[AxelCloris]

just a couple of questions as I have only used the ether c 1-1's for music and gaming.

What is the bass/sound stage like for an open headphone? I will be gaming a lot in them as well as listening to house, rock/metal and hiphop.

Here's my conumdrum. I can upgrade my ether c 1.1's to the flows (non c flows I would get) or for a similar price point I could just buy a new set of elears, but there's an issue there as well, I'm starting to hear bad things about the drivers dostorting or other issues and seeing no so great reviews on them now they've been out in the wild for some time.

Personally I'm really leaning to the upgrade path for the ether flows. Or i might just say stuff it and keep them and just buy the flows hahaha. I also just pre ordered the new AEONs as well. (I'm a sound whore). Thanks for any help.

Please make my decisission for me. What would you do hahahaha.

 
Typically speaking, soundstage is larger and bass is less prominent on an open headphone when compared to a closed model. I haven't spent much time with the C Flow, but going off the Ether vs Ether C, the C had more sub-bass and the Ether had a bit of a bump in the mid-bass with more falloff as it got lower. The C Flow that I spent the most time listening to was an early model that had a defect, so I can't make solid comparisons from memory as it wouldn't be fair to a functioning pair.
 
I can't say that I've heard an Elear distorting, but I'll be honest and admit that I don't listen to the one we have at the office because the sound signature doesn't match my preferences. I greatly prefer the Utopia if using anything from the Focal line. For me my original Ether was the best compromise headphone I could find, so I bought it. When the Flow came along, it made it seem as though the headphones weren't compromising anymore and were able to deliver almost 100% of what I wanted. The only real complaint I have when gaming with the Ether is that it doesn't have the largest of soundstages, but still quite spacious for a planar.
 
The ÆON is one I've been curious to use for gaming, and if my coworkers aren't listening to them at home this week I'll try to get some quick games going with them. Speaking of, Jude may have taken the Elear pads off the Elear to use with the Utopia again, so I might not be able to test those until late in the week.
 
My prediction: the Flow will best the Elear. I've been wrong with my predictions before, but the Elear has a signature that I find is typically better suited to music listening than gaming. As a friend described it, it's like a super-HD 650, and if it's like the HD 650 I owned previously it'll be too thick sounding to be as immersive as I'd like. We'll see what happens when I get to listen.

 

[iAudio365]

Typically speaking, soundstage is larger and bass is less prominent on an open headphone when compared to a closed model. I haven't spent much time with the C Flow, but going off the Ether vs Ether C, the C had more sub-bass and the Ether had a bit of a bump in the mid-bass with more falloff as it got lower. The C Flow that I spent the most time listening to was an early model that had a defect, so I can't make solid comparisons from memory as it wouldn't be fair to a functioning pair.

I can't say that I've heard an Elear distorting, but I'll be honest and admit that I don't listen to the one we have at the office because the sound signature doesn't match my preferences. I greatly prefer the Utopia if using anything from the Focal line. For me my original Ether was the best compromise headphone I could find, so I bought it. When the Flow came along, it made it seem as though the headphones weren't compromising anymore and were able to deliver almost 100% of what I wanted. The only real complaint I have when gaming with the Ether is that it doesn't have the largest of soundstages, but still quite spacious for a planar.

The ÆON is one I've been curious to use for gaming, and if my coworkers aren't listening to them at home this week I'll try to get some quick games going with them. Speaking of, Jude may have taken the Elear pads off the Elear to use with the Utopia again, so I might not be able to test those until late in the week.

My prediction: the Flow will best the Elear. I've been wrong with my predictions before, but the Elear has a signature that I find is typically better suited to music listening than gaming. As a friend described it, it's like a super-HD 650, and if it's like the HD 650 I owned previously it'll be too thick sounding to be as immersive as I'd like. We'll see what happens when I get to listen.

Wow Thanks Axel for your detailed response.

Thats the thing with headphones they all sound different, unfortunatly I can't buy every pair to try haha. Wish i could!

