[thedjkhalid]

I’m working on a review of M4. Smabat has already sent me a replacement set but the channel imbalance is still there, so I think it is a design flaw.

Tuning filters don’t do as much as I hope. Essentially, the lower the filter type, the higher midbass hump AND ear-gain becomes with a deeper dip around 1kHz. Type 1 and Type 2 filters do not change much. Type 3 dampens the ear gain reasonably, but the bass is also reduced and the tonality of some drivers becomes kind of odd. In no configuration you can change significantly from the Smabat house sound.

Removing the filter can intensify the channel imbalance effect, so I don’t recommend.

Yeah I definitely won't be messing with the filters in that case.

 

[Buchi]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832774652645.html - NSC Audio is a known entity - I haven't personally heard of the seller that you linked.

Bell shape shells or Qian39 Shell will be more comfortable than MX500 - NSC Audio has a bunch of selections for bell shaped shells - as for Qian39 shells, that has to be harvested from buying an actual Qian39 bud!

I noticed there is another 600ohm by the same store. I'm wondering what the difference is between the two.

The link to the driver https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNlfmxA

 

[barato]

seems like it's the same driver

 

[drewbadour]

I noticed there is another 600ohm by the same store. I'm wondering what the difference is between the two.

The link to the driver https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNlfmxA

It is the same driver! They must have accidentally created two listings.

 

[Ronion]

2 different drivers, 2 different shells, and 2 different tuning approaches. Can anyone tell the tonal differences between the 2? Now can anyone tell the resolution and soundstage? This is how useful graphs are.

 

[baskingshark]

2 different drivers, 2 different shells, and 2 different tuning approaches. Can anyone tell the tonal differences between the 2? Now can anyone tell the resolution and soundstage? This is how useful graphs are.

Yeah graphs are useful to tell the rough tonality and FR of a transducer, but it doesn't tell the full story.

Standard graphs can't really inform us 100% on a transducer's technicalities - soundstage, timbral accuracy, transients, imaging, instrument separation. Some of these can perhaps be hinted but not 100% confirmed until listening. I guess graphs are a good gatekeeper to see if you will like or dislike the tonality, but other than that, it ain't telling everything.

For example, for IEMs, 2 graphs can graph similarly, but BA bass and DD bass in general sound very different, even if the graphs show the same amount of bass quantities. Generally, BA bass sounds lacking in decay and movement of air, unless if it is vented.

2 IEMs can graph similarly, one has BA timbre due to BAs used, while a single DD of the same graph may sound more natural for acoustic instruments.

The TOTL Final Audio A8000 graphs similarly to the KZ ZSN Pro. But the A8000 is leagues ahead in timbral accuracy and technicalities (soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, micro-detailing, transients).

Tonally, while the Olina and Oxygen are similar as the graphs suggest, on actual A/B testing, the Oxygen sounds smoother, being less bright/sibilant and causing less fatigue than the Olina during longer listening sessions. In terms of timbral accuracy, the Oxygen is more natural sounding, with the Olina sounding nasal. The Olina also has a less tight bass; the low frequencies sound a bit undefined and lacking texture compared to the tighter and cleaner bass of the Oxygen.



I've met some folks on forums that claim they can EQ any IEM to sound like a TOTL IEM. Well if that were the case, why not just buy a $1 budget bin IEM and EQ it to a QDC Anole VX and call it a day? Some transducers cannot take too robust EQ and distort, and you can't EQ away bad timbre or technicalities.

 

[Ronion]

Yeah graphs are useful to tell the rough tonality and FR of a transducer, but it doesn't tell the full story.

Standard graphs can't really inform us 100% on a transducer's technicalities - soundstage, timbral accuracy, transients, imaging, instrument separation. Some of these can perhaps be hinted but not 100% confirmed until listening. I guess graphs are a good gatekeeper to see if you will like or dislike the tonality, but other than that, it ain't telling everything.

For example, for IEMs, 2 graphs can graph similarly, but BA bass and DD bass in general sound very different, even if the graphs show the same amount of bass quantities. Generally, BA bass sounds lacking in decay and movement of air, unless if it is vented.

2 IEMs can graph similarly, one has BA timbre due to BAs used, while a single DD of the same graph may sound more natural for acoustic instruments.



The TOTL Final Audio A8000 graphs similarly to the KZ ZSN Pro. But the A8000 is leagues ahead in timbral accuracy and technicalities (soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, micro-detailing, transients).



