[Chastity]

Ok so you actually paid for an Atmos surround license for headphones and you use it in conjunction with SFXI? It never occurred to me you could use both. Interesting.

Too bad the X3 doesn't have a line out. I have a better headphone amp than what the X3 can provide.

The X3 has 5.1 outs, why can't the fronts be used for Line-Out?

 

[Corbis]

The X3 has 5.1 outs, why can't the fronts be used for Line-Out?

err.....mainly because the front line out are only carrying the front surround signals??? What about the the other line outs(side, rear one, center/sub)?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Let me just remind everyone that when you're using stuff like SXFI, Atmos, GSX, etc, make sure the games themselves are NOT set to headphones in their sound settings. I dunno why I have to constantly repeat this, but all these technologies need a home theater/surround speaker setup setting to work properly. NOT HEADPHONES.

Also, don't be that guy that uses two virtual surrounds together. Just don't. They weren't meant to work that way and all your doing is taking a surround feed downmixed to two channels that sounds virtually like surround, and processing that again. What did I say earlier? These things need a full set of "speakers" to properly virtualize into surround. Can't do that when it's already been converted to two speakers by the first tech.

i.e.

Game with 7.1 + Atmos headphone = 2 channels Atmos surround (headphones are two channel, so there's no way to keep 7.1 if you're listening to headphones).

2 channels Atmos surround + GSX = botched 2 channels with two virtual surrounds = uuuuh no

GSX, SBX, etc need the original 5.1/7.1 audio.

 

[pietcux]

Ok so you actually paid for an Atmos surround license for headphones and you use it in conjunction with SFXI? It never occurred to me you could use both. Interesting.

Too bad the X3 doesn't have a line out. I have a better headphone amp than what the X3 can provide.

You can always double amp. Headphone out >> Amp line in. But the X3 amp is good enough to drive a HD800. For game sound and movies it is very enjoyable. For music use the X 3 as preamp and your preferred amp as power amp.

 

[pietcux]

Let me just remind everyone that when you're using stuff like SXFI, Atmos, GSX, etc, make sure the games themselves are NOT set to headphones in their sound settings. I dunno why I have to constantly repeat this, but all these technologies need a home theater/surround speaker setup setting to work properly. NOT HEADPHONES.

Also, don't be that guy that uses two virtual surrounds together. Just don't. They weren't meant to work that way and all your doing is taking a surround feed downmixed to two channels that sounds virtually like surround, and processing that again. What did I say earlier? These things need a full set of "speakers" to properly virtualize into surround. Can't do that when it's already been converted to two speakers by the first tech.

i.e.

Game with 7.1 + Atmos headphone = 2 channels Atmos surround (headphones are two channel, so there's no way to keep 7.1 if you're listening to headphones).

2 channels Atmos surround + GSX = botched 2 channels with two virtual surrounds = uuuuh no

GSX, SBX, etc need the original 5.1/7.1 audio.

You are absolutely right on using two virtual surrounds on all other VRSS but SXFI with Atmos plugin. It was on by accident and it did not sound off at all. It was a movie with a native Atmos soundtrack. With the GSX it sounds weird instead.

 

[halcyon]

Just took Ghost is a Shell to check for you. Atmos for Headphones enabled plus SXFI sounds much more out of head than with SXFI disabled. Atmos for Headphone disabled and SXFI on sounds very good too, but less dynamic. But honestly PC Bluray sound is still a miracle to me. I use Power DVD 17 for this task. So there is nothing off sounding, both effects on sounds simply amazing to me.

7.1 discrete input -> windows Dolby Atmos 7.1 to Stereo decode -> Stereo input to Super X-fi via X3 -> Stereo output.

That is two processing systems right after each other.

The first Atmos does the actual 7.1 -> Stereo VSS downmixing and spatial 3D sound.

What SXFI after that does is just mess up the sound and add more echo/reverb/phase errors.

It may sound "out of your head" due to the phase errors (classic mixing technique) but accurate in terms of positional audio or 3D space it is not. I would NOT use this for FPS gaming, where recognizing the sound direction is actually important. For movies and for "out of your head effect" perhaps.

YMMV, of course.

 

[Scriba]

With my DT 1990 it's more easy to recognize the position of the enemys if I have stereo on. I tried the DT 1990 with de mixamp surround and it was worse (echo/reverb nothing else). May I need to try with ingame audio settings set to speakers instead headphones.

 

[stavros.m]

Does the X3 SXFI work on PS4 i see i check mark on the site but i was reading somewhere i think hear say it doesn't can anyone confirm this. Also is there any difference between the sxfi x3 and air headphones. Thanks

 

[RedJohn456]

Let me just remind everyone that when you're using stuff like SXFI, Atmos, GSX, etc, make sure the games themselves are NOT set to headphones in their sound settings. I dunno why I have to constantly repeat this, but all these technologies need a home theater/surround speaker setup setting to work properly. NOT HEADPHONES.

