[joseph69]

  Its not hate, its the dustbin, no seriously its personal preference they don't do it for me, YMMV .
 
I've heard just about every variant and some of them (bad boys) etc are not cheap, IMHO you can do better for the $.

Will agree…they weren't exactly inexpensive. And yes, it is a personal preference. 

 

[Badas]

   
I moonlight as a crack dealing outside schools...
 
You'll thank me later. It's an outstanding SS headphone amp (and preamp, if you use it for such).
 
I think it scales well with better DACs - the oboard option is good, but it can go further with better hardware. Please share how it sounds with the DaVinci if you do that hook up (stunning DAC by all the reviews I have read, by the way).

I concur. The 430HA is the best sounding SS headphone amp I have heard. If I owned I would walk away from tubes.

 

 

[TonyNewman]

 
Its not hate, its the dustbin, no seriously its personal preference they don't do it for me, YMMV .
 
I've heard just about every variant and some of them (bad boys) etc are not cheap, IMHO you can do better for the $.

 
I had about 4 6SN7 Sylvania Chrome Domes. All binned along with my Psvane T2 CV-181s, Shuguang BTs, Russian 6SN7s, Sophia 6SN7s, EH 6SN7s, Full Music 6SN7s and an assosrtment of other failed driver tube experiments. All crap compared to the 6F8G NUs and TS RPs. Nothing else I have tried measures up. I have some RCA 6SN7s and RCA 6F8Gs on hand in case of a truly desperate situation. Everything else went into the bin.
 
I have not heard the Brimar 6SN7s - they might be golden, I have no idea. So far the NUs and TS RPs are the only drivers I have heard that that make my amps sing.
 
Thinking of my WA5 and the impact of the various tubes - rectifier / driver / output is something like 30 / 40 / 30. The driver tubes make the biggest difference to the SQ, and often appear to get the least attention. Not sure that split is right - might be more like 25 / 50 / 25. The drivers are the peg that the SQ hangs from, at least for the WA5.
 
WA6 I would characterise as something like - rectifier / drivers in the ratio 40 / 60 or perhaps 30 / 70 for SQ impact.
 
None of this is exact, just making the point that drivers don't seem to get the lovin that they should.

 

[TonyNewman]

 
I concur. The 430HA is the best sounding SS headphone amp I have heard. If I owned I would walk away from tubes.

 
I was seriously heading down that road - why bother with tubes? - then I heard what the best drivers could do for a tube amp. The 6F8G NUs and TS RPs have turned me back onto tubes when I was seriously thinking of walking away.
 
The 430HA is stunningly good, and it takes a top tier (or close to it) tube complement in the WA5 to compete with it IMHO, starting the drivers.

 

[isquirrel]

   
I had about 4 6SN7 Sylvania Chrome Domes. All binned along with my Psvane T2 CV-181s, Shuguang BTs, Russian 6SN7s, Sophia 6SN7s, EH 6SN7s, Full Music 6SN7s and an assosrtment of other failed driver tube experiments. All crap compared to the 6F8G NUs and TS RPs. Nothing else I have tried measures up. I have some RCA 6SN7s and RCA 6F8Gs on hand in case of a truly desperate situation. Everything else went into the bin.
 
I have not heard the Brimar 6SN7s - they might be golden, I have no idea. So far the NUs and TS RPs are the only drivers I have heard that that make my amps sing.
 
Thinking of my WA5 and the impact of the various tubes - rectifier / driver / output is something like 30 / 40 / 30. The driver tubes make the biggest difference to the SQ, and often appear to get the least attention. Not sure that split is right - might be more like 25 / 50 / 25. The drivers are the peg that the SQ hangs from, at least for the WA5.
 
WA6 I would characterise as something like - rectifier / drivers in the ratio 40 / 60 or perhaps 30 / 70 for SQ impact.
 
None of this is exact, just making the point that drivers don't seem to get the lovin that they should.

Totally agree.
 
I shake my head at all the variants of new production very good power tubes and rectifiers, when there are none for decent driver tubes and I am absolutely not going to say anything about the Pis 181's. Whoever did that write up about how good they were a while ago in the press and preferred them to the TS or Brimars well one can only assume he had bumped into you mate lurking about with your side business !
 
Decent driver tubes are running out, they don't last anywhere as long (5,000 hours) as good rectifiers or power tubes. In every amp I have heard they make the biggest difference, they define your sound. Yes its nice to have decent 300B's etc but it starts with the drivers.
 
