[Mad Lust Envy]

Ok, to sum up:


PS5 solutions for now.

1. Penrose is amazing for ps5
2. USB C to 3.5mm dongle works, but too much static and not enough juice even with amp desktop amp attached.
3. Asus Xonar U3 works. Decent for easy to drive headphones like the PortaPro. Can attach dac or amp for more power, still not ideal for anything that is harder to drive.
4. Schiit Hel and Schiit Modi 3 usb functions do NOT work. Hel can be used in amp mode for the U3 or G6 but not powerful enough.
5. Creative G6 works well but needs to be high gain, and maxed out to get moderate volume for something like a 6XX. Ideally, you WILL need a desktop amp for the G6 of at least Magni 3 level or MORE.
6. Best solution I have atm is Creative G6 - optical out - optical input of a DAC like the Modi 3 to Magni 3 in high gain at 3 o clock on the volume knob. Nearly maxed out, so not much headroom.

Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 are sounding like really good ideas for amps to use with the PS5.

At leastil until and IF/WHEN Sony decides to update the ps5 to allow 3D audio to be piped through the HDMI out, then compatibility will rise exponentially.

 

[AppleheadMay]

This is great Intel. Thanks.

Now I have some thinking to do. Sell the X7 and replace with G6 so I can used my Ether C Flows or Penrose.

Why would you need a G6 to use the Penrose?

Ok, to sum up:


PS5 solutions for now.

1. Penrose is amazing for ps5
2. USB C to 3.5mm dongle works, but too much static and not enough juice even with amp desktop amp attached.
3. Asus Xonar U3 works. Decent for easy to drive headphones like the PortaPro. Can attach dac or amp for more power, still not ideal for anything that is harder to drive.
4. Schiit Hel and Schiit Modi 3 usb functions do NOT work. Hel can be used in amp mode for the U3 or G6 but not powerful enough.
5. Creative G6 works well but needs to be high gain, and maxed out to get moderate volume for something like a 6XX. Ideally, you WILL need a desktop amp for the G6 of at least Magni 3 level or MORE.
6. Best solution I have atm is Creative G6 - optical out - optical input of a DAC like the Modi 3 to Magni 3 in high gain at 3 o clock on the volume knob. Nearly maxed out, so not much headroom.

6 is a nice solution indeed, it's what i do with my PC: G6 optical out - Bifrost - Jotunheim. Ample juice for anything.

But what I tried with the Xbox worked fine as well: VSS from Xbox via controller out to RCA input of the Jotunheim.
Which is why I'm thinking of getting a portable amp, now I need a 3 to 4m cable from my seat to the Jot and the same length for my phones back.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Why would you need a G6 to use the Penrose?




6 is a nice solution indeed, it's what i do with my PC: G6 optical out - Bifrost - Jotunheim. Ample juice for anything.

But what I tried with the Xbox worked fine as well: VSS from Xbox via controller out to RCA input of the Jotunheim.
Which is why I'm thinking of getting a portable amp, now I need a 3 to 4m cable from my seat to the Jot and the same length for my phones back.

Oh, if you're fine piping audio from the controller to your gear, then ANYHTING will work. I was just trying to find gear that wouldn't have to be attached to the controller.

Controller to headphone amp will work fine enough if you're ok with that.

 

[kellte2]

Why would you need a G6 to use the Penrose?




6 is a nice solution indeed, it's what i do with my PC: G6 optical out - Bifrost - Jotunheim. Ample juice for anything.

But what I tried with the Xbox worked fine as well: VSS from Xbox via controller out to RCA input of the Jotunheim.
Which is why I'm thinking of getting a portable amp, now I need a 3 to 4m cable from my seat to the Jot and the same length for my phones back.

We have similar gear. I currently use the X7 via optical and line out to a Jotunheim which drives the Ether C Flows. I suppose I could go the g6 route, but it feels like then I’d be potentially double DAC’ing (ps5 to g6 via usb to X7 via digital line out to Jotunheim via RCA line out. X7). even with upgraded op-amps, feels redundant in this scenario.