I decided and went with the Ether Flow full upgrade path from my Ether C 1.1's and I think as previously stated by another member on here they will compliment my AEONs very well when i get them in (the wait is killing me haha)

I loved the the 1.1s for gaming and I have heard many say the bass and sound stage is even better in the flows so even a slight upgrade I will be more than happy with. And having a pair of AEONs as well I might end up just using them for gaming and on the go as well seeing as I hear almost anything can drive them.

Now I'm just tossing up on up graded amp/dac for my deaktop which I don't have to much space so I hear the Mojo might be the way to go and will compliment both headsets very well as its a little warmer. Plus i can take it with me.

I need to do more research on it though as I was under the impression it was an all in one amp/dac combo (must of read it wrong somewhere down the line)

I know your busy, but if if have any good ideas for an amp/dac all in one unit or even think the mojo + something else added is the way to go I am all ears.

Have a great day!

Edit: Sorry I should say as well, I listen to a ***** load of music, hiphop, house, rock etc. not just gaming. But I do have a gaming addiction

 

[Evshrug]

DNA monster pro for $99.00 for Music listening first, immersive gaming second. YAY OR NAY?

Mad loved them, because they had his ideal "Fun" sound signature, but the headband snapped like Beats used to do (back when Monster made them). $99 is a very good price on those, but I recommend reading Mad's review and see if his description matches what you're looking for.

Wow Thanks Axel for your detailed response.

...
Now I'm just tossing up on upgraded amp/dac for my desktop, on which I don't have to much space. I hear the Mojo might be the way to go, and will compliment both headsets very well, as its a little warmer. Plus I can take it with me.

I need to do more research on it though as I was under the impression it was an all in one amp/dac combo (must of read it wrong somewhere down the line).

Love my Mojo!
I have to ask though, warmer than what? I wouldn't say the Mojo changes the frequency response to bring more dB in the mid and midbass range, I think it has a relatively flat frequency response. However, this is no flat soda; it gives me the fizz! (Kudos if you get the TopGear reference). Compared to my Creative E5, for example, it does sound more exciting and lively because the impact is more solid, timbre is more real and has more going on (gotta love the cello strings in the For Honor beta!), soundstage depth is easier to hear, and female vocals are more real instead of digital/plastic (and that realism is more sweet to me). I have heard DACs and Amps that seem to bring the low end more forward than the Mojo does; I characterize the Mojo by its energetic, addictive qualities. By comparison, I characterize the SoundBlaster X7 by its airy, detail focused sound. Using the Mojo with the X7 definitely doesn't hurt the surround or soundstage capabilities!

Also, the Mojo DOES function as a standalone unit without needing another amp (though sometimes I use my Liquid Carbon), but it doesn't use capacitors, potentiometer, or (I believe) opamps as you would traditionally expect from an amplifier. It controls volume digitally with voltage output, and it has an overall shorter signal path between DAC and headphone. In short, it works as a stand-alone if you feed it a digital signal.

 

[iAudio365]

Mad loved them, because they had his ideal "Fun" sound signature, but the headband snapped like Beats used to do (back when Monster made them). $99 is a very good price on those, but I recommend reading Mad's review and see if his description matches what you're looking for.
Love my Mojo!
I have to ask though, warmer than what? I wouldn't say the Mojo changes the frequency response to bring more dB in the mid and midbass range, I think it has a relatively flat frequency response. However, this is no flat soda; it gives me the fizz! (Kudos if you get the TopGear reference). Compared to my Creative E5, for example, it does sound more exciting and lively because the impact is more solid, timbre is more real and has more going on (gotta love the cello strings in the For Honor beta!), soundstage depth is easier to hear, and female vocals are more real instead of digital/plastic (and that realism is more sweet to me). I have heard DACs and Amps that seem to bring the low end more forward than the Mojo does; I characterize the Mojo by its energetic, addictive qualities. By comparison, I characterize the SoundBlaster X7 by its airy, detail focused sound. Using the Mojo with the X7 definitely doesn't hurt the surround or soundstage capabilities!

Also, the Mojo DOES function as a standalone unit without needing another amp (though sometimes I use my Liquid Carbon), but it doesn't use capacitors, potentiometer, or (I believe) opamps as you would traditionally expect from an amplifier. It controls volume digitally with voltage output, and it has an overall shorter signal path between DAC and headphone. In short, it works as a stand-alone if you feed it a digital signal.

