[o0genesis0o]

What are the best earbuds for orchestral music such as Mahler symphonies? A few options at different price bands would be very much appreciated

I like FF3 for orchestral music more than anything else in my collection, be it IEM or headphone. These buds lend cellos and bass strength to form the back bone of a symphony or concerto. I have great time listening to Mozart Requiem as well as modern compositions like Skyrim soundtracks.

I wish everyone would do a little DIY. Last night after tearing down a garage, tired and sore, I drank 9%ABV beer, and in less than 10 minutes in a dimly lit room built and tuned the 600Ohm Be drivers with less than $40 spent to an approximation of my curve. I used my dirty old HeiGi foams for the tuning because I want to know what these things are going to sound like when they reach their steady state. They are a knockout! Separation, clarity, composure, warmth and soundstage is all there. A completely fatigue-free sound that can play anything optimally (approximately) barring hiphop or some electronica. Even then it has enough power handling that it’s not horrible. I can get these to sound a little closer to perfect, but my tuning supplies are running short and my desire to fiddle is low. I wish everyone would just buy a TOTL driver and have a go. I messed around with a lot of cheap ones to get comfortable, but it’s largely unnecessary. One or 2 practice runs for due diligence and then go for it.

I need to try those drivers. Since your target is similar to FF3 response and you can hit that without any extra holes, vents, rivets, etc., I am very curious about those drivers now.

I managed to squeeze the most out of the 64 ohm Ti composite drivers now, but it involved a lot of prototyping and measurements. In the end, I needed large back vent (3mm), tuning filter on the vent, double horse shoes. The result is okay for me, particularly the soundstage, but the bass is not FF3 good.

 

[mt877]

My cable isn't like that. It's straight from the split up. No twist in the jacket at all. I noticed this last night, but apparently forgot to post about it. Interesting...

Hmm, maybe you got a pre-production cable and the rest of us got the production ones?

 

[samandhi]

Hmm, maybe you got a pre-production cable and the rest of us got the production ones?

Either way (straight or cork screwed) I would take this cable over any of the previous cables Smabat has sent with their buds. It is more akin to something that FiiO would put out, rather than the typical Smabat IMHO.

For me, it just completes the package.

Having said that, I have found that these (again to my ears) are piercing on all my DAPs except one. Of all things, it is NOT at all on my stinky phone (Samsung Note 9). LOL

These are the DAPs I have tested them with:

• iBasso DX300 (Amp11.2 card, Amp12 card, Amp13 Nutube card)
• iBasso DX160
• FiiO (OG) X5
• FiiO X3II
• iPod Touch 6th gen
• iPod Touch 3rd Gen
• iPod Nano
• Shanling M0

They ARE getting a bit better (or I am getting deafer lol) because I can listen to some songs that I could not in the beginning, though still at lower levels. I REALLY want to love these because like @Ronion said about the ST20 Pro, they DO sound damn good, if they didn't hurt my ears.

 

[mt877]

Either way (straight or cork screwed) I would take this cable over any of the previous cables Smabat has sent with their buds. It is more akin to something that FiiO would put out, rather than the typical Smabat IMHO.

For me, it just completes the package.

Having said that, I have found that these (again to my ears) are piercing on all my DAPs except one. Of all things, it is NOT at all on my stinky phone (Samsung Note 9). LOL

These are the DAPs I have tested them with:

• iBasso DX300 (Amp11.2 card, Amp12 card, Amp13 Nutube card)
• iBasso DX160
• FiiO (OG) X5
• FiiO X3II
• iPod Touch 6th gen
• iPod Touch 3rd Gen
• iPod Nano
• Shanling M0

They ARE getting a bit better (or I am getting deafer lol) because I can listen to some songs that I could not in the beginning, though still at lower levels. I REALLY want to love these because like @Ronion said about the ST20 Pro, they DO sound damn good, if they didn't hurt my ears.

I was just joking with the cable response to @JAnonymous5150. I'm fairly certain the cable will relax and straighten out. I do like the cable provided with the ST10s B&G buds.

Wow, your hearing must be pretty sensitive to the high end. Are you using the stock Smabat foams? Did you try the FF3 bass or HieGi foams? How about a double stack, like full foam covered by a donut foam? @DBaldock9 said he had good success with HieGi foams on the Super One drivers.

 

[samandhi]

I was just joking with the cable response to @JAnonymous5150. I'm fairly certain the cable will relax and straighten out. I do like the cable provided with the ST10s B&G buds.

Wow, your hearing must be pretty sensitive to the high end. Are you using the stock Smabat foams? Did you try the FF3 bass or HieGi foams? How about a double stack, like full foam covered by a donut foam? @DBaldock9 said he had good success with HieGi foams on the Super One drivers.

Yeah, I like the stock cable with the ST10S B&G too, but just not as much as the one with the M4. I really liked the cable with the M2s Pro also, but again it is lacking beside the M4 IMO...

