[Yethal]

Well, the

Well, granted the Sony doesn’t offer surround outside of PlayStation 4 usage, it can be used for non-surround purposes with devices other than PS and it is not the case that it only offers surround for games like Uncharted 4. Sony’s VSS algorithm works for any game played on PS4. It is the 3D, object based audio with height effects that is confined to certain big Sony exclusives and for those the Platinum headset is the only way to get 3D audio fullstop.

Moreover, as for “sounding like crap”, while I would always recommend a good pair of open-backed non-gaming headphones over a gaming headset in any general scenario, I don’t subscribe to the notion that gaming headset automatically = “crap sound”, not least because I’ve tried most of the options discussed (platinum, Astro, Arctis and Sennheiser RS195). For a first time buyer whose priorities are PS4 and wireless, the Platinum headset offers decent audio, is an all-in-one solution with respect to surround and mic and is relatively very cheap. While a G6 plus wireless Senns with optical in plus Modmic may offer better audio quality, I wouldn’t say they sound three times better or anywhere near that which is what the difference in cost would be.

Of course an all in one solution is more cost efficient and easier to deploy for first time buyers. It's just that simple solutions were never really a focus around here

 

[royster]

How are the software based VSS (Dolby Atmos, Windows Sonic, DTS Headphone X) compared to the hardware solutions nowadays? Is it better to get a headphone you like with a good soundstage and use that over something like the Creative SXFI? I currently use an hd 650.

 

[illram]

False. My Clears have a narrow soundstage and with SBX added it's still narrow. $120 PC37X outperforms them when it comes to positioning in virtual surround

Interesting. Are Clears known for great imaging? (Genuine question, never looked into Focals much.)

 

[Yethal]

Interesting. Are Clears known for great imaging? (Genuine question, never looked into Focals much.)

Splendid imaging, very narrow soundstage, just like Elear and Utopia.

 

[illram]

How are the software based VSS (Dolby Atmos, Windows Sonic, DTS Headphone X) compared to the hardware solutions nowadays? Is it better to get a headphone you like with a good soundstage and use that over something like the Creative SXFI? I currently use an hd 650.

Depends on what games you play. Borderlands 3 with Atmos sounds incredible. When I played around briefly with Overwatch and Atmos it also sounded pretty good. I have not yet tried Dolby's 7.1 virtualization for games without spatial audio yet so I can't compare it to SXFI. With SXFI you know you are going to get a baseline of very very accurate 7.1 virtualization with anything that has surround audio, which is basically everything. But you miss vertical cues that you can get with a good Atmos feed and good cans.

 

[Yedaself]

Well, granted the Sony doesn’t offer surround outside of PlayStation 4 usage, but it can be used for non-surround purposes with devices other than PS and it is not the case that it only offers surround for games like Uncharted 4. Sony’s VSS algorithm works for any game played on PS4. It is the 3D, object based audio with height effects that is confined to certain big Sony exclusives and for those the Platinum headset is the only way to get 3D audio fullstop.

Moreover, as for “sounding like crap”, while I would always recommend a good pair of open-backed non-gaming headphones over a gaming headset in any general scenario, I don’t subscribe to the notion that gaming headset automatically = “crap sound”, not least because I’ve tried most of the options discussed (platinum, Astro, Arctis and Sennheiser RS195). For a first time buyer whose priorities are PS4 and wireless, the Platinum headset offers decent audio, is an all-in-one solution with respect to surround and mic and is relatively very cheap. While a G6 plus wireless Senns with optical in plus Modmic may offer better audio quality, I wouldn’t say they sound three times better or anywhere near that which is what the difference in cost would be.

Which open back wired headphone can you recommend for under $150 if I renounce from wireless? More I read wired headphones with dac seems more reasonable but just gonna go for headphones now then will go for a dac. Have to buy from international sellers and with taxes a $150 headphones can cost around $250 to me.

 

[TeeReQs]

Sennheiser PC37X would be a good choice at the price point.

