[chinmie]

If a $50 iem sounds x3 as good as a a $2 one, and a $200 one sounds x2 as good as that, and then (i'm only speculating at this point a $1000 might be x2 as good as the $200 one
How might a rough scale of diminishing returns plot out for earbuds?

from my view, i think the sweet spot for earbuds is in the 20-30 usd range for the best bang for the buck ratio.

 

[CT007]

The most expensive I tried though, the Smabat ST-10 (90-100$)... all have amazing imaging and soundstage that I find rivals my best IEMs

Have you tried Yincrow RW-1000? I am looking for the best earbud up to ~$100. Big, natural soundstage, strong imaging, clean details, balanced overall signature, non-fatiguing.

 

[RobinFood]

Have you tried Yincrow RW-1000? I am looking for the best earbud up to ~$100. Big, natural soundstage, strong imaging, clean details, balanced overall signature, non-fatiguing.

Sorry, I haven't tried it. Most of what I try is whatever makes it to the earphone stores here in Japan, or whatever I didn't mind losing money on from Aliexpress.
I can say though that I absolutely love everything about my Smabat ST-10, so much so that I basically stopped buying earbuds shortly after, and didn't consider the higher priced earbuds worth buying after auditioning them next to one another. It might be a little fatiguing, because it sounds rather cold with a sub-bass lift, but the sound is clean and gives excellent imaging and soundstage.

 

[jenkinsontherun]

ISN Audio Rambo II, if you buy before 1st May you also get the ISN C4 cable for free.

https://penonaudio.com/isn-audio-rambo-ii.html

The bell shape looks comfortable akin to the E100. Although there is significant bulk behind the driver. Shirt clips may help with this earbud.

 

[noknok23]

The bell shape looks comfortable akin to the E100. Although there is significant bulk behind the driver. Shirt clips may help with this earbud.

With the free cable it's a really good deal but I just bought willsound mk32 already (which is pretty nice)

 

[thesoundandthefury]

I'll post some thoughts about my smabat / yuki after a longer trial, hopefully they'll grow on me.

from my view, i think the sweet spot for earbuds is in the 20-30 usd range for the best bang for the buck ratio.

Can a $200 TOTL earbud really compete against the same standards of a $200 TOTL iem? Or are most expensive earbuds mainly marketed towards niche earbud-enthusiasts who might be happy to pay an extra hundred dollars for only nuanced differences that a non-earbud-collector might not really appreciate?

I've heard a few people here say that while buds might fall short on some things, they should blow any iem out of the water in terms of soundstage. But now I'm starting to wonder whether they're excluding certain iems ( P1, MDR-7550/800ST, etc) out of that competition...

 

[jenkinsontherun]

I'll post some thoughts about my smabat / yuki after a longer trial, hopefully they'll grow on me.



Can a $200 TOTL earbud really compete against the same standards of a $200 TOTL iem? Or are most expensive earbuds mainly marketed towards niche earbud-enthusiasts who might be happy to pay an extra hundred dollars for only nuanced differences that a non-earbud-collector might not really appreciate?

I've heard a few people here say that while buds might fall short on some things, they should blow any iem out of the water in terms of soundstage. But now I'm starting to wonder whether they're excluding certain iems ( P1, MDR-7550/800ST, etc) out of that competition...

I think there's inherent pros and cons for each. For example, we must give credit to the lightweight, open nature of an earbud, even if the scenario which requires such a configuration is not frequent. For example, construction workers may want earbuds to listen to their surroundings, and they can't wear headphones over their hats.

 

[thesoundandthefury]

I think there's inherent pros and cons for each. For example, we must give credit to the lightweight, open nature of an earbud, even if the scenario which requires such a configuration is not frequent. For example, construction workers may want earbuds to listen to their surroundings, and they can't wear headphones over their hats.

I totally agree thats a big plus for earbuds - its the main reason I'm interested in buying them. However, I'm wondering how much sound quality (in the $150 - $300 range) is necessarily sacrificed for the bonus of comfort and environmentally-specific usability?

 

[RobinFood]

I totally agree thats a big plus for earbuds - its the main reason I'm interested in buying them. However, I'm wondering how much sound quality (in the $150 - $300 range) is necessarily sacrificed for the bonus of comfort and environmentally-specific usability?

Sound quality is so subjective that is hard to answer.

I like the soundstage and imaging better on my Smabat ST-10 (90-100$) than on my ER4XR (350$)
I like the timber better on the ER4XR though.
They are both about as detailed and can retrieve about the same amount of details to my ear.