BTW I have a nice pair of the "recommended Brimars, (Black Glass) they have a good euphonic mid range, but are polite and restricted at the other frequencies. Nothing to go berserk over + hard to find decent one's and they are expensive.

 

[TonyNewman]

 
Totally agree.
 
I shake my head at all the variants of new production very good power tubes and rectifiers, when there are none for decent driver tubes and I am absolutely not going to say anything about the Pis 181's. Whoever did that write up about how good they were a while ago in the press and preferred them to the TS or Brimars well one can only assume he had bumped into you mate lurking about with your side business !
 
Decent driver tubes are running out, they don't last anywhere as long (5,000 hours) as good rectifiers or power tubes. In every amp I have heard they make the biggest difference, they define your sound. Yes its nice to have decent 300B's etc but it starts with the drivers.
 
BTW I have a nice pair of the "recommended Brimars, (Black Glass) they have a good euphonic mid range, but are polite and restricted at the other frequencies. Nothing to go berserk over + hard to find decent one's and they are expensive.

 
Makes me wonder what is going to happen to the hobby unless a Takatsuki or an Elrog makes a 6SN7. Not sure they are interested in that part of the market, but the sexy 274Bs and 300Bs and 845s are meaningless without the drivers.

 

[joseph69]

  WA6 I would characterise as something like - rectifier / drivers in the ratio 40 / 60 or perhaps 30 / 70 for SQ impact.
 
None of this is exact, just making the point that drivers don't seem to get the lovin that they should.

 IMO/IME I've always thought that the driver tubes impacted the sound of the WA6 more than the rectifier tube myself.

 

[isquirrel]

   
Makes me wonder what is going to happen to the hobby unless a Takatsuki or an Elrog makes a 6SN7. Not sure they are interested in that part of the market, but the sexy 274Bs and 300Bs and 845s are meaningless without the drivers.

No chance of either of them making a driver tube for a few years from what I hear.
 
I understand that that most of the good stocks of driver tubes are hiding in Greece. When/if I find out where, suggest a Black Ops job with you Badas & Matt. I quite fancy the whole plot. From what I hear Matt looks quite good in make up & you & Badas, well you've got the whole velcro thing going for you 

 

[isquirrel]

BTW Tony what's you thinking about proper procedure about Elrog burn in? Given the theorated Tungsten elements.

 

[TonyNewman]

  BTW Tony what's you thinking about proper procedure about Elrog burn in? Given the theorated Tungsten elements.

 
 
I'll be running them only when I am around, in bursts of a few hours, 4 to 8 would be ideal, I think.
 
Does Elrog give some guidance? The word from the manufacturer would be more worthy than any speil I can spit out

 

[Krutsch]

  In every amp I have heard they make the biggest difference, they define your sound. Yes its nice to have decent 300B's etc but it starts with the drivers.

 
On the low-end (if anyone cares) this is true, as well. The imaging, separation, soundstage is all the drivers from what I've experienced.

 

[TonyNewman]

  No chance of either of them making a driver tube for a few years from what I hear.
 
I understand that that most of the good stocks of driver tubes are hiding in Greece. When/if I find out where, suggest a Black Ops job with you Badas & Matt. I quite fancy the whole plot. From what I hear Matt looks quite good in make up & you & Badas, well you've got the whole velcro thing going for you 

 
And unlimited Souvlaki and Uzo afterwards...

 

[isquirrel]

On the phone with the Elrog distributor, he is happy to see them run for 4-6 hours on initial burn in, then once past the 50 hour mark go for it. Main thing is DO NOT move them or touch them for at least 15-30 minutes after power off. They are designed to be well used.
 
No EML Mesh Plate run in pandering with these.
 
SOP for all tubes really.

 

[TonyNewman]

  On the phone with the Elrog distributor, he is happy to see them run for 4-6 hours on initial burn in, then once past the 50 hour mark go for it. Main thing is DO NOT move them or touch them for at least 15-30 minutes after power off. They are designed to be well used.
 
No EML Mesh Plate run in pandering with these.
 
SOP for all tubes really.

 
Good to know - thanks for sharing

 

[Badas]

No chance of either of them making a driver tube for a few years from what I hear.

I understand that that most of the good stocks of driver tubes are hiding in Greece. When/if I find out where, suggest a Black Ops job with you Badas & Matt. I quite fancy the whole plot. From what I hear Matt looks quite good in make up & you & Badas, well you've got the whole velcro thing going for you :tongue_smile:

I'm in.

You can be the sneaky ninja squirrel and then I will open a can of Badas.

Tony and Matt are get away drivers.