[Evshrug]

Who knows what Mad is thinking about next? What @danterikxx already has are legendary for gaming with right now though

I would suggest he invests a little think time to what he would like to see improved about his current setup. Both headphones have room to benefit from upgrading the signal chain. Has he explored some DSP yet (like a variant of surround that works for him), an amp that unlocks snappy bass and crystalizes the highs, or maybe a DAC that sounds just that much more natural and organic? Those are all components that could individually cost up to $300, providing benefits now and setting him up for any future headphone purchases he might make.

You know the old saying: a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I'm under

I'm going to guess the Audeze Penrose

I already said that was coming. This is something else.

I put wireless things in their own category, and doesn't fare worse or better than the main category of having your own dac/amp, etc. More traditional setup.

Like, I'm not going to tell you to get a wireless headphone over a wired one, or vice versa. To me, they're apples to oranges, and both can be worth having.

 

[danterikxx]

Who knows what Mad is thinking about next? What @danterikxx already has are legendary for gaming with right now though

I would suggest he invests a little think time to what he would like to see improved about his current setup. Both headphones have room to benefit from upgrading the signal chain. Has he explored some DSP yet (like a variant of surround that works for him), an amp that unlocks snappy bass and crystalizes the highs, or maybe a DAC that sounds just that much more natural and organic? Those are all components that could individually cost up to $300, providing benefits now and setting him up for any future headphone purchases he might make.

You know the old saying: a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!

Bu DSP with suround you mean some sort of 7.1 and all that?

i'm all open to suggestions. you guys are the experts here

 

[Chastity]

Bu DSP with suround you mean some sort of 7.1 and all that?

i'm all open to suggestions. you guys are the experts here

Output power, 24 mW: 300 ohm at THD 0.001%

I think you are due for a DAC/amp I was thinking something like the iFi Zen DAC for $150 USD if you are looking for an all-in-one. Otherwise, you have the $200 stacks from Schiit or JDS Labs. Or you can consider as well adding a tube buffer preamp, or get something like the Vali / Little Dot's

 

[danterikxx]

Output power, 24 mW: 300 ohm at THD 0.001%

I think you are due for a DAC/amp I was thinking something like the iFi Zen DAC for $150 USD if you are looking for an all-in-one. Otherwise, you have the $200 stacks from Schiit or JDS Labs. Or you can consider as well adding a tube buffer preamp, or get something like the Vali / Little Dot's

i have the SMSL M3 and it works fine so far. It could use more power for the K702 tho.

the thing is that i might need a dac/amp with optical. That's what i used on my PS4. Dunno if the PS5 will have one or not

depending on that, i might choose something between the iFi Zen or the FiiO K5 Pro. What do you think of this one?

 

[WhiteHartMart]

For $300, there's something upcoming I can't talk about yet that is going to cost less than that and would probably be my new recommendation. You'll have to wait around a month or so though for more info.

Looking forward to finding out what this is. I'm hoping/betting on a new Epos Gaming or Beyerdynamic headset solution just in time for next gen consoles. If its the latter I'm praying for a removable cable

 

[Evshrug]

Bu DSP with suround you mean some sort of 7.1 and all that?

i'm all open to suggestions. you guys are the experts here

Yes, a DSP (Digital Signal Processor) can do things like headphone surround, or also equalization and decoding of signals like Dolby Atmos or DSD. Sometimes you can also use them to control the “mix” of simultaneous inputs, like audio from Optical and USB at the same time. So, like an audio computer (sometimes just software on a PC), a DSP can do many things.

Those times I heard a Smyth Realizer (a very expensive DSP) emulating a theater room were impressive: the sense of direction was precise, but equally impressive was how it made the headphones sound just like the speakers they were using in the room for demo... not similar, but so close that they had the speakers set to switch off when the unit sensed you put the headphones on or off, and the switch was seamless for me – but not for everyone else in the room who suddenly stopped hearing the speakers!

I’m not saying you need to buy a full-fledgedhone theater emulator like that (last I heard the US price was $4000), but there are sound cards and external DSPs from companies like I covered on my YouTube channel (Evshrug) and my “If I Knew Then...” head-fi thread linked in my signature. I’ve bought some for $20, $70, $100, $120, up to $300, with some of them being complete DSP/DAC/amp solutions, and some of them having more power for more demanding applications.

I already described briefly what benefits can come from an upgraded amp (tighter, richer bass with more deep notes, snappier highs that can “sparkle” with all the metaphorical precision of a cut gemstone, and an overall improvement in refinement and control) and an upgraded DAC (more natural, organic sound that is more engaging and lively to listen to, rather than digitized and dulled). You don’t have to spend as much as me, but every step has been an incremental improvement.

As my posting and gear history will show, I currently use a Sennheiser HDV 820 as my DAC/Amp and a Smyth Realiser A16 as my DSP (I was a Kickstarter early bird), but before that I had a Cavalli Liquid Carbon amp, a custom tube hybrid amp, Fostex HP-A4 amp/DAC, Chord Mojo DAC, Schiit Bifrost Uber DAC, Sennheiser GSX1000, Creative X7 DSP/DAC/Amp, Creative Omni 5.1, Creative Recon3D USB, and a Turtle Beach DSS and DSS2.Those might give you some ideas, but there are literally sooo many great options including the most popular offerings and beyond.