Wow, thanks so much for the feed back. You sold me. I will get one, would there be any other over the X7 to pair it with that you might recommend? A friend said a lot of people use it with the liquid carbon (but I know they discontinued that i think)

Again thank you so much for the help.

 

[iAudio365]

Mad loved them, because they had his ideal "Fun" sound signature, but the headband snapped like Beats used to do (back when Monster made them). $99 is a very good price on those, but I recommend reading Mad's review and see if his description matches what you're looking for.
Love my Mojo!
I have to ask though, warmer than what? I wouldn't say the Mojo changes the frequency response to bring more dB in the mid and midbass range, I think it has a relatively flat frequency response. However, this is no flat soda; it gives me the fizz! (Kudos if you get the TopGear reference). Compared to my Creative E5, for example, it does sound more exciting and lively because the impact is more solid, timbre is more real and has more going on (gotta love the cello strings in the For Honor beta!), soundstage depth is easier to hear, and female vocals are more real instead of digital/plastic (and that realism is more sweet to me). I have heard DACs and Amps that seem to bring the low end more forward than the Mojo does; I characterize the Mojo by its energetic, addictive qualities. By comparison, I characterize the SoundBlaster X7 by its airy, detail focused sound. Using the Mojo with the X7 definitely doesn't hurt the surround or soundstage capabilities!

Also, the Mojo DOES function as a standalone unit without needing another amp (though sometimes I use my Liquid Carbon), but it doesn't use capacitors, potentiometer, or (I believe) opamps as you would traditionally expect from an amplifier. It controls volume digitally with voltage output, and it has an overall shorter signal path between DAC and headphone. In short, it works as a stand-alone if you feed it a digital signal.

Alright it seems cavalli audio has the liquid carbon 2.0 still in stock I think i will get that to pair with the mojo. Hearing some very good things about it.

 

[AxelCloris]

Wow, thanks so much for the feed back. You sold me. I will get one, would there be any other over the X7 to pair it with that you might recommend? A friend said a lot of people use it with the liquid carbon (but I know they discontinued that i think)

Again thank you so much for the help.

 
Just a quick note: the Mojo isn't able to decode anything over a 2-channel signal on its own, so that means no surround processing. If you're going back and forth deciding between the X7 and the Mojo for gaming use, you'll need to have some way to get a processed digital signal into the Mojo and that requires additional hardware. For music I personally feel that the Mojo spanks the X7, but the X7 is the better all-rounder that doesn't need additional hardware for surround gaming.
 
I run my Mojo out of my PC via optical for gaming. Inside the PC I have a Xonar DG that generates a digitally pre-mixed Dolby Headphone signal for my Mojo, giving me surround sound on all games. On console you'd need something like the X7 to mix the signal and then digitally send it to your Mojo and that setup does take time to... set up. You mentioned desktop gaming above, is that all you use? No console?
 
I think the Mojo is the better sounding unit, but if you're on console or don't want to buy extra hardware for a PC the X7 may be the better option. The Mojo doesn't require an amp for the ETHER Flow, but a good amp will give you more headroom and more authority in the sonics.

 

[Azurik]

I asked before but how is the mojo for gaming? I prefer stereo sound so using the mojo without vss wouldn't bother me.

I'm looking to get the mojo for gaming (ps4), music and whatever else I can you it for.

Is it worth it and would it sound better on the ps4 than a cheap optical DAC/Amp? Or would there be hardly any difference justifying the price? It would probably sound better than plugging the cans directly in the controller or TV headphone jack but is the mojo as good for gaming as for music, bearing in mind the ps4 "only" does 16bit 44.1khz if I'm not wrong.

 

[Evshrug]

You don't use headphone surround? GIT OUTTA this thread, aaahrahrahrawr!



Joking aside, sorry that headphone surround sounds less realistic for you rather than more realistic. Every once in awhile, people like you hear reverb and distortion rather than an enhanced sense of imaging, so you're not alone. I kinda wish I could set up a personalized measurement using a Smyth Realiser and see if things sound realistic and out of your head for those who haven't gotten to hear good headphone surround yet, just to see if THAT would work. But I digress.

