[Aussie Lou]

  Beautiful! What amp is that?

La Figaro/Darkvoice 339
 
http://erji.net/read.php?tid=1206319
 
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/La-Figaro-339-Headphone-amplifier-tube-amplifier-PreAMP-amplifier-AMP-/111026198887

 

[Jeb Listens]

Hmm I don't own a WA2 but that pic doesn't look like some of the others I've seen which look very neat indeed as seen in this post from a few years ago.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/3090#post_6525392

Although neatness is always important , as long as it's at a decent level - which it seems to be, I think I'd be more interested in the choice of the components, the thought process that has gone into the circuit design, and the quality of the solder-work rather than having 90 degree bends in the wires and regimented rows of many components.

I've seen pictures of the insides of a few of TOTL tube amps from the likes of DNA and Eddie Current and none of them seen that concerned with that kind of thing either.

However, since I've never designed a circuit, nor have I heard the amps in question, I probably shouldn't comment further.

 

[Badas]

   

 
That's point to point art work and that's in a $750 amp which sounds as good as a WA2.  
 

 
Internal pic of Wa2 taken from the web.  I do think Woo makes great products but I think the point people are trying to make is when you're paying $10k or even $5k for an amp, you're expecting top-notch finish and parts and not just on the outside.  

 
Damn, the first one is a work of art.

 

[2359glenn]

 

 anyone who's actually taken the back cover off a Woo amp and looked at how carefully and beautifully the wiring is done would never complain about build quality

 

 
That's point to point art work and that's in a $750 amp which sounds as good as a WA2

Looks good but a real pain in the ass to work on when it breaks.

 

[Stereolab42]

Hmm I don't own a WA2 but that pic doesn't look like some of the others I've seen which look very neat indeed as seen in this post from a few years ago.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/3090#post_6525392

Although neatness is always important , as long as it's at a decent level - which it seems to be, I think I'd be more interested in the choice of the components, the thought process that has gone into the circuit design, and the quality of the solder-work rather than having 90 degree bends in the wires and regimented rows of many components.

I've seen pictures of the insides of a few of TOTL tube amps from the likes of DNA and Eddie Current and none of them seen that concerned with that kind of thing either.

However, since I've never designed a circuit, nor have I heard the amps in question, I probably shouldn't comment further.

 
Pic from that thread (WA2):
 

 
The essence of beauty and simplicity to me. Probably a more recent build than the previous pic, and not taken with bad lighting either. (Interiors of the WA22 and WA5 are similarly classy, looking at my own pics.) Much prettier than the interior of the La Figaro to me.

 

[Stereolab42]

Okay. I take up the challenge. I will shoot over sound quality.

How come when I stick in a 6080 tube into a 6080 socket on the WA22 it sounds like a crappy old radio with massive amounts of noise then? To my ears that is not good sound quality.

But I already know the answer to that. Crappy build quality. About a year ago Woo changed something in the WA22 that effected a lot of us with bad 6080 circuits. The answer. Keep quiet and do nothing about it. So actually build quality is relevant as it effects the sound quality.

 
My WA22, built last year (and traded-in to upgrade to a WA5), did just fine with cheap RCA 6080s. So your accusation is thoroughly unjustified.

 

[Badas]

   
My WA22, built last year (and traded-in to upgrade to a WA5), did just fine with cheap RCA 6080s. So your accusation is thoroughly unjustified.

Okay is this unjustified?
 
RCA 6080 (1 pair quiet)
Tung-Sol 7236 (1 pair quiet)
Bendix 6080 ( 1 pair quiet)
GE 6080 (stock set quiet)
GE 6AS7GA (7 sets quiet)
Tung-Sol 6AS7G (3 sets quiet)
Thomson 6080 (1 set quiet)
 
Mullard 6080 (3 sets all noisy)
Sylvania 6080 (3 sets all noisy)
GEC 6080 (1 set noisy)
Tung-Sol 6AS7G (1 set noisy)
Russian 6N13 (5 sets noisy)
RCA 6AS7G (5 sets noisy)
 
All noisy tubes tested in WA2 and it is quiet.
 
WA22 is a hit or miss with 6080 power tubes. I'm not the only owner as well. A few of us have tried to fix this. We are talking via PM's of fear of getting banned. Mine has been to a shop to be checked out at my expense. Comment was "work looks fine, it must be the circuit design".
 
Contacted Woo for the second time for comment and so far no response.
 
Either we got a change in the circuit design at one stage then Woo corrected or a batch of WA22's got some bad components. Either way trying to get it fixed or answers is frustrating.

 

[abvolt]

That sure doesn't look like you have much luck with that amp and power tubes it would frustrate the hell out of me, sorry to see this dude I have all those same tubes or had (sold some) and others with no issues, hopefully Woo will give you an answer soon, You might end up selling and look for another maker.. 

 

[abvolt]

  That sure doesn't look like you have much luck with that amp and power tubes it would frustrate the hell out of me, sorry to see this dude I have all those same tubes or had (sold some) and others with no issues, hopefully Woo will give you an answer soon, You might end up selling and look for another maker.. 

don't own GEC 6080's..