Tonally, while the Olina and Oxygen are similar as the graphs suggest, on actual A/B testing, the Oxygen sounds smoother, being less bright/sibilant and causing less fatigue than the Olina during longer listening sessions. In terms of timbral accuracy, the Oxygen is more natural sounding, with the Olina sounding nasal. The Olina also has a less tight bass; the low frequencies sound a bit undefined and lacking texture compared to the tighter and cleaner bass of the Oxygen.



I've met some folks on forums that claim they can EQ any IEM to sound like a TOTL IEM. Well if that were the case, why not just buy a $1 budget bin IEM and EQ it to a QDC Anole VX and call it a day? Some transducers cannot take too robust EQ and distort, and you can't EQ away bad timbre or technicalities.

Exactly . Beautifully stated!

 

[o0genesis0o]

Yeah graphs are useful to tell the rough tonality and FR of a transducer, but it doesn't tell the full story.

Standard graphs can't really inform us 100% on a transducer's technicalities - soundstage, timbral accuracy, transients, imaging, instrument separation. Some of these can perhaps be hinted but not 100% confirmed until listening. I guess graphs are a good gatekeeper to see if you will like or dislike the tonality, but other than that, it ain't telling everything.

For example, for IEMs, 2 graphs can graph similarly, but BA bass and DD bass in general sound very different, even if the graphs show the same amount of bass quantities. Generally, BA bass sounds lacking in decay and movement of air, unless if it is vented.

2 IEMs can graph similarly, one has BA timbre due to BAs used, while a single DD of the same graph may sound more natural for acoustic instruments.



The TOTL Final Audio A8000 graphs similarly to the KZ ZSN Pro. But the A8000 is leagues ahead in timbral accuracy and technicalities (soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, micro-detailing, transients).



Tonally, while the Olina and Oxygen are similar as the graphs suggest, on actual A/B testing, the Oxygen sounds smoother, being less bright/sibilant and causing less fatigue than the Olina during longer listening sessions. In terms of timbral accuracy, the Oxygen is more natural sounding, with the Olina sounding nasal. The Olina also has a less tight bass; the low frequencies sound a bit undefined and lacking texture compared to the tighter and cleaner bass of the Oxygen.



I've met some folks on forums that claim they can EQ any IEM to sound like a TOTL IEM. Well if that were the case, why not just buy a $1 budget bin IEM and EQ it to a QDC Anole VX and call it a day? Some transducers cannot take too robust EQ and distort, and you can't EQ away bad timbre or technicalities.

Did you read my mind? I was thinking about the guy who came and made fun of folks at Final Audio thread that their precious A8000 graphs like a KZ

 

[Ronion]

You can definitely tell a lot about the experience of commenters when they think you can EQ one speaker to sound exactly like another. They do believe what they say. Problem is: other people without much experience will read scientific sounding commentators say it’s all visible in the frequency response and can be inclined to believe them. Both sides of this coin are confused and mucking this up for sanity: the ones who say measurements are useless and the ones that say measurements are everything. The problem really lies in the difficulties of isolating what variables lead to a perception of detail or soundstage. Maybe that research has been done, but I don’t know of it. I’m sure Sennheiser has worked on it with some degree of success and came up with the HD800, but they’re not making this information publicly available that I’m aware of…. I know some things that have worked for me, but wether it’s not some other factor is impossible for me to say.

 

[o0genesis0o]

You can definitely tell a lot about the experience of commenters when they think you can EQ one speaker to sound exactly like another. They do believe what they say. Problem is: other people without much experience and read scientific sounding commentators say it’s all visible in the frequency response and can be inclined to believe them. Both sides of this coin are confused and mucking this up for sanity: the ones who say measurements are useless and the ones that say measurements are everything. The problem really lies in the difficulties of isolating what variables lead to a perception of detail or soundstage. Maybe that research has been done, but I don’t know of it. I’m sure Sennheiser has worked on it with some degree of success and came up with the HD800, but they’re not making this information publicly available that I’m aware of…. I know some things that have worked for me, but wether it’s not some other factor is impossible for me to say.

Seeing you reminds me to share with you this video from Knowles:


Interestingly enough, the treble / air preference (deviations from Harman) closely matches what some IEMs companies like 64 Audio have been doing for a while. Essentially, if you want "hi-fi" sound, boost 16k quite a bit But do not let the boost reaches all the way to 8k, though, otherwise you will have horrible metallic sound like old KZ IEMs.

