[Mad Lust Envy]

The M50 is more aggressive, with a more restricted soundstage. I'd say that aside from the tonal shift, they are neck to neck overall. I actually prefer the M50 for music by just a hair, but for gaming, the M50 doesn't come close. They just do not work well with the Mixamp. The CAL does. For $50 more here in the states, the DT770 80 is even more impressive with soundstage and positioning, and a somewhat similar sound. They are kings of immersion for closed headphones.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Quote:

Huh, I haven't tried blops with my cans but I didn't think MW3 was bad at all. AD700's are great in terms of direction, and the SR850's have that plus a bit better distance figuring in MW3. I mean, if it got mutch better than this... I already feel like I'm cheating!
 
I found the positioning in BF2 to be pretty bad, though - you think MW3 is better than BF2?

 
You sure you didn't mean BF3 there, with the Frostbite engine's poor audio mixing?
 
BF2 uses OpenAL, so positioning is as perfect as can be, and certainly far superior to CoD:MW3's XAudio2/FMOD Ex mixing.

 

[robwalton]

The DT 770 does look good, maybe if a friend of mine goes to the US I might order one.
 
But if I have to import, then its just too much for me, since I risk being taxed, which would bring up the cost to 400 bucks.
 
I guess I'll go with the CAL!, good recommendations, looks comfortable, and I won't get in too much trouble if they get it at customs.

 

[Mrniceguy633]

So they're that good huh? And your sense of immersion was relatively untouched compared to say the pro 900 or 990 premiums? Didn't feel like you lost were missing out on anything the other two could provide? Ambience and such?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

No, because a full sounding open can trumps any closed can. Going from closed to open really adds ambience and immersion, not to mention usually better positioning.

The Pro 900 is closed sounding, no matter how you slice it. Positioning is between good and great, but they are considerably more closed sounding than say the DT770 Pro 80 or Denon D7000. The DT990 Premiums are more open sounding than the HE400, but sound thin and harsh in comparison. Bass is more preferrable on the 990s than the HE400 for my personal taste.

The HE400 have the perfect balance of openness, full bodied sound, and overall good to great positioning. They define all rounders for me.

I do need to use them for gaming a lot more to make sure I know what score the HE400 is going to have overall. Right now, I'm floating between:

Fun: 8-8.5
Competitive: 7.5-8

Yes, I'm absolutely in love with them, but I haven't had time to truly test out their positional cues outside of a few BLOPS games, and don't wanna blindly put up a score based on personal bias.

The HE400 impressions are gonna take awhile.

 

[seanmcloughlin7]

Quote:

 
You sure you didn't mean BF3 there, with the Frostbite engine's poor audio mixing?
 
BF2 uses OpenAL, so positioning is as perfect as can be, and certainly far superior to CoD:MW3's XAudio2/FMOD Ex mixing.

Yeah it's disheartening that BF3 has some of the best audio around but bad positioning. all around at ear level is fine but it's when things are below and above you it falls apart. Like being on a roof and having a tank in the building, a guy fired an RPG at it and I thought he was behind me on the roof. It's really annoying

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

To be honest, height positional cues isn't exactly a strength of Dolby headphone either.

 

[Mrniceguy633]

Hm, well I certainly have some more to consider now. I'll wait for your final thoughts. I understand you want some more time. Thanks for the small personal preview

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Don't get me wrong, the HE400 are stellar gaming cans, and aren't missing anything. In the grand scheme of things, they have everything I could ask for in terms of gaming. However, since this is a guide, and scores are given, there are headphones that have better raw positioning, and raw fun factor. However, I haven't heard a headphone that does both on such a high level of sound quality, as the HE400.

 

[seanmcloughlin7]

Quote:

To be honest, height positional cues isn't exactly a strength of Dolby headphone either.

Maybe not but it doesn't really matter in other games. BF3 is the only game where I have had the problem I mentioned. Guys above and below you sound like they are right beside you

 

[Mrniceguy633]

I can see what you mean. To me, I suppose emulating "natural", would be not having so much emphasis on bass anyway as it doesn't really seem to be as prevalent on a day to day basis unless something happens and calls for it. As long as it's there when it's demanded(situation calls for it). Then it sems they would provide plenty of a more "natural" immersion. Or perhaps I'm just talking out of my butt. What do I know lol

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Actually, you have a firm grasp on what I mean. The HE400's bass is natural, yet still richer than what I'd consider neutral. If a song has bass, the HE400 will not disappoint. If a song doesn't, it won't add any unnecessary amount, which is a problem with bass heavy headphones. They tend to add bass to things that normally shouldn't have much.

Video games have plenty of explosions and rumbling, etc, so the HE400's remains quite busy.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Quote:

Yeah it's disheartening that BF3 has some of the best audio around but bad positioning. all around at ear level is fine but it's when things are below and above you it falls apart. Like being on a roof and having a tank in the building, a guy fired an RPG at it and I thought he was behind me on the roof. It's really annoying

 
What I've noticed is that no matter where an explosion goes off, there's always a left-right pan regardless of where the explosion happened. For that matter, I have a hard time localizing ANY sound in BF:BC2. (Can't speak as much about BF3 due to only having played a brief bit of the public beta, but it still appears to have the same audio mixer.)
 
Given that the actual sound effects used are great, it's quite the letdown. I wonder if anyone's willing to make a BF2 sound mod using the BF:BC2 or BF3 sounds.
 
As for the lack of height cues, blame the downfall of hardware-accelerated 3D audio in favor of software mixers that favor 5.1/7.1 speaker setups (which have no height channels whatsoever and assume that all speakers are placed at an equal height) and act as if headphones are only good for stereo left/right one-dimensional panning, like binaural/HRTF mixing doesn't exist. I was just playing BF1942 last night, and not only was it clear with CMSS-3D Headphone that a plane was flying over my head (not on the same altitude) while taking cover in a building, but I could easily tell what direction it was coming from and heading towards without having to look. Like I always say, it's like having an aural wallhack.

 

[Mrniceguy633]

Ah ok that all makes sense. I suppose that's what makes bass emphasized headphones seem so appealing. They make things sound intense all the time. For some headphones that's gotta wear out it's welcome at some point

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Telling you though, I'm here listening to one of my fave Chillstep tracks (I always mention this one: 'Synthetic Epiphany - Submerged"), and it's just mind blowing how awesome it sounds on the HE400.

I for damn sure cannot say that the HE400 is lacking bass.

One example of unnecessary bass, is like on the D7000. Certain instruments and vocals would have more rumble than you'd perceive as natural. Granted, I'm perfectly fine with it, but it IS unnatural. The HE400 doesn't have that issue.