Alternatively, I could just get the Penrose and go wireless.

The million dollar question remains: how good is Tempest, and is it so much better than SBX that it would be worth downgrading my DAC (x7 with sparkos op-amps to g6)?

This has all been very helpful. Eager to hear more impressions.

 

[deadchip12]

Ok, to sum up:


PS5 solutions for now.

1. Penrose is amazing for ps5
2. USB C to 3.5mm dongle works, but too much static and not enough juice even with amp desktop amp attached.
3. Asus Xonar U3 works. Decent for easy to drive headphones like the PortaPro. Can attach dac or amp for more power, still not ideal for anything that is harder to drive.
4. Schiit Hel and Schiit Modi 3 usb functions do NOT work. Hel can be used in amp mode for the U3 or G6 but not powerful enough.
5. Creative G6 works well but needs to be high gain, and maxed out to get moderate volume for something like a 6XX. Ideally, you WILL need a desktop amp for the G6 of at least Magni 3 level or MORE.
6. Best solution I have atm is Creative G6 - optical out - optical input of a DAC like the Modi 3 to Magni 3 in high gain at 3 o clock on the volume knob. Nearly maxed out, so not much headroom.

Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 are sounding like really good ideas for amps to use with the PS5.

At leastil until and IF/WHEN Sony decides to update the ps5 to allow 3D audio to be piped through the HDMI out, then compatibility will rise exponentially.

Hmm any idea why we need to max out on the g6? Will it be better for easier to drive pairs?

 

[AppleheadMay]

@Mad Lust Envy @kellte2

I'm more or less fine with a cable from my controller.
Let me explain: I now tried with a tougher cable from the controller to the amp just to test the SQ. That cable was indeed a pain.
But I would have Matt from FAW make a thin cotton sleeved cable from his normal copper series, not that expensive.
It's the same cable type I use for my Drop Panda to the controller and it doesn't get in the way for me.

But on the other hand a wireless Panda has me intrigued ... if it's really that good.
I agree wireless is much more convenient of course.
Too bad they're not available yet.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

We have similar gear. I currently use the X7 via optical and line out to a Jotunheim which drives the Ether C Flows. I suppose I could go the g6 route, but it feels like then I’d be potentially double DAC’ing (ps5 to g6 via usb to X7 via digital line out to Jotunheim via RCA line out. X7). even with upgraded op-amps, feels redundant in this scenario.

Alternatively, I could just get the Penrose and go wireless.

The million dollar question remains: how good is Tempest, and is it so much better than SBX that it would be worth downgrading my DAC (x7 with sparkos op-amps to g6)?

This has all been very helpful. Eager to hear more impressions.

You can use the G6 as the DAC, and use an Amp with it. No need to attach a dac to the G6. I attached the Modi because it got me a little more volume.

As for Tempest vs things like the SBX... give me a moment, I will try and explain ass great as I can about what's better and what's worse....

@kellte2

Ok so Sony's Tempest 3D audio:

This best way I can explain is:

You have a headphone. You all are used to how your headphone sounds, right?

Well, think of Tempest as being exactly like how your headphones sounds in stereo, but adding a layer of dimensionality. It still sounds like your headphones, but with more space next to your head. More directionality, so instead of just left/right with subtle front and back imaging, the effect is more surround-ish, but still within a heaphone's "headspace"

You know how there are people that HAAAAAATE virtual surround because to them it sounds 'fake', 'processed', or 'too much reverb'? Well, Tempest audio will satisfy them because it does not change the inherent sound of the headphones used. It's the least amount of changes to a headphone that I've heard to date, while adding some surround immersion without it sounding like literally anything else we've been accustomed to.

Basically, it's your headphones but with a nice dimentional effect that works incredibly well, and is truly immersive.