 

[Stereolab42]

It's really no mystery that different tube amps frequently have different circuit designs for the same family of tubes. Different voltages, etc. And not all such designs work ideally with all tubes in that family. (For example, the NU 6F8G in the WA5.) Maybe the output tube circuit in the WA22 could/should be tweaked to be less noisy with some tubes, but it's hardly broken or even flawed. It was silent with enough of the output tubes I rolled that I was happy, the noisy ones I just returned (and I only buy from sellers that allow returns). Owning a tube amp isn't meant to be simple or easy, and I for one wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Shaffer]

FWIW, I've purchased 5 pairs of brand new signal tubes for my WA6, and have another two pairs on the way. Only one pair of tubes is quiet. And it's not as if the noise is exclusive to a specific channel, time of day, or physical placement. The noise never leaves. Yes, some noise can be a part of the tube game, but when a $260 Asian amp is dead quiet and can match the WA6's sound quality, and surpass it in some areas, it's not unreasonable to expect more refined performance from the Woo.

 

[TonyNewman]

  It's really no mystery that different tube amps frequently have different circuit designs for the same family of tubes. Different voltages, etc. And not all such designs work ideally with all tubes in that family. (For example, the NU 6F8G in the WA5.) Maybe the output tube circuit in the WA22 could/should be tweaked to be less noisy with some tubes, but it's hardly broken or even flawed. It was silent with enough of the output tubes I rolled that I was happy, the noisy ones I just returned (and I only buy from sellers that allow returns). Owning a tube amp isn't meant to be simple or easy, and I for one wouldn't have it any other way.

 
The NU 6F8G driving a 300B is an interesting case. The 6C8G, with its slightly higher output, can do it without the constant noise that the 6F8G can generate.
 
This raises the question - is using the 6SN7 family of tubes to drive the 300B a good idea in the first place? Folks that know a lot more than I do about the electrical side of things suggest that the answer is 'no'. There are better choices out there. The 6SN7s are pushed to the limit to drive the 300B - a symptom can be harshness / sibilance in the treble when pushed. When I compare TS RP vs C3G driving the TA300Bs in my WA5 I can certainly hear the difference. The C3Gs maintain a smooth and accurate treble SQ. The 6C8G TS RPs don't when stressed. Driving the 300B is too much for them - perhaps a different driver tube would have been a better design decision?

 

[bpcans]

FWIW, I've purchased 5 pairs of brand new signal tubes for my WA6, and have another two pairs on the way. Only one pair of tubes is quiet. And it's not as if the noise is exclusive to a specific channel, time of day, or physical placement. The noise never leaves. Yes, some noise can be a part of the tube game, but when a $260 Asian amp is dead quiet and can match the WA6's sound quality, and surpass it in some areas, it's not unreasonable to expect more refined performance from the Woo.

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up here lately, but I'd definitely like to know which tubes have given you problems with your WA6? I've had my WA6 for a couple of years now, and have been lucky enough to have found a good tube combo using Sophia Electric 6SN7's and a USAF 596 rectifier.

 

[Shaffer]

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up here lately, but I'd definitely like to know which tubes have given you problems with your WA6? I've had my WA6 for a couple of years now, and have been lucky enough to have found a good tube combo using Sophia Electric 6SN7's and a USAF 596 rectifier.

So far I've stuck with stock-fit tubes. My other amps run 6SN7 drivers and I'd rather play with something different.

In essence, the only tube that has not introduced a buzzing sound is a RCA 6EW7 fat bottle. I have all other varieties of stock-fit tubes, some from different manufacturers. Mostly, Sylvania and GE. I also have 4 pairs that I inherited with the amp: TS, GE, and a Pinnacle. All buzz. FWIW, I have a GZ34, a Brimar, a JAN 1641, and a bunch of other rectifiers. Still, only one pair of bottles is silent. I'm not thrilled.

 

[Badas]

Here we go.
 
I have a response from Woo:
 
It’s unlikely that there’s anything wrong with your WA22. Some tubes are just more noisy in some circuits. That’s why we test tubes on the actual amplifier as well as test machines. 
 
When you need new tubes, just send us a note and we’ll get you a set with the lowest noise on WA22.
 
Okay. To sum up from my perspective.
 
Woo WA22 is not designed to run some of the most well regarded tubes. Mullard 6080 and GEC 6080. So I can't get the most from my unit.
 
Woo ignored the fact that all noisy tubes worked in WA2.
 
Woo ignored the fact that the Mullard 6080 is working in some WA22's and not others.
 
So be aware that if you are looking at the WA22. Full tube rolling is not a option. Or a roll with the dice at best.
 
List of tubes to avoid that I have found. Mullard 6080, Sylvania 6080, GEC 6080, Russian 6N13, RCA 6AS7G.
 
Risky tube. Kinda 50/50 Tung-Sol 6AS7G.
 
Tung-Sol 5998, GEC 6AS7G not tested.