Edit: my coupler definitely not built for the purpose, so no idea how correct it is. However, I always see deep 10k notch and 16k peak across all of my earbud measurements. The secret behind earbuds soundstage imaging? Who knows. They sound good.

Edit 2: I did some "tests" with my colleagues (casual listeners) and found that most of them do not find earbuds hi-fi or "audiophile" regardless of FF3 or VE Master. But all of them were immediately impressed by Moondrop Blessing 2 (Harman-ish with great isolation) and said that they are willing to pay AUD $450 for that kind of sound. I don't know the conclusion nor the point, but I find the whole "test" interesting

 

[Ronion]

I'm not surprised. I used to boost that region when I was into IEM by 3dB, but I used a little narrower Q on pretty much every IEM I have. Some I only boosted 1 or 2 dB, but generally 3.

 

[Ronion]

Seeing you reminds me to share with you this video from Knowles:


Interestingly enough, the treble / air preference (deviations from Harman) closely matches what some IEMs companies like 64 Audio have been doing for a while. Essentially, if you want "hi-fi" sound, boost 16k quite a bit But do not let the boost reaches all the way to 8k, though, otherwise you will have horrible metallic sound like old KZ IEMs.

Edit: my coupler definitely not built for the purpose, so no idea how correct it is. However, I always see deep 10k notch and 16k peak across all of my earbud measurements. The secret behind earbuds soundstage imaging? Who knows. They sound good.

Edit 2: I did some "tests" with my colleagues (casual listeners) and found that most of them do not find earbuds hi-fi or "audiophile" regardless of FF3 or VE Master. But all of them were immediately impressed by Moondrop Blessing 2 (Harman-ish with great isolation) and said that they are willing to pay AUD $450 for that kind of sound. I don't know the conclusion nor the point, but I find the whole "test" interesting

It also tells us that the Harman Curve isn’t the “end all, be all” when it comes to preference either. It’s definitely not ”reference“…. Under the given parameters, 69% of the people preferred it. That’s really all it tells us. As cool as it is that under those unusual circumstances with the world’s worst IEM (kidding), most people liked the same thing. Still, that just doesn’t tell us too much, but it’s further along than we’ve been before in the headphone world.

 

[cqtek]

Hello to all.

I just posted my humble opinion on the Smabat M4.

I hope you like it.

I wish you all a happy Halloween. Or, failing that, whatever local holiday you celebrate in your country. In mine this Halloween is a foreign holiday and our celebration is different. But advertising invades everything and the "foreign novelty" is imposed on traditions. A pity.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m4.26146/reviews#review-29471

 

[o0genesis0o]

Hello to all.

I just posted my humble opinion on the Smabat M4.

I hope you like it.

I wish you all a happy Halloween. Or, failing that, whatever local holiday you celebrate in your country. In mine this Halloween is a foreign holiday and our celebration is different. But advertising invades everything and the "foreign novelty" is imposed on traditions. A pity.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-m4.26146/reviews#review-29471

Mate, you are fast I’m sitting here with all the drivers, procrastinating for weeks now.

Some points:

• Absolutely agree about the transparent and crisp midrange. I hate it less after spending more time listening to it seriously with the Type 3 filter.
• The type 2.5 filter is included in new batch of filters now.
• I think some drivers that are hard to screw on are defective, either at the threads or the o-ring. Smabat sent me a replacement set of all drivers, and the ones with black o-rings work well. The ones with white o-rings are still troublesome.

Edit: something is wrong with your BA pair? My unit has nice channel matching all the way down.

 

[cqtek]

Mate, you are fast I’m sitting here with all the drivers, procrastinating for weeks now.

Some points:

• Absolutely agree about the transparent and crisp midrange. I hate it less after spending more time listening to it seriously with the Type 3 filter.
• The type 2.5 filter is included in new batch of filters now.
• I think some drivers that are hard to screw on are defective, either at the threads or the o-ring. Smabat sent me a replacement set of all drivers, and the ones with black o-rings work well. The ones with white o-rings are still troublesome.

Thank you for the added notes.
It's nice to see that they included the 2.5 type damper in the new parts.
It's also good that they have improved the screw, I still think one more turn would have been safer. But aluminium is still a "soft" material in that respect.