, but the shell is really small, and seems to be shaped so as to ergonomically sit in your ears for both comfort and for not moving around. I think that designs like this get overlooked a bit as to how well they are designed.

Oh, and let's mention the cable on both sets... They are some of the best cables in the business. They are fairly thick, making them very durable. And they are very soft and pliable. I wish they all sent cables like this with their creations.

Edit: OH! and also because of the shape they both can be worn either down or over ear with little to no sound difference or comfort issues (IMHO).

 

[samandhi]

@assassin10000 BTW! I forgot to mention (probably) one of the most DF buds that I have. The DUNU Alpha 1. These are not just tuned to be that way (which they certainly are), but if you look at the front of these, they are also designed to be this way. With the BA sound coming from that small sideways firing stem and the lower end coming from the front firing (standard) DD driver, you have no choice but to hear it as a reflection off of your own ears. Staging isn't quite as big as with the Maria II, but they aren't lacking either.

Of course, they are also tuned VERY much DF neutral too (to your definition and mine also ). This combination makes them sound very good (as long as that is the tuning that you are looking for). Since I don't often listen to stuff that this type of sound plays well to, these don't get a lot of ear time for me, but when I do have a mood to use them, they are VERY good at what they do.

In case you forgot the history of these, they came out in 2014, are the first bud to use one DD and one BA transducer, and they are still available. I was truly lucky because I found a seller on Amazon that was looking to move their stock (since they aren't popular anymore), and I got them for something like $39 (I bought these TOTALLY blind), but I think they are worth TOTL pricing as long as people understand that they are indeed not tuned anything like the Harmon curve (and its variations).

A couple of reviews on these:
Here
and:
Here

Spoiler: DUNU Alpha 1 Unboxing Experience

 

[fooltoque]

@assassin10000 BTW! I forgot to mention (probably) one of the most DF buds that I have. The DUNU Alpha 1. These are not just tuned to be that way (which they certainly are), but if you look at the front of these, they are also designed to be this way. With the BA sound coming from that small sideways firing stem and the lower end coming from the front firing (standard) DD driver, you have no choice but to hear it as a reflection off of your own ears. Staging isn't quite as big as with the Maria II, but they aren't lacking either.

Of course, they are also tuned VERY much DF neutral too (to your definition and mine also ). This combination makes them sound very good (as long as that is the tuning that you are looking for). Since I don't often listen to stuff that this type of sound plays well to, these don't get a lot of ear time for me, but when I do have a mood to use them, they are VERY good at what they do.

In case you forgot the history of these, they came out in 2014, are the first bud to use one DD and one BA transducer, and they are still available. I was truly lucky because I found a seller on Amazon that was looking to move their stock (since they aren't popular anymore), and I got them for something like $39 (I bought these TOTALLY blind), but I think they are worth TOTL pricing as long as people understand that they are indeed not tuned anything like the Harmon curve (and its variations).

A couple of reviews on these:
Here
and:
Here

Spoiler: DUNU Alpha 1 Unboxing Experience

Ooh I'm so interested in that. Unlike most buds discussed here, I could get them tomorrow delivery from Amazon.

However... I did pull the trigger on the RW-3000! Aliexpress had a coupon that took about $50 off, and they are also offering free returns for 15 days after receipt, although I don't know how well that would go if I did decide to return it.

@JAnonymous5150 You said that there are parts of the frequency range of the FF5 that irritate you. I personally don't find anything offensive in the FF5 frequency range at all, which probably allows me to enjoy them more than you do. I think we instinctively shrink away from irritating parts, no matter how small, which doesn't allow us to be fully engaged in the sound. So yeah, what I'm saying is that I know our ears are different, so there is a chance I won't like the RW-3000 as much as you do. But in any case I'm really looking forward to it!

 

[samandhi]

Ooh I'm so interested in that. Unlike most buds discussed here, I could get them tomorrow delivery from Amazon.

However... I did pull the trigger on the RW-3000! Aliexpress had a coupon that took about $50 off, and they are also offering free returns for 15 days after receipt, although I don't know how well that would go if I did decide to return it.

@JAnonymous5150 You said that there are parts of the frequency range of the FF5 that irritate you. I personally don't find anything offensive in the FF5 frequency range at all, which probably allows me to enjoy them more than you do. I think we instinctively shrink away from irritating parts, no matter how small, which doesn't allow us to be fully engaged in the sound. So yeah, what I'm saying is that I know our ears are different, so there is a chance I won't like the RW-3000 as much as you do. But in any case I'm really looking forward to it!

Let us know if you get a set. I think they didn't get the attention they deserved (even then). I bought a pair for myself and miserybeforethemusic before he moved on, and we both agreed that these are something special (again as long as you temper your expectations, knowing the type of tuning they have).