 

[royster]

Depends on what games you play. Borderlands 3 with Atmos sounds incredible. When I played around briefly with Overwatch and Atmos it also sounded pretty good. I have not yet tried Dolby's 7.1 virtualization for games without spatial audio yet so I can't compare it to SXFI. With SXFI you know you are going to get a baseline of very very accurate 7.1 virtualization with anything that has surround audio, which is basically everything. But you miss vertical cues that you can get with a good Atmos feed and good cans.

Thanks. Does the game need to have atmos "implemented" for Dolby Atmos to work? Or does it just make any sound 5.1/7.1? And SXFI just makes everything surround? Ive heard that DTS needs to have it implemented as an option ingame for it to work. What are good hifi/audiophile cans with good soundstage nowadays? Seems most of the top performing audiophile cans (stuff like Focal/HD 650) have small soundstage.

 

[Yedaself]

Sennheiser PC37X would be a good choice at the price point.

Sadly, Drop doesn't ship to my country.

 

[SierraMadre]

Here's a question I've been batting around in my head for a little bit: Assume a headphone has top-tier imaging and detail. For the purposes of virtual surround, with the right EQ, crossfade, etc., that headphone's particular soundstage qualities can be rendered meaningless. E.g. a headphone with a "narrow" stage when just run without any EQ or DSP can still fake a big stage, if you want, assuming its imaging is good enough and you run the appropriate DSP.

Is that true or false? I feel like this has been touched on before but I don't know if there's a definitive answer. I personally feel like this is true. E.g. the ESP950 sounds great with VSS but is not known for its soundstage really.

You raise an interesting question which I have thought about too but in my experience with the auto-EQ plugin for Hesuvi for various headphones along with different forms of VSS, my impression was that there would still be a difference.

Perhaps the closest I got to confirming this (albeit in a subjective and not very scientific manner) was via the SXFI amp. As you probably already know, it has headphone compensation profiles for SXFI mode. There are specific compensation profiles for a selection of popular headphones and for when your headphones are not “SXFI certified” there are generic over-ear, generic on-ear and generic IEM profiles (note I am not talking about the SXFI headmapping, rather the compensation profiles). The change in the sound can be very noticeable between profiles even within the same category (for example one over-ear vs another). While I didn’t do any measurements, one thing that seemed apparent was that there appeared to be no difference whatsoever between the default “generic over ear” profile and that of the specific profile for the ‘Aurvana Live! Special edition’ closed backs that came bundled with the SXFI AMP. In effect, changing the profile from generic over to Aurvana Live Special edition seemed to have no effect at all whether using the Aurvanas in question or whether I was comparing generic vs the Aurvana profile when using *other* headphones such as K7XX, Fildelio X2, HD800S etc. Meanwhile, changing profiles from generic to AKG K7XX, Fidelity’s X2, DT880 or HD800 all resulted in a significant and immediately noticeable difference.

So, assuming that generic and Aurvana Live special edition profiles are indeed the same or at least so very similar as to not be able tell the difference, then that means Creative was / is treating the Aurvana Live Special editions as “reference” or optimum for the purposes of SXFI VSS, I.e. as is, with no compensation necessary.
In any case, whether using the associated compensation profiles or not, in those headphones I tried, the size of soundstage hierarchy was as one would expect. The HD800S was top, followed by the K7XX, the Fidelio X2 not too far behind, and the Aurvana’s last by a considerable margin.

 

[TeeReQs]

Sadly, Drop doesn't ship to my country.

You might be able to find a used pair through eBay, or on here where someone would be willing to ship to you. You could also go for a pair of HD598/599, and buy a detachable mic for them.

 

[SierraMadre]

Thanks. Does the game need to have atmos "implemented" for Dolby Atmos to work? Or does it just make any sound 5.1/7.1? And SXFI just makes everything surround? Ive heard that DTS needs to have it implemented as an option ingame for it to work. What are good hifi/audiophile cans with good soundstage nowadays? Seems most of the top performing audiophile cans (stuff like Focal/HD 650) have small soundstage.