Also, don't be that guy that uses two virtual surrounds together. Just don't. They weren't meant to work that way and all your doing is taking a surround feed downmixed to two channels that sounds virtually like surround, and processing that again. What did I say earlier? These things need a full set of "speakers" to properly virtualize into surround. Can't do that when it's already been converted to two speakers by the first tech.

i.e.

Game with 7.1 + Atmos headphone = 2 channels Atmos surround (headphones are two channel, so there's no way to keep 7.1 if you're listening to headphones).

2 channels Atmos surround + GSX = botched 2 channels with two virtual surrounds = uuuuh no

GSX, SBX, etc need the original 5.1/7.1 audio.

I got my first gaming dac, astro mix amp pro TR for PC and trying to set it up for use with my headphones. I initially had the in game audio in Battlefield V to 3d headphones and the surround sound option in the astro mix amp to off.

The menu option looks like this:

So going by your post, I should have the output configuration to Surround and Sound preset to Speakers? And keep the Surround processing option on Astro mix amp off?

Edit: wondering if I should get the Soundblaster X3 and return the Mixamp, as I got the mixamp just to plug my phone in when playing video games.

 

[pietcux]

7.1 discrete input -> windows Dolby Atmos 7.1 to Stereo decode -> Stereo input to Super X-fi via X3 -> Stereo output.

That is two processing systems right after each other.

The first Atmos does the actual 7.1 -> Stereo VSS downmixing and spatial 3D sound.

What SXFI after that does is just mess up the sound and add more echo/reverb/phase errors.

It may sound "out of your head" due to the phase errors (classic mixing technique) but accurate in terms of positional audio or 3D space it is not. I would NOT use this for FPS gaming, where recognizing the sound direction is actually important. For movies and for "out of your head effect" perhaps.

YMMV, of course.

Real Atmos is not 7.1, it is 9.2 or more.
SXFI used alone on the Atmos soundtrack of Ghost in the Shell sounds very out of the head already.
Activating the Atmos plugin just happened because W10 decided to use it for an Atmos signal.
And I liked the result. The positional cues were very accurate.
I can very good differentiate between messed up tricks and well done simulation.
At the end of all VSS it is a 2 channel signal to the two headphone drivers, isn't it?
The X3 is a very interesting device due to it's SXFI in my opinion, if interested in VSS it is a must buy.

 

[halcyon]

Real Atmos is not 7.1, it is 9.2 or more.

Pure Dolby Atmos MIX is anything from 5.1 to 24.1.10 channels.

Dolby ATMOS ALGORITHM in Windows 10 is responsible for downmixing this multichannel MIX into a stereo mix (3D virtual surround) using a generic HRTF and some other proprietary technology to try and retain some of the direction/depth/size/space/room/distance information in the Dolby Atmos MIX.

SXFI used alone on the Atmos soundtrack of Ghost in the Shell sounds very out of the head already.

If you have a Dolby Atmos MIX soundtrack in a game (not using the Windows 10 Dolby Atmos algo), it is already a downmixed to stereo.

That is, the multichannel mix is already downmixed to stereo channels and has one layer of 3D Virtual Surround applied.

Turning on Super X-Fi on top of that won't make it any more Virtual or 3D, it will just mask/distort the original Dolby Atmos downmix by applying ANOTHER layer of Virtual Surround on top of it, AND doing it from a 2-channel source (that has already been virtualized). Super X-fi cannot guess multichannel data from the Dolby Atmost stereo downmix and calculate ANYTHING useful to that stereo mix. It will just add new layers of echo/reverb and phase errors.

And I liked the result. The positional cues were very accurate.

It is perfectly ok to like the result, I'm sure it can even sound more "out of your head" (phase shifting does that). That can indeed sound fun and more spatial.

However to call it accurate (to what the original author intended) or accurate in terms of directionality when compared to NOT applying the Super X-fi distortion (to already 3D VSS Atmos signal) is perhaps not the most accurate or honest portrayl of what is happening.

I can very good differentiate between messed up tricks and well done simulation.

That may be so, but in this guess you were either fooled or didn't understand what was happening. Super X-fi can NOT:

- Take in undecoded pure bitstream PCM Dolby Atmost signal (Super X-Fi does not have Dolby Atmost licensing and does NOT know how to decode Dolby atmos data).

- Can only apply Super X-fi echo/reverb/phase shifting to a downmixed Dolby Atmos STEREO signal that has already been downmixed by the in-game (or Windows 10) Dolby Atmos algorithm. That is, Super X-fi IS NOT applying these effects to a discrete multichannel signal and does not know how to properly place the sound streams into the 3D space it is trying to create.

What Super X-fi in Creative Sound Blaster X3 CAN do:

- Super X-fi CAN take NON-Dolby multichannel (up to 7.1) discrete audio signals (from game, etc) that is NOT yet downmixed (by Dolby/DTS or any other algo) into stereo, and downmix that multichannel signal itself into stereo Virtual Surround 3D audio mix using the proprietary Creative Super X-Fi personalized HRTF algo.

At the end of all VSS it is a 2 channel signal to the two headphone drivers, isn't it?