The Mojo is going to have a more accurate reproduction of analog signals from digital bitstreams, even with CD quality music and equivalent-quality 16/44.1kHz gaming audio. I don't actually know if the PS4 games can output better than 16/44.1, but even at that rate a cheaper DAC sounds more dull and compressed than a Mojo. The soundstage will still seem to only span between your ears in a straight line, but weirdly you will still get a better sense of depth and imaging too. If you can afford it, I would recommend a Mojo, even to gamers.

 

[iAudio365]

Just a quick note: the Mojo isn't able to decode anything over a 2-channel signal on its own, so that means no surround processing. If you're going back and forth deciding between the X7 and the Mojo for gaming use, you'll need to have some way to get a processed digital signal into the Mojo and that requires additional hardware. For music I personally feel that the Mojo spanks the X7, but the X7 is the better all-rounder that doesn't need additional hardware for surround gaming.

I run my Mojo out of my PC via optical for gaming. Inside the PC I have a Xonar DG that generates a digitally pre-mixed Dolby Headphone signal for my Mojo, giving me surround sound on all games. On console you'd need something like the X7 to mix the signal and then digitally send it to your Mojo and that setup does take time to... set up. You mentioned desktop gaming above, is that all you use? No console?

I think the Mojo is the better sounding unit, but if you're on console or don't want to buy extra hardware for a PC the X7 may be the better option. The Mojo doesn't require an amp for the ETHER Flow, but a good amp will give you more headroom and more authority in the sonics.

I mainly game on pc, listen to music from pc etc I have a ps4 and xbox one as well. The x1 just used for netflix lol. The ps4 i use for exclusives (but rarely gets used at all) i have a ASUS Maximus VIII Hero Alpha motherboard in my pc that has onboard audio built in. The souncard it uses on my mb is supreme fx (quoted from asus below)

"ESS® ES9023P digital-to-analog converter (DAC) with Hyperstream™ technology, ultra-low-jitter clock, Nichicon capacitors, 2VRMS headphone amp, and Sonic SenseAmp that automatically detects and optimizes any headset (32-600ohms) for purest sound quality. SupremeFX 2015 also features intuitive Sonic Studio II, so you'll apply and enjoy different audio effects for perfect entertainment" so combined with that would the mojo be all i need? Or should i get an amp as well? Was looking at the liquid carbon but found a pretty nasty thread on here https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/12642-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon/ which kinda put me off is all that true? Or would you recommend something else in a similar price bracket being that i have the onboard audio built into my mb as it is. I can still by the Xonar as well for console use.

I like the mojo also becausebof its size and I'm currently running my schiit uber stack through the digital optical cable.

Edit: is the x7 your talking about the creative sound blaster x7 or do you have a link?

But all in all I'm stuck on getting the mojo for sure just want a great amp to team up with it

 

[Azurik]

You don't use headphone surround? GIT OUTTA this thread, aaahrahrahrawr!



Joking aside, sorry that headphone surround sounds less realistic for you rather than more realistic. Every once in awhile, people like you hear reverb and distortion rather than an enhanced sense of imaging, so you're not alone. I kinda wish I could set up a personalized measurement using a Smyth Realiser and see if things sound realistic and out of your head for those who haven't gotten to hear good headphone surround yet, just to see if THAT would work. But I digress.

The Mojo is going to have a more accurate reproduction of analog signals from digital bitstreams, even with CD quality music and equivalent-quality 16/44.1kHz gaming audio. I don't actually know if the PS4 games can output better than 16/44.1, but even at that rate a cheaper DAC sounds more dull and compressed than a Mojo. The soundstage will still seem to only span between your ears in a straight line, but weirdly you will still get a better sense of depth and imaging too. If you can afford it, I would recommend a Mojo, even to gamers.

Thanks for your reply. I do use a mixamp TR once in a while but as soon as I hit the Dolby headphone button and the echoey sound kicks in, I remember why I don't like it. Playing Call of Duty for example in an outside area and it sounds like in a cave is somewhat an immersion killer. Besides more and more games seem to have their own vss or similar headphone mode already on disc such as resident evil 7 or similar. Xbox one is also getting a headphone surround built in with the next update. It appears that the times of all the tacs and mixamps might be coming to an end. Hence my idea of using a good DAC/Amp with decent headphones. Got the Akg k812 for gaming so I hope the mojo would benefit greatly.