My favorite sound presentation out of all gear though still goes to the first expensive IEM I bought, the ATH-CKR70 (90$), which got terrible reviews by everyone but me. I still think they sound absolutely amazing. Best horizontal imaging and separation I have ever heard, with an emphasis on female vocals, but the ST-10 has better vertical and depth imaging.

The thing that really kills IEMs for me these days is how microphonic the cables are. I can't enjoy the music when I hear that grating sound every time I move my head. I know all the tricks to stop microphonics, but at the end of the day it feels like such a chore. Earbuds have a lot less problems with microphonics.

 

[chinmie]

I'll post some thoughts about my smabat / yuki after a longer trial, hopefully they'll grow on me.



Can a $200 TOTL earbud really compete against the same standards of a $200 TOTL iem? Or are most expensive earbuds mainly marketed towards niche earbud-enthusiasts who might be happy to pay an extra hundred dollars for only nuanced differences that a non-earbud-collector might not really appreciate?

I've heard a few people here say that while buds might fall short on some things, they should blow any iem out of the water in terms of soundstage. But now I'm starting to wonder whether they're excluding certain iems ( P1, MDR-7550/800ST, etc) out of that competition...

for comparison, it is closer for earbuds to headphones in nature than comparing them to IEMs.
like @RobinFood had mentioned a few post earlier, usually jumping straight from IEM to earbuds (or vice versa) in a single listening session would be drastic. jumping from headphone to earbuds, while there would still be differences, it would not be so drastic.

200 dollars TOTL earbuds can definitely compare to TOTL headphones and IEM in technicalities.
well, to be fair, 200 dollars in the IEMs and headphones world is hardly TOTL at all...that would be in the thousands of dollars price bracket.
TOTL earbuds when compared to the lower tier earbuds, the difference is in refinement of sound. if you can notice the difference and can't stop thinking about it, then it would be a worthy purchase.

one thing to mind though... price is definitely not a sure sign of sound superiority, and also matching to your personal preference . I've heard some in the thousand dollars range that i don't like.

 

[CT007]

'Yincrow RW-1000 Bass Enhanced Edition'

"RW-1000 low frequency enhanced version" https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=603651445555 (Could not find on Aliexpress yet, and appears sold out at Taobao[or I don't know how to order lol - help!])

Looks like 4 versions of Yincrow RW-1000:
3.5mm
4.4mm balanced
2.5mm balanced
"low frequency enhanced version" (3.5mm, I was told)

I'm guessing this is the product ad for it, with the "bass = 音" symbol:

*Apparently the Aliexpress seller "LuckLZ" has this edition, after requesting it - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000412299257.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1e654c4dJwS0Mi

Will confirm(or try to?) when it arrives.

 

[jenkinsontherun]

for comparison, it is closer for earbuds to headphones in nature than comparing them to IEMs.
like @RobinFood had mentioned a few post earlier, usually jumping straight from IEM to earbuds (or vice versa) in a single listening session would be drastic. jumping from headphone to earbuds, while there would still be differences, it would not be so drastic.

200 dollars TOTL earbuds can definitely compare to TOTL headphones and IEM in technicalities.
well, to be fair, 200 dollars in the IEMs and headphones world is hardly TOTL at all...that would be in the thousands of dollars price bracket.
TOTL earbuds when compared to the lower tier earbuds, the difference is in refinement of sound. if you can notice the difference and can't stop thinking about it, then it would be a worthy purchase.

one thing to mind though... price is definitely not a sure sign of sound superiority, and also matching to your personal preference . I've heard some in the thousand dollars range that i don't like.

We can also note the margin of error in IEMs is high in that price bracket as well. There are many more "spoiled" IEMs in regard to build quality, tonality, or technicalities than there are earbuds in that price. More or less, if you pick any $200 earbud, you're going to like it, whereas, with IEMs, it's maybe 50/50 chance lol.

However, this does not compare IEMs with earbuds. It plays on the fact that we perhaps expect less detail on an earbud, and as a result are content with that result. It's a great discussion topic nonetheless.

 

[thesoundandthefury]

It plays on the fact that we perhaps expect less detail on an earbud, and as a result are content with that result.

Would I be setting myself up for disappointment if I were to drop $200 on a Turandot expecting as much detail, separation and timbre as my favourite $200 iem? My inability to notice any radical difference between my $10 yuki and $65 smabat makes me wonder if I'll appreciate the difference between a $65 bud and a $200 bud?? I desperately want to find a bud that im happy with

 

[golov17]

In da house

@thesoundandthefury btw, Turandot really have nice, detailed sound, without any problem, 14.8 ohm

 

[ClieOS]

Simphonio D3
ZEVAXY Z1000

Smabat ST-10S Black Gold
Smabat ST-10S