It isn't the high end, it is the upper mids (right at 2.5K, or very close to that) and it is pretty narrow, so it doesn't change the overall tonality. I actually wouldn't mind them having a bit more treble at 5K and maybe even a high shelf at 12K or so.

I have no other buds that are that harsh/agressive to me besides the Maria II (and maybe the Alpha1 are close). I have been using the FiiO bass foams on them. I have tried all sorts of tuning things to bring this down (short of EQ and I have done that too).

I tried double foams, and a silicone tip, then a foam over that. I tried ear hooks, hoping to bring them closer to my ear canals because when I press them pretty hard into my ears it brings up the rest of the sound (though the piercing remains the same). I have even tried all of the above at the same time.. LOL

Using a simple graphical EQ I can bring 2K down by 7dB and it is gone, but then they don't sound as good... I am in a dilemma here.... ROFL

In fairness, songs that don't have much in this region aren't bad at all (R&B except that fake clap they (over)used in the 80's, etc...) but female voices, and male high voices, and any sort of electric guitar playing high notes (basically most of the music that I enjoy the most lol), etc...

 

[mt877]

Yeah, I like the stock cable with the ST10S B&G too, but just not as much as the one with the M4. I really liked the cable with the M2s Pro also, but again it is lacking beside the M4 IMO...

It isn't the high end, it is the upper mids (right at 2.5K, or very close to that) and it is pretty narrow, so it doesn't change the overall tonality. I actually wouldn't mind them having a bit more treble at 5K and maybe even a high shelf at 12K or so.

I have no other buds that are that harsh/agressive to me besides the Maria II (and maybe the Alpha1 are close). I have been using the FiiO bass foams on them. I have tried all sorts of tuning things to bring this down (short of EQ and I have done that too).

I tried double foams, and a silicone tip, then a foam over that. I tried ear hooks, hoping to bring them closer to my ear canals because when I press them pretty hard into my ears it brings up the rest of the sound (though the piercing remains the same). I have even tried all of the above at the same time.. LOL

Using a simple graphical EQ I can bring 2K down by 7dB and it is gone, but then they don't sound as good... I am in a dilemma here.... ROFL

In fairness, songs that don't have much in this region aren't bad at all (R&B except that fake clap they (over)used in the 80's, etc...) but female voices, and male high voices, and any sort of electric guitar playing high notes (basically most of the music that I enjoy the most lol), etc...

It's tuning damper time then. The graph shows the damper will affect that 2.5 to 3K range.
I still haven't messed with them yet. I'm not being affected like you are and a bit too busy with other things right now.

 

[JAnonymous5150]

Yeah, I like the stock cable with the ST10S B&G too, but just not as much as the one with the M4. I really liked the cable with the M2s Pro also, but again it is lacking beside the M4 IMO...

It isn't the high end, it is the upper mids (right at 2.5K, or very close to that) and it is pretty narrow, so it doesn't change the overall tonality. I actually wouldn't mind them having a bit more treble at 5K and maybe even a high shelf at 12K or so.

I have no other buds that are that harsh/agressive to me besides the Maria II (and maybe the Alpha1 are close). I have been using the FiiO bass foams on them. I have tried all sorts of tuning things to bring this down (short of EQ and I have done that too).

I tried double foams, and a silicone tip, then a foam over that. I tried ear hooks, hoping to bring them closer to my ear canals because when I press them pretty hard into my ears it brings up the rest of the sound (though the piercing remains the same). I have even tried all of the above at the same time.. LOL

Using a simple graphical EQ I can bring 2K down by 7dB and it is gone, but then they don't sound as good... I am in a dilemma here.... ROFL

In fairness, songs that don't have much in this region aren't bad at all (R&B except that fake clap they (over)used in the 80's, etc...) but female voices, and male high voices, and any sort of electric guitar playing high notes (basically most of the music that I enjoy the most lol), etc...

That sucks, bro. Though, it makes perfect sense. I have had buds, IEMs, and headphones I have either owned or demoed that had a peak in very specific areas that makes listening uncomfortable for me, but boosting the entire range by that same amount or moving that peak sufficiently higher or lower and the discomfort goes away. Peaks can often make listening unbearable even in areas a person isn't traditionally sensitive to.

 

[o0genesis0o]

It's tuning damper time then. The graph shows the damper will affect that 2.5 to 3K range.
I still haven't messed with them yet. I'm not being affected like you are and a bit too busy with other things right now.

It seems that the operation of these damping filters are kind of similar to the filter at the back of my DIY (photo). If the bass hole (or the whole bass tube in case of M4?) is wide open, both bass and upper midrange would be very loud, with a large dip around 1.25k. The more you dampen the hole, the more you can flatten the frequency response. If you choke the drivers even further, eventually the mid bass starts to drop. I like to use this trick on Letshuoer S12 for a "tighter" bass response.