In regards to the a16 Smyth I think on paper it sounds great with atmos, DTS x and all other headphone surround modes supported but as mainly a gamer it won't be any good to me because all games today support only DTS at best. The a16 probably has some sort of upscale but from a gaming prospective it does not make much sense to purchase. That might change when the next gen of consoles roll out with better sound support. Unless I'm totally wrong the the a16 is also a beast for gaming then I'm preordering one now

 

[AxelCloris]

I mainly game on pc, listen to music from pc etc I have a ps4 and xbox one as well. The x1 just used for netflix lol. The ps4 i use for exclusives (but rarely gets used at all) i have a ASUS Maximus VIII Hero Alpha motherboard in my pc that has onboard audio built in. The souncard it uses on my mb is supreme fx (quoted from asus below)

"ESS® ES9023P digital-to-analog converter (DAC) with Hyperstream™ technology, ultra-low-jitter clock, Nichicon capacitors, 2VRMS headphone amp, and Sonic SenseAmp that automatically detects and optimizes any headset (32-600ohms) for purest sound quality. SupremeFX 2015 also features intuitive Sonic Studio II, so you'll apply and enjoy different audio effects for perfect entertainment" so combined with that would the mojo be all i need? Or should i get an amp as well? Was looking at the liquid carbon but found a pretty nasty thread on here https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/12642-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon/ which kinda put me off is all that true? Or would you recommend something else in a similar price bracket being that i have the onboard audio built into my mb as it is. I can still by the Xonar as well for console use.

I like the mojo also becausebof its size and I'm currently running my schiit uber stack through the digital optical cable.

Edit: is the x7 your talking about the creative sound blaster x7 or do you have a link?

But all in all I'm stuck on getting the mojo for sure just want a great amp to team up with it

 
Yes, the X7 I refer to is the Creative Sound Blaster X7. It's a nice offering for a complete package.
 
I don't know anything about the built-in sound card on your motherboard, so you'll have to look into the settings to see if it can do what you need. Since the Mojo is doing all of the heavy lifting, the only thing your motherboard will need to do is output a surround processed signal digitally over coax or optical. Most sound cards cannot output a processed digital signal, settling for only doing the processing on the card's analog outputs. The Xonar DG I mentioned is for PC, it won't do anything for consoles. Its only task is to generate the signal my Mojo needs to give me surround gaming on the PC.
 
As for amping, my suggestion is to first try the Mojo by itself and see how that resonates with you. If you feel it needs more power then you can always add an amp later. If you like how it sounds without it then you're set without spending any more. The variable output on the Mojo is strong enough to drive the Flow to what I consider painful levels. Adding an amp to the Mojo isn't something that's required, only suggested if you want more current for the headphone. I used to use the Mojo > LC combo and found it to be excellent and better than the Mojo by itself, but the Mojo alone is no slouch.

 

[Evshrug]

Aw.
iAudio365, I was most of the way through a great reply to you, had to set my phone down for awhile. When I came back, the page refreshed, my type was trashed, and I am sad.
Don't even remember what I was going to say. Cavalli makes excellent sounding gear, I guess.

 

[Evshrug]

I mainly game on pc, listen to music from pc etc I have a ps4 and xbox one as well. The x1 just used for netflix lol. The ps4 i use for exclusives (but rarely gets used at all) i have a ASUS Maximus VIII Hero Alpha motherboard in my pc that has onboard audio built in. The souncard it uses on my mb is supreme fx (quoted from asus below)

"ESS® ES9023P digital-to-analog converter (DAC) with Hyperstream™ technology, ultra-low-jitter clock, Nichicon capacitors, 2VRMS headphone amp, and Sonic SenseAmp that automatically detects and optimizes any headset (32-600ohms) for purest sound quality. SupremeFX 2015 also features intuitive Sonic Studio II, so you'll apply and enjoy different audio effects for perfect entertainment" so combined with that would the mojo be all i need? Or should i get an amp as well? Was looking at the liquid carbon but found a pretty nasty thread on here https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/12642-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon/ which kinda put me off is all that true? Or would you recommend something else in a similar price bracket being that i have the onboard audio built into my mb as it is. I can still by the Xonar as well for console use.