Do I like it? I love it. Will it replace SBX, GSX, Dolby Headphone, Atmos, Waves NX? No. Why?

The answer is because each of those is meant to turn your headphones into a virtual set of speakers in a virtual room. No longer do headphones sound like headphones with our well known and tested VSS solutions. They're headphones that have been TRANSFORMED to virtual speakers. This is something haters do not understand. You're not meant to compare your headphones to how your headphones sound with VSS. Why? Because it no longer has a headphone's sound.

So why won't it replace the VSS solutions?

Because VSS like SBX and Waves, etc, has much more dimensionality, space, and stage to place objects in front, behind and around us. You can easily tell when something is behind you, because you can imagine it's a few feet behind you.

Sony's Tempest 3D Audio can't compete with that level of spaciousness and size. It is restricted to a headphone's general headspace. So rear sound cues sound like they're next to your ears as opposed to VSS placing rear sound cues a few feet behind you.

So there's the difference. Tempest allows headphones retain their sound with more dimensionality, while VSS transforms your headphones to virtual speakers that no longer sound like headphones. Two VERY different outcomes.

Tempest = headphone audio with some surround
VSS = virtual speakers in a virtual room

Tempest =/= VSS

 

[Radio81]

G5 should also be an option. That was only stereo on PS4 but it should make for a decent headset amp for the PS5 now that the surround is processed at the system level . On low gain, I get similar volume level between the G5 and Magni 3. I don't have anything that would need high gain. All of my gear is 50ohm or less. I think the noise floor is a little lower on the Magni though.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

G5 should also be an option. That was only stereo on PS4 but it should make for a decent headset amp for the PS5 now that the surround is processed at the system level . On low gain, I get similar volume level between the G5 and Magni 3. I don't have anything that would need high gain. All of my gear is 50ohm or less. I think the noise floor is a little lower on the Magni though.

low ohm =/= easy to drive.

There are 20-ish ohm headphones that needs vastly more power than 600ohm headphones. Correlation some times, but causation, absolutely not.

To get a nice volume out of the 6XX, I needed to max out the G6 volume. If you think that's enough, well, I dunno what to tell you. Literally no headroom. So I'd definitely be cautious about what gear you have. You may find a G6 alone to not be enough.

I'd practice caution. Yes, easier to drive headphones should be fine for the G6 (and maybe the G5). But if you own multiple headphones, make sure they're not hard to drive.

 

[Rozzko]

@kellte2

Ok so Sony's Tempest 3D audio:

This best way I can explain is:

You have a headphone. You all are used to how your headphone sounds, right?

Well, think of Tempest as being exactly like how your headphones sounds in stereo, but adding a layer of dimensionality. It still sounds like your headphones, but with more space next to your head. More directionality, so instead of just left/right with subtle front and back imaging, the effect is more surround-ish, but still within a heaphone's "headspace"

You know how there are people that HAAAAAATE virtual surround because to them it sounds 'fake', 'processed', or 'too much reverb'? Well, Tempest audio will satisfy them because it does not change the inherent sound of the headphones used. It's the least amount of changes to a headphone that I've heard to date, while adding some surround immersion without it sounding like literally anything else we've been accustomed to.

Basically, it's your headphones but with a nice dimentional effect that works incredibly well, and is truly immersive.

Do I like it? I love it. Will it replace SBX, GSX, Dolby Headphone, Atmos, Waves NX? No. Why?

The answer is because each of those is meant to turn your headphones into a virtual set of speakers in a virtual room. No longer do headphones sound like headphones with our well known and tested VSS solutions. They're headphones that have been TRANSFORMED to virtual speakers. This is something haters do not understand. You're not meant to compare your headphones to how your headphones sound with VSS. Why? Because it no longer has a headphone's sound.

So why won't it replace the VSS solutions?

Because VSS like SBX and Waves, etc, has much more dimensionality, space, and stage to place objects in front, behind and around us. You can easily tell when something is behind you, because you can imagine it's a few feet behind you.

