[JAnonymous5150]

@assassin10000 : I forgot to mention, I created a bud named the Assassin 40 Cal out of the 40ohm Ti drivers you sent me. When I get my bud collection out of my bads at the next stop I'll see about snappin' a pic or two to post. They are the 40 Ti drivers in a cutoff MX500 style shell with mmcz connectors. I was surprised at how smooth the sound came out. They have an addictive liquid smoothness to their presentation that I absolutely love.

 

[assassin10000]

Yeah, that's what I think of when I think DF neutral as well and, no, the RW-3000s aren't DF neutral. They do present a well balanced sound that really doesn't emphasize or favor any one area much over the others. They have a modest bass boost and modest treble boost, but the mids don't come off as recessed at all and both are tastefully and conservatively done.

I tend to need some level of boosting to the ends of the spectrum in a versatile bud for my preferences and the RE-3000s nail that. A DF neutral bud would be a specialist bud for me/my music library. FWIW, I think the Maria IIs, that samandhi mentioned, are closer to that, but I think their upper mid to treble region has areas that are boosted above DF neutral, sometimes significantly. At least to my ear anyways. I've never looked up FR graphs on them or anything.

There probably isn't any.

And they wouldn't be very useful if there were, as there's no real standard measuring method either.

 

[VisalEziomi]

I see the Rose Maria II is still available. Is it best earbuds for soundstage and watching movie?

 

[yaps66]

Dude, you are about to have a TON of earbud fun! Those are literally two of my all time favorite buds. Make sure you let us know what you think of them, okay?

Will do! I am looking forward to some quality time with them!

 

[JAnonymous5150]

I see the Rose Maria II is still available. Is it best earbuds for soundstage and watching movie?

For soundstage it's pretty high up there, but for my tastes it doesn't have enough bass or the right overall presentation for movies with a lot of action. However, for movies with less action and a lot of orchestral music scores the Maria IIs could be pretty sick.

Edit: They'll probably still be available for a while as stores sell off their remaining stock. Being discontinued just means that they won't be making anymore.

 

[VisalEziomi]

For soundstage it's pretty high up there, but for my tastes it doesn't have enough bass or the right overall presentation for movies with a lot of action. However, for movies with less action and a lot of orchestral music scores the Maria IIs could be pretty sick.

Edit: They'll probably still be available for a while as stores sell off their remaining stock. Being discontinued just means that they won't be making anymore.

which's earbuds has biggest soundstage and good bass for like action movie ?

 

[yaps66]

which's earbuds has biggest soundstage and good bass for like action movie ?

FiiO FF3 for me!

 

[davjac84]

Yeah! That's what I said thousands of dollars ago... LOL

Sounds like the same that has an (iron) (grip) on me...

 

[JAnonymous5150]

which's earbuds has biggest soundstage and good bass for like action movie ?

Totally agree with @yaps66 . I own a lot of buds, but the bass and the massive presentation on the FF3s are great for watching action flicks. I also enjoy watching with the Simphonio Dragon 3s and the Cypherus Audio Black Edition Custom Retunes I have, but both of those are quite a bit more expensive.

Since we were just talking about them, the RW-3000s are pretty good for movies too and are great for being able to understand dialogue. I have also watched movies with the Penon Audio BS1 Officials and they were pretty good too. I can also imagine that the FF5s would give a good movie watching experience as would their predecessors, the EM5s, if you can find a pair used.

All of that said, the FF3s are the best for explosions, gunshots, car chases, and similar action in movies in my books.

 

[davjac84]

Okay, so just starting with some basic observations here:

First, the RW-3000s are really a step above the other two IMO. They are more highly resolving and I find them to have the right combination of musicality (a touch of warmth), extension at both ends of the frequency, near perfect balance in tuning, and TOTL technicalities. Honestly, the RW-3000s can hold their own with the best of the best. They can be all-rounders for multi-genre listening, incisive and detailed for critical listening, or musically engaging for enveloping sessions. In my experience, there are VERY few buds that you can say that about.

The FF5s set out to be something like the RW-3000s and they do a good job for less money, but they fall short in several areas and end up being a good all-rounder, available at a good price, but nothing special in the end. The FF5s have decent technical performance, but I don't find it to be anything outstanding and they actually have good extension at both ends. The bass is punchy and reasonably articulate, but it doesn't have that final bit of authority that you find at the next level where note edges are sharp and details and nuances in the low end are reproduced capably and naturally. The bass on the FF5s lacks just that final bit of dynamic ability so it can come off a bit "one notey" especially as the tracks get more demanding and more musically and dynamically complex. The Mids on the FF5s are good, perhaps favoring the upper mids like female vocals a touch, but overall coming across detailed, clear, and very capable, and are my favorite part of the FF5s tuning. The treble extends well and provides nice air and detail, but I think it also can be a bit to low treble heavy and, whether because of a peak somewhere or the little bit if roughness/grain I detect, I find it to be a bit fatiguing on brighter tracks. Resolution, separation and imaging are all above average, but, as I mentioned before, nothing special/elite. The soundstage is pretty wide, but not as deep and doesn't have as much height as I would like which I think impacts it's layering abilities a bit making them pretty average.