As for the RW3000 and FF5, I find them to be very similar in tuning. I also find nothing offensive about the (FF5) tuning at all. As a matter of fact, I find that the RW3000 have a more boosted pina gain than do the FF5. That might be why @JAnonymous5150 likes them better because he is not sensitive to that area as much as I am, and it DOES add some spacing and (the perception of) clarity, if you can handle it. For me the RW3000 are right on the line even though I love them a lot. With the FiiO balanced or even bass foams it does take care of that (mostly) for me.

Anyhow, congrats on your new (incoming) shiny! I am positive you will love them.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Ooh I'm so interested in that. Unlike most buds discussed here, I could get them tomorrow delivery from Amazon.

However... I did pull the trigger on the RW-3000! Aliexpress had a coupon that took about $50 off, and they are also offering free returns for 15 days after receipt, although I don't know how well that would go if I did decide to return it.

@JAnonymous5150 You said that there are parts of the frequency range of the FF5 that irritate you. I personally don't find anything offensive in the FF5 frequency range at all, which probably allows me to enjoy them more than you do. I think we instinctively shrink away from irritating parts, no matter how small, which doesn't allow us to be fully engaged in the sound. So yeah, what I'm saying is that I know our ears are different, so there is a chance I won't like the RW-3000 as much as you do. But in any case I'm really looking forward to it!

I wouldn't say that it irritates me. There is some part/peak in the lower treble that, when tracks hit just the right note, becomes a little too much, but it's pretty rare. However, I do find a little bit of grain in the treble where I would otherwise like it to be smoother and it's that bit that gets to me more often. Neither are major issues and based on reading comments and reviews from others I'm thinking it's mostly an issue with my particular HRTF.

I'm glad that so many people like them though. There's nothing better for the community as a whole than well-made, competitive, and relatively affordable buds being offered from as many makers/manufacturers in as many "flavors" as possible. I have to say though, even if the FF5s didn't have that particular issue for me, I think the FF3 is where the special sauce lies in Fiio's earbud lineup.

BTW, I have a pair of FF3s at home that I'm almost done modding to MMCX. I didn't get it done because my girl is filming and taking pics to put together written and video guides to doing the mod so I was going slow, we got interrupted, and I never got around to finishing it before I took off. Obviously, I'll post here when I finish it which may be in a few weeks when I'm home for a couple days, but, if not, it won't be until at least may.

I also ordered a couple more pairs because I have a couple mods in mind that I want to try based on a few tricks I have picked up doing DIY builds. I think and MMCX version of the FF3 would make it even better (though I like the stock cable well enough) and if one of the mods I want to try can give it just a touch more upper treble/air without sacrificing the bass, presentation, or timbre then it would be ridiculously close to perfect. I'm stoked to see if I can make it work... we'll see!

 

[baskingshark]

For Smabat fans and DIYers, apparently SMABAT is having a up to 40% off sale on their Aliexpress shop: https://smabat.aliexpress.com/store/1101403519

I've no horse in this race, have stopped buying their gear as not really a fan of their 3 khz icepick house sound, but maybe the rest might be interested.

 

[assassin10000]

@assassin10000 BTW! I forgot to mention (probably) one of the most DF buds that I have. The DUNU Alpha 1. These are not just tuned to be that way (which they certainly are), but if you look at the front of these, they are also designed to be this way. With the BA sound coming from that small sideways firing stem and the lower end coming from the front firing (standard) DD driver, you have no choice but to hear it as a reflection off of your own ears. Staging isn't quite as big as with the Maria II, but they aren't lacking either.

Of course, they are also tuned VERY much DF neutral too (to your definition and mine also ). This combination makes them sound very good (as long as that is the tuning that you are looking for). Since I don't often listen to stuff that this type of sound plays well to, these don't get a lot of ear time for me, but when I do have a mood to use them, they are VERY good at what they do.

In case you forgot the history of these, they came out in 2014, are the first bud to use one DD and one BA transducer, and they are still available. I was truly lucky because I found a seller on Amazon that was looking to move their stock (since they aren't popular anymore), and I got them for something like $39 (I bought these TOTALLY blind), but I think they are worth TOTL pricing as long as people understand that they are indeed not tuned anything like the Harmon curve (and its variations).

A couple of reviews on these:
Here
and:
Here

Spoiler: DUNU Alpha 1 Unboxing Experience

I remember those. I think penon carried them for a while too.


My measured DF neutral like buds may trend towards a headphone DF neutral. It still has a touch of warmth and really good sub-bass extension.

Not the colder, thinner, analytical Ety like DF neutral.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

I remember those. I think penon carried them for a while too.


My measured DF neutral like buds may trend towards a headphone DF neutral. It still has a touch of warmth and really good sub-bass extension.

Not the colder, thinner, analytical Ety like DF neutral.