 

[danterikxx]

Yes, a DSP (Digital Signal Processor) can do things like headphone surround, or also equalization and decoding of signals like Dolby Atmos or DSD. Sometimes you can also use them to control the “mix” of simultaneous inputs, like audio from Optical and USB at the same time. So, like an audio computer (sometimes just software on a PC), a DSP can do many things.

Those times I heard a Smyth Realizer (a very expensive DSP) emulating a theater room were impressive: the sense of direction was precise, but equally impressive was how it made the headphones sound just like the speakers they were using in the room for demo... not similar, but so close that they had the speakers set to switch off when the unit sensed you put the headphones on or off, and the switch was seamless for me – but not for everyone else in the room who suddenly stopped hearing the speakers!

I’m not saying you need to buy a full-fledgedhone theater emulator like that (last I heard the US price was $4000), but there are sound cards and external DSPs from companies like I covered on my YouTube channel (Evshrug) and my “If I Knew Then...” head-fi thread linked in my signature. I’ve bought some for $20, $70, $100, $120, up to $300, with some of them being complete DSP/DAC/amp solutions, and some of them having more power for more demanding applications.

I already described briefly what benefits can come from an upgraded amp (tighter, richer bass with more deep notes, snappier highs that can “sparkle” with all the metaphorical precision of a cut gemstone, and an overall improvement in refinement and control) and an upgraded DAC (more natural, organic sound that is more engaging and lively to listen to, rather than digitized and dulled). You don’t have to spend as much as me, but every step has been an incremental improvement.

As my posting and gear history will show, I currently use a Sennheiser HDV 820 as my DAC/Amp and a Smyth Realiser A16 as my DSP (I was a Kickstarter early bird), but before that I had a Cavalli Liquid Carbon amp, a custom tube hybrid amp, Fostex HP-A4 amp/DAC, Chord Mojo DAC, Schiit Bifrost Uber DAC, Sennheiser GSX1000, Creative X7 DSP/DAC/Amp, Creative Omni 5.1, Creative Recon3D USB, and a Turtle Beach DSS and DSS2.Those might give you some ideas, but there are literally sooo many great options including the most popular offerings and beyond.

That was a nice, rich and thoughtful explanation

So, in your opinion, i'm good what i got in terms of headphones for gaming, and should start looking for better complementary gear?

Also, saw you channel (subscribed btw) and saw that you also game on PS4. What do you used for that ( it's where i play. or used to play, since i sold it to buy the PS5)?

Apparently the PS5 will have a 3D Audio Tempest engine out of the box. Very excited to try that as well.

 

[Evshrug]

Hey, thanks for the subscription!!! I saw! I'm actually feeling motivated to make a go of regular videos about audio again... once I got used to talking about that sort of thing (and invested all this TIME in learning!), I really started to miss it when not doing it. Expect at least a video this week.

There are a few side-grades within your price range when it comes to headphones, but both the HD 598/599 and the AKG are elite-tier for soundstage size with gaming, and yeah I think a DSP with surround will open your ears to a significantly different and more immersive experience. A DSP with an optical input is the most practical choice for playing on consoles... few sound devices with headphone surround have HDMI passthrough (might be hard to find a big old Audio Video Receiver/AVR with headphone surround... Yamaha may still be including Silent Cinema with their AVRs, but it wasn't very impressive), and licensed Playstation USB devices with surround that work with your headphones are rare, so Optical is preferred. I don't have complaints about the DSPs I listed in my ownership history. I feel pretty future-proofed with my Smyth Realizer A16, but you might be best off waiting until the PS5 actually releases, see if it still has optical or if you can get Tempest 3D headphone audio out through USB, or if Sony makes it harder to use 3rd party audio gear (Sony at least gave the option of stereo USB audio with the PS4, Xbox One did not).

I am also excited to see if Sony and Microsoft truly commit to Headphone Surround this generation! They promised it last generation as well... but it only happened with a few select titles (like DICE and Naughty Dog games) and those used software DSP's programmed into the game. PSVR has full 3D surround, and it's glorious! The HD 500 series headphones are easier to drive in that situation than a K702, because the DAC/Amp is built into the PSVR's cable/headset and a big amp would be pretty heavy to wear.

 

[danterikxx]

Hey, thanks for the subscription!!! I'm actually feeling motivated to make a go of regular videos about audio again... once I got used to talking about that sort of thing (and invested all this TIME in learning!), I really started to miss it when not doing it. Expect at least a video this week.