The TO600 is an interesting earbud. It is the least well rounded of the three and the most source dependent/sensitive as well. It also can be a bit picky when it comes to musical genres and it has some character, so to speak. I find that the TO600 favors sources with some warmth to them and with a good bit of muscle, for obvious reason. I find that they pair perfectly with my TRI TK-2 which is a dual es9038q2m dac with a class AB amplifier section that becomes class A past 60% on the dial. That class a power and warmth really brings out the best in the TO600 so the rest of my comments assume that you have a source that you find has good synergy with these buds.

The technical abilities of the TO600 are all in the same neighborhood as the FF5. It's resolution, separation, and imaging are similarly above average, but, also similarly, nothing outstanding. It's soundstage is about the same width as the FF5 (maybe a touch more), but it has greater depth and has the additional height necessary to give the TO600 the edge in layering capabilities. As for tuning, the FF5 has a more refined overall profile that makes it a better all-rounder, IMO. The bass on the TO600 has reasonable presence and a decent midbass thump to it, but it doesn't reach as low as either of the other buds and it isn't as articulate/agile so on busier tracks it can get bogged down and start to lose some definition. The mids are interesting in that they lend plenty of body to the lower half, but they also can get a bit shouty on the uppers and female vocals in particular. Because of this character the mids become a bit of a Jekyll and Hide for me where they either nail a track and do very well or they miss pretty badly. It's this mid range performance that has a lot to do with which genres it clicks with and which it doesn't. The highs are actually pretty well extended and inoffensive at the same time. They could use some smoothing and refinement, but overall I find the highs to be pretty well done.

In the end, if you have the money to spend then the RW-3000s are really the best buds of the bunch and not by a little bit either. Then again, they should be, as they are the most expensive by quite a bit too. I think the RW-3000s are worth the cash and you'd have to pry mine from my cold, dead fingers. If you don't want to lay out that kinda scrill (shout out to my homeys in Oakland. I haven't heard anyone say scrill or scrilla in a cool minute lol ) then you have to ask yourself what you're looking for. The FF5s are the better all-rounder and they are significantly easier to drive and pair with just about any competent source. The TO600s can be very good with the right source and the right music library.

Anyways, I hope this was helpful. Please ignore any typos as this was typed on a smartphone by a tired dude with big thumbs in a moving vehicle. I might go back and spell check/proofread, but I might not. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

Edit: Caught a couple spelling and grammatical errors.

Wow, this were quite in depth descriptions/comparison, wonderful!
Really helpful
Sounds like I must invest in RW-3000, I'm so excited to try them out and see for myself if I also think that they are that good
If/when I buy them/get them I will give my short impressions here

 

[ttorbic]

FF5 review by Headfonia: https://www.headfonia.com/fiio-ff5-review/4/

 

[agonynine]

I see the Rose Maria II is still available. Is it best earbuds for soundstage and watching movie?

That’s interesting, what store is that? I received confirmation from Penon Audio that they’d been discontinued and couldn’t find any still available.

 

[chavez]

@assassin10000 : I forgot to mention, I created a bud named the Assassin 40 Cal out of the 40ohm Ti drivers you sent me. When I get my bud collection out of my bads at the next stop I'll see about snappin' a pic or two to post. They are the 40 Ti drivers in a cutoff MX500 style shell with mmcz connectors. I was surprised at how smooth the sound came out. They have an addictive liquid smoothness to their presentation that I absolutely love.

Have you braided the cable yourself or its a premade cable?

 

[samandhi]

That’s unfortunate to hear. This is actually my second pair of B70s. The first pair only had the left side working (side without the mic). I returned it, got a refund, and reordered it again. The earbuds are supposed to have a 16 Ohm resistance.

Funnily, the difference in measured impedance between both buds is 32 ohms (17-49).

I don’t know if I should contact them again or take the loss. Oh well. It’s a good thing I got them on a deal, not much of a loss!

Edit: I broke the right earbud when taking them apart the 2nd time. I’ll take the loss.

Umm congrats on your new shiny????? Bummer to hear about your issues though.

There probably isn't any.

And they wouldn't be very useful if there were, as there's no real standard measuring method either.

I am sending @Ronion (pretty much) my entire collection of buds so that he can measure them to get a good database that can be reliable. The Maria II will be part of that equation.... I am pretty excited to see how they all fare against one another.

I see the Rose Maria II is still available. Is it best earbuds for soundstage and watching movie?

That is a pretty good deal for them. Normally they are over $400....

I think that the Maria II have the best soundstage (still), and they are indeed very good for watching movies. No the bass isn't boosted like some of the others that were suggested but (and this might just be my ears being different from others here) these DO have a lot of subbass when called for. The mid bass isn't boosted, so there isn't quite as much punch overall; the bass is much more linear across the board. But these can reach much lower and have deeper sounding bass than the others mentioned (except maybe for the FF3, they really do have amazing bass presentation). Now, when called for it does indeed have pretty big bass.