No. Dolby Atmos for headphone when fed vanilla Dolby content is effectively just Dolby’s successor to Dolby headphone and will still result in vanilla virtual 5.1 or 7.1. If and only if fed with Atmos content will the 3D object based processing kick in giving you height effects etc.
SXFI virtualises speakers as per the source content just like other forms of VSS only it uses ear and face mapping along with headphone compensation to optimise and personalize the effect for the user. If that content is plain two channel stereo then the effect will be akin to listening to stereo speakers set in front of you. If the content is already binaural then applying SXFI might result in a greater sense of “3D” audio but I haven’t tried it and it would mean double binauralisation (once during the recording/mixing stage and again when processed by SXFI) which isn’t ideal and is a topic of contention. For virtual 5.1/7.1, the SXFI needs to be fed multichannel PCM surround content via USB.
DTS headphone X does not require an in-game option for 5.1/7.1 virtual surround as, like most other forms of VSS, it is just a post processing algorithm applied to multichannel content. Most of the DAC/amps that feature it apply it to decoded Dolby digital 5.1.

 

[SierraMadre]

Which open back wired headphone can you recommend for under $150 if I renounce from wireless? More I read wired headphones with dac seems more reasonable but just gonna go for headphones now then will go for a dac. Have to buy from international sellers and with taxes a $150 headphones can cost around $250 to me.

The Fidelio X2s are a good choice and often see heavy discounts. Black Friday is approaching and also the release of the successor Fidelio X3s early next year so it should be quite easy to find the X2s within your price range if you can be patient and also diligent in searching for a good deal.

The Philips SHP9500 are also a good choice but you’ll give up some bass and a little bit of soundstage in exchange for them usually being much cheaper than the X2s. They are also about to be succeeded by the 9600model early next year so again, you might be able to find it even cheaper than usual as retailers look to shift inventory in anticipation of the new model.

AKG712 Pro are very good but can fluctuate wildly in pricing. They often see heavy discounts but if you can find one in your price range then they would be well worth it.

If the Sennheiser 37X is out because Drop doesn’t ship to your country then what about the mass retail versions? Sennheiser Game One, 373D etc.

 

[Yedaself]

The Fidelio X2s are a good choice and often see heavy discounts. Black Friday is approaching and also the release of the successor Fidelio X3s early next year so it should be quite easy to find the X2s within your price range if you can be patient and also diligent in searching for a good deal.

The Philips SHP9500 are also a good choice but you’ll give up some bass and a little bit of soundstage in exchange for them usually being much cheaper than the X2s. They are also about to be succeeded by the 9600model early next year so again, you might be able to find it even cheaper than usual as retailers look to shift inventory in anticipation of the new model.

AKG712 Pro are very good but can fluctuate wildly in pricing. They often see heavy discounts but if you can find one in your price range then they would be well worth it.

If the Sennheiser 37X is out because Drop doesn’t ship to your country then what about the mass retail versions? Sennheiser Game One, 373D etc.

Whish I had bought Fidelio X2 when I had a chance, they were like $120 months ago in my country but now out of stock. SHP9500 is easier to find and quite cheap. I did a little price search and their cost to me for the headphones you mentioned. So I can buy SHP9500 for $122, Game One for $207, X2 for $212, PC373D for $214 and you didn't mention but HD599 for $208. They are quite close on pricing except SHP9500 but which one to buy.

 

[SierraMadre]

Whish I had bought Fidelio X2 when I had a chance, they were like $120 months ago in my country but now out of stock. SHP9500 is easier to find and quite cheap. I did a little price search and their cost to me for the headphones you mentioned. So I can buy SHP9500 for $122, Game One for $207, X2 for $212, PC373D for $214 and you didn't mention but HD599 for $208. They are quite close on pricing except SHP9500 but which one to buy.

Out of those, I’d choose the Fidelio X2s.