 

[samandhi]

It's tuning damper time then. The graph shows the damper will affect that 2.5 to 3K range.
I still haven't messed with them yet. I'm not being affected like you are and a bit too busy with other things right now.

Yessir! I have them on order. Thanks! I even used a 10 band graphic EQ (in Neutron) and did some rough subtraction to see at what frequencies and how far away they are from one another on type three and type one, and then input either subtractive or additive to match the difference in the tuning using the damper (assuming their graph is correct), and it DOES sound better in that region, but sounds pretty odd for the rest. We'll see... I am bound and determined to find a solution for these.

I even looked at maybe adding some materials in the shell but looking at them (and this could be part of the problem) I see there is no room behind the driver at all, except through the port hole on the whole back side of the shell. I suspect that these will be fairly polarizing in how they sound to people because for these it appears that the ear itself is being used for acoustics more so than most other buds I have seen.

I am not sure when I became so damned sensitive to this region. I NEVER had any issues when I was much younger with ANY head gear. It either sounded good to me or not.. LOL

Anyhow, I will try and only post positive comments about them from now on (or at least not about the agressive(ness) I am hearing), because I don't wanna' "cry" about it over and over, and there ARE some REALLY good things going on with these, they just haven't been my focus when posting thus far. Those things also need to be said for potential new owners IMO.

Having said that, on songs that I can listen a little bit louder, I think the SO driver sounds a bit better in these than does the M2s Pro with the same driver (and I REALLY like those). I think the bass might be a tad bit deeper on the M2s Pro, but punchier and more textured on the M4 (but I may amend that later). I also think the staging is a bit bigger on the M4 (though I am not sure how, maybe it is because of the bigger shell???).

 

[samandhi]

It seems that the operation of these damping filters are kind of similar to the filter at the back of my DIY (photo). If the bass hole (or the whole bass tube in case of M4?) is wide open, both bass and upper midrange would be very loud, with a large dip around 1.25k. The more you dampen the hole, the more you can flatten the frequency response. If you choke the drivers even further, eventually the mid bass starts to drop. I like to use this trick on Letshuoer S12 for a "tighter" bass response.

BTW! Are the buds in that pic meant to be worn over ear, or does the cable just look that way because of the way it is bent?

 

[o0genesis0o]

BTW! Are the buds in that pic meant to be worn over ear, or does the cable just look that way because of the way it is bent?

They are for over-ear wear. I wanted something stable enough to do house work.

 

[samandhi]

They are for over-ear wear. I wanted something stable enough to do house work.

Fantastic! How are they working as such?

The only ones I have worn successfully that way are the Smabat ST10S B&G, though I think if I took the cable and put it on the M2s pro or M4 they might work as well (since they are shaped much the same). The Yincrow models (RW2000 and RW3000) are also shaped similar, but they lose their "magic" in the sound department (to my ears) when worn over ear.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Fantastic! How are they working as such?

The only ones I have worn successfully that way are the Smabat ST10S B&G, though I think if I took the cable and put it on the M2s pro or M4 they might work as well (since they are shaped much the same). The Yincrow models (RW2000 and RW3000) are also shaped similar, but they lose their "magic" in the sound department (to my ears) when worn over ear.

They sound the same as cable down to me. I guess because the shell is like a round button, it does not matter much. The cable is on discount on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004474789647.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.bea61802uGz2sE

I don't know why they are so cheap, but they are very good. I have nothing to complain so far. The only complain to me is the drivers. I might replace the YD30 drivers with high impedance drivers to take advantage of the balanced cable.

 

[samandhi]

They sound the same as cable down to me. I guess because the shell is like a round button, it does not matter much. The cable is on discount on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004474789647.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.bea61802uGz2sE

I don't know why they are so cheap, but they are very good. I have nothing to complain so far. The only complain to me is the drivers. I might replace the YD30 drivers with high impedance drivers to take advantage of the balanced cable.

It does look like a nice cable indeed (as does your DIY buds, in case I haven't told you). I wonder if if might be because they (possibly) lack any sort of purity that might cause (potential) impedance or capacitance issues??? Some of the processes they use to purify copper and silver are indeed costly, so that might be the kicker.

When you say high impedance driver, which are you considering?

 

[o0genesis0o]

It does look like a nice cable indeed (as does your DIY buds, in case I haven't told you). I wonder if if might be because they (possibly) lack any sort of purity that might cause (potential) impedance or capacitance issues??? Some of the processes they use to purify copper and silver are indeed costly, so that might be the kicker.

When you say high impedance driver, which are you considering?

I haven’t tested them with Andromeda, but the sound is normal so far. I’ll test with Andromeda and let you know how it goes.

I’m thinking about those Be drivers that Ronion has been using. I’m going to order those yellow and blue LCP drivers as well.

Edit: btw, I found the exact same cable used for this IEM cable. I remember they sell it in a big roll, like 10 or 100m in length. The costs of the cable and the plugs themselves are higher than the discount price of this Xihns cable already.