Voices are very clear, and what boosted presence there is is pretty much nullified while watching a movie. Of course, I had to break them out again and watch a movie to be able to speak from knowledge, rather than possible memory bias (Star Trek: The Search for Spock).

Having said all of that, the others are right insomuch as they would all make great movie watchers, but IMHO I don't think they can reach the "out of head" experience that the Maria II (and the Chaconne) can/do reach. If that is very important to you, these can't be matched at this point.

With the way technology has progressed, I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the ones discussed here.

 

[davjac84]

Okay, so just starting with some basic observations here:

First, the RW-3000s are really a step above the other two IMO. They are more highly resolving and I find them to have the right combination of musicality (a touch of warmth), extension at both ends of the frequency, near perfect balance in tuning, and TOTL technicalities. Honestly, the RW-3000s can hold their own with the best of the best. They can be all-rounders for multi-genre listening, incisive and detailed for critical listening, or musically engaging for enveloping sessions. In my experience, there are VERY few buds that you can say that about.

The FF5s set out to be something like the RW-3000s and they do a good job for less money, but they fall short in several areas and end up being a good all-rounder, available at a good price, but nothing special in the end. The FF5s have decent technical performance, but I don't find it to be anything outstanding and they actually have good extension at both ends. The bass is punchy and reasonably articulate, but it doesn't have that final bit of authority that you find at the next level where note edges are sharp and details and nuances in the low end are reproduced capably and naturally. The bass on the FF5s lacks just that final bit of dynamic ability so it can come off a bit "one notey" especially as the tracks get more demanding and more musically and dynamically complex. The Mids on the FF5s are good, perhaps favoring the upper mids like female vocals a touch, but overall coming across detailed, clear, and very capable, and are my favorite part of the FF5s tuning. The treble extends well and provides nice air and detail, but I think it also can be a bit to low treble heavy and, whether because of a peak somewhere or the little bit if roughness/grain I detect, I find it to be a bit fatiguing on brighter tracks. Resolution, separation and imaging are all above average, but, as I mentioned before, nothing special/elite. The soundstage is pretty wide, but not as deep and doesn't have as much height as I would like which I think impacts it's layering abilities a bit making them pretty average.

The TO600 is an interesting earbud. It is the least well rounded of the three and the most source dependent/sensitive as well. It also can be a bit picky when it comes to musical genres and it has some character, so to speak. I find that the TO600 favors sources with some warmth to them and with a good bit of muscle, for obvious reason. I find that they pair perfectly with my TRI TK-2 which is a dual es9038q2m dac with a class AB amplifier section that becomes class A past 60% on the dial. That class a power and warmth really brings out the best in the TO600 so the rest of my comments assume that you have a source that you find has good synergy with these buds.

The technical abilities of the TO600 are all in the same neighborhood as the FF5. It's resolution, separation, and imaging are similarly above average, but, also similarly, nothing outstanding. It's soundstage is about the same width as the FF5 (maybe a touch more), but it has greater depth and has the additional height necessary to give the TO600 the edge in layering capabilities. As for tuning, the FF5 has a more refined overall profile that makes it a better all-rounder, IMO. The bass on the TO600 has reasonable presence and a decent midbass thump to it, but it doesn't reach as low as either of the other buds and it isn't as articulate/agile so on busier tracks it can get bogged down and start to lose some definition. The mids are interesting in that they lend plenty of body to the lower half, but they also can get a bit shouty on the uppers and female vocals in particular. Because of this character the mids become a bit of a Jekyll and Hide for me where they either nail a track and do very well or they miss pretty badly. It's this mid range performance that has a lot to do with which genres it clicks with and which it doesn't. The highs are actually pretty well extended and inoffensive at the same time. They could use some smoothing and refinement, but overall I find the highs to be pretty well done.

In the end, if you have the money to spend then the RW-3000s are really the best buds of the bunch and not by a little bit either. Then again, they should be, as they are the most expensive by quite a bit too. I think the RW-3000s are worth the cash and you'd have to pry mine from my cold, dead fingers. If you don't want to lay out that kinda scrill (shout out to my homeys in Oakland. I haven't heard anyone say scrill or scrilla in a cool minute lol ) then you have to ask yourself what you're looking for. The FF5s are the better all-rounder and they are significantly easier to drive and pair with just about any competent source. The TO600s can be very good with the right source and the right music library.

Anyways, I hope this was helpful. Please ignore any typos as this was typed on a smartphone by a tired dude with big thumbs in a moving vehicle. I might go back and spell check/proofread, but I might not. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

Edit: Caught a couple spelling and grammatical errors.

I have a follow up question to your awsome reply
I think that TO600 have really good and comfortable fit in my ears, I can wear them for hours without discomfort.
Do you have any opinions/obeservations regarding fit and comfort of the Yincrows? Preferably compared to Tonekings offerings.