There are a few side-grades within your price range when it comes to headphones, but both the HD 598/599 and the AKG are elite-tier for soundstage size with gaming, and yeah I think a DSP with surround will open your ears to a significantly different and more immersive experience. A DSP with an optical input is the most practical choice for playing on consoles... few sound devices with headphone surround have HDMI passthrough (might be hard to find a big old Audio Video Receiver/AVR with headphone surround... Yamaha may still be including Silent Cinema with their AVRs, but it wasn't very impressive), and licensed Playstation USB devices with surround that work with your headphones are rare, so Optical is preferred. I don't have complaints about the DSPs I listed in my ownership history. I feel pretty future-proofed with my Smyth Realizer A16, but you might be best off waiting until the PS5 actually releases, see if it still has optical or if you can get Tempest 3D headphone audio out through USB, or if Sony makes it harder to use 3rd party audio gear (Sony at least gave the option of stereo USB audio with the PS4, Xbox One did not).

I am also excited to see if Sony and Microsoft truly commit to Headphone Surround this generation! They promised it last generation as well... but it only happened with a few select titles (like DICE and Naughty Dog games) and those used software DSP's programmed into the game. PSVR has full 3D surround, and it's glorious! The HD 500 series headphones are easier to drive in that situation than a K702, because the DAC/Amp is built into the PSVR's cable/headset and a big amp would be pretty heavy to wear.

oh i know about the optical vs USB situation on consoles. Tried to use it with USB and....it didn't go so well. So, i only use optical, and USB on PC with the SMSL M3

Sony seems commited to implement the 3D audio for real this time around, and not just on their Naughy Dog games.Had an amazing experience with the AKG playing The Last of Us Part II, even without 3D, because that was exclusive to their Platinum Wireless headset

https://www.pushsquare.com/guides/ps5-3d-audio-what-is-playstation-5s-tempest-engine

I hope they still keep the Optical input. It's gone on the new Xbox Series X. It would be messed up if they remove it and still dont add USB support

As for sidegrades, could those be in the line of 600/6XX/58X or 4XX? Not into Beyers, because the non detachable cable is a big turn-off for me

My dream headphone is the one you use, ehehe. 800s would be amazing for my particular application

 

[Zachik]

I am also excited to see if Sony and Microsoft truly commit to Headphone Surround this generation! They promised it last generation as well...

I am curious:
Why do you care, since you have the Smyth Realiser anyhow? Any standard 5.1 or 7.1 would just work great with it. Right?
(as a side note, I still kick myself for not joining the KS early on... $2K seemed a lot back then, and now they're $4K )

 

[Radio81]

I still can't believe we haven't seen the back panel of the PS5. I think a lot of us are waiting to see if it has optical or not. I'm going to bet it doesn't. I'm highly optimistic in doing so the PS5 will send processed surround audio via USB. If that's the case, then some of my DSP's that are stereo only on PS4 should be capable of surround on PS5. Things like my Creative E5 & G5, as well as my Logitech G533 headset should all be capable of surround audio on PS5.

That's just my speculation. Hopefully we will know more about the PS5 soon.

 

[danterikxx]

I still can't believe we haven't seen the back panel of the PS5. I think a lot of us are waiting to see if it has optical or not. I'm going to bet it doesn't. I'm highly optimistic in doing so the PS5 will send processed surround audio via USB. If that's the case, then some of my DSP's that are stereo only on PS4 should be capable of surround on PS5. Things like my Creative E5 & G5, as well as my Logitech G533 headset should all be capable of surround audio on PS5.

That's just my speculation. Hopefully we will know more about the PS5 soon.

I know right?

i've got some decisions on stand-by because of that

but i'm optimistic too, because they want every headphone to have their 3D sound processing, and not just the Playstation headsets

 

[Evshrug]

It would be very generous if the console would process the surround for us, and make a binaural stereo mix before sending that out through USB Audio. For the last two generations, Xbox and PlayStation have charged a license royalty per-unit-sold to have full USB audio support. Most 3rd parties couldn’t price a headphone affordable enough for consumers to consider AND pay this license, so we ended up in this chicken-and-the-egg situation where people couldn’t easily get high-quality headphone surround, so they pass it off as an unnecessary gimmick, and so manufacturers don’t see a demand for it.

At least Sony supported generic 2.0 Audio out through USB (and input from Microphones), and as always I have hope for an even better situation in the next generation. “IF” 7.1 (which is 2D) or object-based Audio (3D) support becomes available over USB, I highly recommend everyone stock up on the cheap but quality Belkin Gold Series USB A to B cable, short as possible for your setup.

I am curious:
Why do you care, since you have the Smyth Realiser anyhow? Any standard 5.1 or 7.1 would just work great with it. Right?
(as a side note, I still kick myself for not joining the KS early on... $2K seemed a lot back then, and now they're $4K )

Well...
A couple reasons, and the first one might seem funny. I should make a video.

But yeah, the PS4 supports LPCM 7.1 (no need to bitstream Dolby or DTS), and since that’s the max that most games support right now, it’s good. But HEIGHT channels, man!

(I backed it within the first 20 minutes, so I got the super early bird price).

 

[danterikxx]

wh

Well...
A couple reasons, and the first one might seem funny. I should make a video.

But yeah, the PS4 supports LPCM 7.1 (no need to bitstream Dolby or DTS), and since that’s the max that most games support right now, it’s good. But HEIGHT channels, man!

(I backed it within the first 20 minutes, so I got the super early bird price).

what setup do you use on PS4?