Yes. But doing multiple VSS algos on top of each other on a STEREO signal doesn't make it better.

The X3 is a very interesting device due to it's SXFI in my opinion, if interested in VSS it is a must buy.

I don't doub that, but based on how Creative implemented it (no ability to adjust the VSS effects esp reverb/echo in Super X-fi algo), perhaps it is not for me.

I don't want an artificial 3D spatial feeling of a "room" applied to my discrete multichannel gaming audio input, if the game happens in open space...

 

[halcyon]

Does the X3 SXFI work on PS4 i see i check mark on the site but i was reading somewhere i think hear say it doesn't can anyone confirm this. Also is there any difference between the sxfi x3 and air headphones. Thanks

It works, but it can only do fake 3D Virtual sound as it can NOT input any discrete multichannel input and downmix that to Virtualized 3D Surround stereo (headphones sound).

It can only input Stereo signal and make some spatial trickery into that, and make it sound more "spatial".

But it will not be competition for Sound Blaster X7 , that can take Dolby Digital 5.1 multichannel mix from say PS4 game (provided it gives that output) AND then downmix that signal into a proper 3D Virtual Surround stereo.

So, on PS4 X3 is "fake 3D VSS" whereas X7 is "real 3D VSS" if being fed proper multichannel Dolby digital signal.

META: 3D Virtual Sound and Positional 3D Audio should NOT be this hard Voodoo on Windows. Most users are completely baffled and don't understand what is happening.

Microsoft, Dolby, DTS, Creative and the rest let us down.

We should be able to get original Positional 3D audio and be able to dowmix that using OUR algo of choice, to our own personalized HRTF, and outputting it to as many channel output device (2.0, 2.1,, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.2, etc) as we WANT and still have accurate, detailed, believable and non-false Spatial audio in games, movies, etc.

This is not hard. The algos, know-how and the technology has been known for years and the CPUs have been powerful enough for more than 10 years now to do this in real-time.

We were let down by all of the above and first and foremost Microsoft.

The trouble is that they now HAVE to fix it for Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality, where Accurate, detailed and believable, low-latency positional 3D audio is becoming first a differentiating factor and later on a minimum requirement for believable immersion.

And what Microsoft is currently offering as a solution (Windows Sonic), doesn't leave me with high hopes.

 

[stavros.m]

It works, but it can only do fake 3D Virtual sound as it can NOT input any discrete multichannel input and downmix that to Virtualized 3D Surround stereo (headphones sound).

It can only input Stereo signal and make some spatial trickery into that, and make it sound more "spatial".

But it will not be competition for Sound Blaster X7 , that can take Dolby Digital 5.1 multichannel mix from say PS4 game (provided it gives that output) AND then downmix that signal into a proper 3D Virtual Surround stereo.

So, on PS4 X3 is "fake 3D VSS" whereas X7 is "real 3D VSS" if being fed proper multichannel Dolby digital signal.

thank you for that. So something like the G6 would be better for PS4 and i am assuming its "fake 3D" also for the nintendo switch

 

[inseconds99]

Just purchased and HD800 S to pair with my X7 for awesome virtual gaming. I do have one question, if I buy a Topping DX7 Pro to upgrade my Dac/Amp for music. Can I go optical out from X7 to the Topping and get the awesome virtual surround but with the benefit of that amps power? Also does the optical out on the X7 do pass through, so I don’t have to disconnect it every time I want reference sound for music?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I got my first gaming dac, astro mix amp pro TR for PC and trying to set it up for use with my headphones. I initially had the in game audio in Battlefield V to 3d headphones and the surround sound option in the astro mix amp to off.

The menu option looks like this:


So going by your post, I should have the output configuration to Surround and Sound preset to Speakers? And keep the Surround processing option on Astro mix amp off?

Edit: wondering if I should get the Soundblaster X3 and return the Mixamp, as I got the mixamp just to plug my phone in when playing video games.

For the Mixamp, I'm not even sure it can grab proper surround from a PC. Unless the PC is connected to the Mixamp from a optical cable and the sound devices on the PC says Dolby Digital,m you're not gonna get the proper audio from a PC anyways, so you may as well use any amp.

So for you, using the headphone option in the game would be right, since the Mixamp can't properly do virtual surround anyways.

The Mixamp is very limited in terms of PC use.

Had you been on console, and the console outputting in Dolby Digital, then the game should've been set to output 'home thetaer' or something close to that, surround, and speakers. Nothing that says headphones. Remember you're trying to extract a home theater setup's sound, and the Mixamp itself would be converting that to a 'headphone' surround. This is why headphone options in game are NOT correct. You wouldn't be allowing the Mixamp to do what it should do properly (when you have the surround function turned on).


A real bad example: Think of it like trying turn audio from cd to mp3. Your Mixamp is a cd to mp3 converter, so you want the original file to stay as cd. If you already have another program's setting that turned the audio to mp3, then there wouldn't be any benefit to using the Mixamp in that case, and you would not let it do what it was meant to do.