I like the mojo also becausebof its size and I'm currently running my schiit uber stack through the digital optical cable.

Edit: is the x7 your talking about the creative sound blaster x7 or do you have a link?

But all in all I'm stuck on getting the mojo for sure just want a great amp to team up with it

ooooOOOH GEEZ!! Look, the members of that website (lead by a guy who makes and sells his own amps) and another website (lead by the president of another rival amp maker) have generally had it in for Cavalli since well before the Carbon was even released. Here's the opening argument on your link, paraphrased:

I bought a broken one so I can tell you guys how bad it is!
Here's pictures of the inside.
Cavalli is a liar!
It has a phase splitter (to split single-ended inputs into a balanced signal before doing balanced amplification, no mention of balanced inputs), so it's not actually balanced!
It's a weak amp! (Conservatively rated for 1.5W @32 Ohms, uuuuuh that's not weak)
He uses off the shelf parts, what a crook!
He made his own parts, what a cheapskate! Swearing!
Never fear, I will be a hero and take a hit so I can leave a bad review of it... head-fi style.

First comment after that is "I'm glad I talked someone out of it. Also, bad omen that it damages the amp if you connect headphones to both the SE and Balance outputs!" (Uh, unless there are two separate amps or a hard wired switch, you should never ever connect headphones to SE and Balanced at the same time, on any amp)

I'm not saying there aren't other good or great amps out there, I'm just saying the Liquid Carbon re-set the bar high for what a $700 or $800 amp could do, and though mine had an issue initially (Cavalli had it fixed and shipped back in my house in like a week and a half) it has been working flawlessly and sounding great for over a year now. Pre-biased and self-contradictory flame threads on angry sub communities aren't going to sway me from enjoying my unit and recommending it as a good amp for others.

But like AxelCloris said, just try the Mojo first. You might be satisfied right away. But if you want a LC and you want to pick up a LC 2 before this group ends, that's ok too because it's a great sounding amp and will retain its resale value well if you feel like trying something else. Your own ears will be the best judge.

 

[MichaelJames99]

I want a fresh look at options here....  My budget has been reduced to around $500.   Looking for help here!!! Need to replace 3 year old Creative Sound Recon3D .. 100% surround movie watching use.. My Recon3D which I have been using for watching movies just tanked and I need to replace it. It was ok, but not great. I typically am feed it streaming movies from DirectTV or my Samsung BD-F7500 4K Upscaling Blu-ray Disc Player (2014 Model). Ive been using a 15 year old tube amp (Musical Fidelity XCAN v2). AKG K712 headphones. TV is Panasonic 65" VT60. I dont have to keep the XCAN. Marantz AV7702 preamp processor (but the headphone surround mode sucks in my opinion)
 
So Im looking for options. I was hoping to be around $500.  
 
 
1.. The Sound Blaster X7 sounds good here too and have heard some people going with the full upgrade options ( Sparkos SS3601 and SS3602 OP amp upgrade )
2. There is the Ear Force Dss2? Mixamp Pro TR?  Turtle Beach - Elite Pro Tactical Audio Controller - DTS Headphone:X 7.1
3. Separate DAC in the chain?
 
Are there other options I should be looking at?
Does any know where I could buy a fully upgraded X7 (Im not very handy and would prefer someone who has already installed the full op amp upgrades.)
Can any hypothesize how these would compare?
 
I am 100% movie watching Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[iAudio365]

Aw.
iAudio365, I was most of the way through a great reply to you, had to set my phone down for awhile. When I came back, the page refreshed, my type was trashed, and I am sad.
Don't even remember what I was going to say. Cavalli makes excellent sounding gear, I guess.

Haha. I hate that.

Read all your reaponses you put my mind at eaze with sensible well thought out and knowledgable responses. Thank you so much I will get the LC and the Mojo seems like a good set and amazingly their still in stock at cavalli. I thought they would of all gone by now. Anyway thanks again you have been a fantastic help.