Sony's Tempest 3D Audio can't compete with that level of spaciousness and size. It is restricted to a headphone's general headspace. So rear sound cues sound like they're next to your ears as opposed to VSS placing rear sound cues a few feet behind you.

So there's the difference. Tempest allows headphones retain their sound with more dimensionality, while VSS transforms your headphones to virtual speakers that no longer sound like headphones. Two VERY different outcomes.

Tempest = headphone audio with some surround
VSS = virtual speakers in a virtual room

Tempest =/= VSS

1. In what games you trying tempest? I told before that some games has better 3D sound,
And give more quality VSS with tempest technology. Try demons souls and spider man morales, the have it’s more cool 3D sound
2. What’s about amp from dual sense? Amp power = DualShock 4? Or maybe dual sense has better amp for 3,5 jack for low ohm headphones?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

1. In what games you trying tempest? I told before that some games has better 3D sound,
And give more quality VSS with tempest technology. Try demons souls and spider man morales, the have it’s more cool 3D sound
2. What’s about amp from dual sense? Amp power = DualShock 4? Or maybe dual sense has better amp for 3,5 jack for low ohm headphones?

Better 3D audio is fine, but it's still limited to a headphone headspace. VSS transforms to something else entirely.

3D audio may have vertical cues, which VSS does not. But in terms of rear audio legibility, I'd take VSS any time.

I've tried Black Ops Cold War and Astro's Playroom, so far. Both have it. Like I said, I really love it, but it wouldn't replace VSS for me.

It's different, and GREAT. But better? I'd argue not.

I'd get killed by people behind me much more with Tempest, than with VSS.

But I'd wager most general consumers WILL prefer Tempest. Because it affects a headphone's sound quality much less. With VSS you sacrifice quality for the benefit of surround speaker-like audio.

 

[UrsusMajor]

Just tested. Works perfectly! 3D Audio is a go!

As for SBX, I don't think you'll wanna use that, because I believe this is picked up as a 2 channel device, so I wouldn't recommend using SBX.

Sorry for the delay in testing! I had to do some updates.

So I take it the ideal setup is: PS5 -> G6 via USB. Then G6 -> headphones via 3.5mm if easy-to-drive. If using difficult-to-drive cans you would then go G6 -> Amp via optical, and then Amp -> headphones?

But this is just for Tempest, is there a way to disable Tempest so that you can utilise traditional SBX 5.1/7.1 on the PS5?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Not amp via optical. Amp via analog out (the G6 optical and analog out are in the same output, confusingly enough). Just trying to be technically correct. Optical is digital, so if you wanna use optical out from the G6, you'll need a dac like the Modi 3 with an optical in. I don't think it's necessary though. Just G6 - analog out - amp. Just make sure it's a powerful amp. Even a Hel's amp section didn't change output volume noticeably. So I personally recommend at LEAST a Magni 3 Heresy or Magni 3+ level of power output and gain.

But this is just for Tempest, is there a way to disable Tempest so that you can utilise traditional SBX 5.1/7.1 on the PS5?

Yes, you can.

Set the Ps5 to output sound as Bitstream Dolby, and send autio through the HDMI to the TV or HDMI splitter that has an optical out (and passthrough dolby digital).

So Ps5 hdmi to TV, then TV's optical out to your gaming amp/dac that has virtual surround.

For me, that would be the Mixamp 5.8 which I have connetced to my TV's optical out. The Mixamp 5.8 has Dolby Headphone which I use. It also has an optical passthrough which I can send to the G6 if I wanna use SBX.

 

[stavros.m]

@Mad Lust Envy when you have a chance can you connect the Mobius into the PS5 USB to see if tempest works or in the controller. I guess the controller would be more convenient

thanks

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Oh shoot, I forgot about the Mobius. I'll do it right now! I'm sorry! I got caught up in all the other stuff!