I bought mine from Penon, but we didn't mesh so they moved on. The hybrid configuration in an earbud is an interesting idea, but the fit/seal requirements to get the best out of the BA seems to be something that Dunu didn't execute all that well for me. Worn like a normal bud, I found them to be pretty lackluster. Worn with their stabilizing fin thing, it was much better, but only if I didn't move and didn't speak, smile, take a drink, etc.

 

[VisalEziomi]

That’s interesting, what store is that? I received confirmation from Penon Audio that they’d been discontinued and couldn’t find any still available.

In taobao . Here is the name shop

 

[JAnonymous5150]

I have a follow up question to your awsome reply
I think that TO600 have really good and comfortable fit in my ears, I can wear them for hours without discomfort.
Do you have any opinions/obeservations regarding fit and comfort of the Yincrows? Preferably compared to Tonekings offerings.

I think the RW-3000s are very comfy. I find the TO600 shell to be pretty comfortable as well, but I think the RW-3000 edges it out for me. It's housing size and cable placement make it so it fits snugly and remains stable even when I'm walking around and doing things while I have them in. One thing I'll add, is that the RW-3000s also do well when worn with the cable over your ear. I personally prefer to wear them cable down, but I have had times when I have been wearing them while doing some physically demanding work or task and I have switched them to over ear at those times with great success.

 

[Gifting]

Umm congrats on your new shiny????? Bummer to hear about your issues though.

Hahaha. I think I’ll avoid prebuilt earbuds with mics in the future.

I thought I was finally satisfied with my retuned riveted 150BG earbuds. Sounded balanced to my ears. Was about to post my tuning on DIY Earbuds. But then I heard the B70’s vocals. I want those vocals in my 150BG earbud now. I ordered different tuning papers and extra horseshoes, I ran out of them. I’ll have to be patient.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

I am sending @Ronion (pretty much) my entire collection of buds so that he can measure them to get a good database that can be reliable. The Maria II will be part of that equation.... I am pretty excited to see how they all fare against one another.

Wow, I can't wait to see how that comes out. That's very cool. It would definitely be cool to have an earbud FR graph database that is centralized and measured on the same rig by a third party (ie not the manufacturers).

 

[samandhi]

Wow, I can't wait to see how that comes out. That's very cool. It would definitely be cool to have an earbud FR graph database that is centralized and measured on the same rig by a third party (ie not the manufacturers).

That, and they will be very consistent. This way, even if they aren't what the manufacturers post for graphs (and they won't be), they can all be seen relative to each other.

 

[davjac84]

I know you didn't ask me, and I also can't speak for the TO600, but I have both sets of Yincrows. I can tell you that (for my ears), they are the best fitting buds I have in my collection (except the FiiO FF3, which fit best and are the most comfortable, even though they are heavy). The bud diameter itself is the same as most other typical buds, but the shell is really small, and seems to be shaped so as to ergonomically sit in your ears for both comfort and for not moving around. I think that designs like this get overlooked a bit as to how well they are designed.

Oh, and let's mention the cable on both sets... They are some of the best cables in the business. They are fairly thick, making them very durable. And they are very soft and pliable. I wish they all sent cables like this with their creations.

Edit: OH! and also because of the shape they both can be worn either down or over ear with little to no sound difference or comfort issues (IMHO).

Sounds promising this Thanks for the input.
The cable will be interesting, I prefer fairly light cables, braided cables are often more heavy, but they are tangle proof which is a big plus.
The ultimate cable would be light, durable and tangle proof. I wonder how such a cable would look like, oh and I wan't mic on my cables...

I think the RW-3000s are very comfy. I find the TO600 shell to be pretty comfortable as well, but I think the RW-3000 edges it out for me. It's housing size and cable placement make it so it fits snugly and remains stable even when I'm walking around and doing things while I have them in. One thing I'll add, is that the RW-3000s also do well when worn with the cable over your ear. I personally prefer to wear them cable down, but I have had times when I have been wearing them while doing some physically demanding work or task and I have switched them to over ear at those times with great success.

Sounds great. I also wear with cable down, but as you say it's good to have the option, maybe it will work out better with this kind of earbuds that are "built" that way.
Thanks for your input.
The more I hear of RW-3000 the more it get's apparent that I must have them

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Sounds promising this Thanks for the input.
The cable will be interesting, I prefer fairly light cables, braided cables are often more heavy, but they are tangle proof which is a big plus.
The ultimate cable would be light, durable and tangle proof. I wonder how such a cable would look like, oh and I wan't mic on my cables...

Sounds great. I also wear with cable down, but as you say it's good to have the option, maybe it will work out better with this kind of earbuds that are "built" that way.
Thanks for your input.
The more I hear of RW-3000 the more it get's apparent that I must have them

If you do end up scoring a pair of the RW-3000s make sure you come back here and let me/us know how they work out for you. BTW, the cable that comes with them is very nice quality and I don't find it to be that heavy either. That said, one of the cool things about MMCX buds like the 3000s is that you can change to whatever cable you want.