[gardenoflight]

My apologies if this post is insanely stupid for people who actually understand this stuff(I have a feeling that it might be) but if anyone would be kind enough to offer me some guidance about adding virtual surround to my setup I would greatly appreciate it. It's my first foray into Dolby stuff and I'm rather confused about how my options. 
 
Currently, I have my Playstation 4 going through optical to a cheap DAC(Fii0 something) to the line in on my motherboard. My computer is then going through optical out to an Audioengine D1 to my headphones/speakers. I'm plenty satisfied with the audio quality of this setup, but I'm spending quite a bit of time playing my PS4 lately and I think I would benefit immensely from access to virtual surround for consoles. 
 
Map thing I've seen some people use: PS4 -> Optical Toslink Cable -> Fii0 DAC -> RCA to 3.5mm cable into line in on motherboard-> Optical Toslink Cable -> Audio Engine D1 -> Speakers/Headphones 
 
Would straight out swapping the Fii0 DAC with an Astro Mixamp work? I've read that you can use the Mixamp with a headphone amplifier so I know that works, but I'm concerned about piping it back out to another DAC. I would just use the Mixamp straight out, but I really need to preserve being able to switch from headphones to speakers quickly and I considering being able to listen to my PC and console audio simultaneously to be essential. 
 
I actually have a Creative X7 on the way(should be here tomorrow), which as I understand it would simplify this whole thing immensely, but I'm sort of having second thoughts after reading about the various issues it has in threads here. 
 
Again, sorry if this is a super dumb post. I've tried Googling the answers and searching around here, but I think my audio vocabulary might be a little bit too limited to get the results I'm looking for. 

 

[TenMoonsNorth]

Spoiler: Quote: gardenoflight

Originally Posted by gardenoflight /img/forum/go_quote.gif

My apologies if this post is insanely stupid for people who actually understand this stuff(I have a feeling that it might be) but if anyone would be kind enough to offer me some guidance about adding virtual surround to my setup I would greatly appreciate it. It's my first foray into Dolby stuff and I'm rather confused about how my options. 
 
Currently, I have my Playstation 4 going through optical to a cheap DAC(Fii0 something) to the line in on my motherboard. My computer is then going through optical out to an Audioengine D1 to my headphones/speakers. I'm plenty satisfied with the audio quality of this setup, but I'm spending quite a bit of time playing my PS4 lately and I think I would benefit immensely from access to virtual surround for consoles. 
 
Map thing I've seen some people use: PS4 -> Optical Toslink Cable -> Fii0 DAC -> RCA to 3.5mm cable into line in on motherboard-> Optical Toslink Cable -> Audio Engine D1 -> Speakers/Headphones 
 
Would straight out swapping the Fii0 DAC with an Astro Mixamp work? I've read that you can use the Mixamp with a headphone amplifier so I know that works, but I'm concerned about piping it back out to another DAC. I would just use the Mixamp straight out, but I really need to preserve being able to switch from headphones to speakers quickly and I considering being able to listen to my PC and console audio simultaneously to be essential. 
 
I actually have a Creative X7 on the way(should be here tomorrow), which as I understand it would simplify this whole thing immensely, but I'm sort of having second thoughts after reading about the various issues it has in threads here. 
 
Again, sorry if this is a super dumb post. I've tried Googling the answers and searching around here, but I think my audio vocabulary might be a little bit too limited to get the results I'm looking for. 

 

 

 Would straight out swapping the Fii0 DAC with an Astro Mixamp work? I've read that you can use the Mixamp with a headphone amplifier so I know that works, but I'm concerned about piping it back out to another DAC. I would just use the Mixamp straight out, but I really need to preserve being able to switch from headphones to speakers quickly and I considering being able to listen to my PC and console audio simultaneously to be essential. 

 
That would actually work because the output after virtual surround sound processing is stereo (2 channels). Currently you are going Digital to Analogue then Analogue back to Digital via the Line In on the computer then Digital back to Analogue.
 
The Mixamp has a very weak headphone amplifier in it but it should still work in your setup.
 
Does the X7 have the hardware mixer that the E5/G5 has? You could just mix the audio from your console and PC via the X7 but I don't have an X7 and am not that familiar with any software quirks.

 

[gardenoflight]

 
That would actually work because the output after virtual surround sound processing is stereo (2 channels). Currently you are going Digital to Analogue then Analogue back to Digital via the Line In on the computer then Digital back to Analogue.
 
The Mixamp has a very weak headphone amplifier in it but it should still work in your setup.
 
Does the X7 have the hardware mixer that the E5/G5 has? You could just mix the audio from your console and PC via the X7 but I don't have an X7 and am not that familiar with any software quirks.

 
Hey thanks so much for the reply. Really appreciate it. 
 
The X7 would solve my issues completely it would seem(including the mixing), but I'm just a little nervous about some of the things I've heard about it combines with some middling experiences I've had with Creative products/software before. It's good to know that the Mixamp is an option for me as well in case that doesn't work out. Might be for the best anyway, really quite happy with everything in my setup besides lacking virtual surround. 

 

[TenMoonsNorth]

   
Hey thanks so much for the reply. Really appreciate it. 
 
The X7 would solve my issues completely it would seem(including the mixing), but I'm just a little nervous about some of the things I've heard about it combines with some middling experiences I've had with Creative products/software before. It's good to know that the Mixamp is an option for me as well in case that doesn't work out. Might be for the best anyway, really quite happy with everything in my setup besides lacking virtual surround. 

 
The only major problem I'm aware of with the X7 at the moment is virtual surround sound processed audio can't be sent to the Line Out. I'm sure this will be fixed in a future update but no word from Creative at the moment. I'd hope for a response next week after when the christmas holidays will be over.

 

[gr34td3str0y3r]

I'm confused why two dacs? 
"Map thing I've seen some people use: PS4 -> Optical Toslink Cable -> Fii0 DAC -> RCA to 3.5mm cable into line in on motherboard-> Optical Toslink Cable -> Audio Engine D1 -> Speakers/Headphones " 
 
The d1 is an amp/dac right? 
Why are you not going from the PS4 straight to the D1? What am I missing? 
 
I was just asking on this forum about the X7 as a replacement for the Mixamp. If you have that coming try using that. It has a much better amp than the Astro. 
I have been using the Mix Amp for nearly 6 years, maybe 7. I lost count. The thing is great (but wish there was a slightly higher quality option). I upgraded from the A40s to various other better headphones and the mixamp is 10 times better. 
 
A lot of people put an amp AFTER the Astro mixamp... which I guess you need if you have some hard to drive headphones, I messed around with the hooking my O2 into my mix amp, 100% unnecessary IMO and what it did do was amplify the mixamp's noise. I would much rather find a set of cans that the Mix Amp can drive rather finding some that need double amping. (My vote always goes to the X1 or X2. Easy to drive. Nice "fun" sounding U curve, Good bass for games, good sound stage, easy to add 3.5mm inline mic, AND most important you can wear the x1/x2 for 16 hours straight and forget you are even wearing them).
 
And I don't think your post is dumb. I have been into the Astro game for a long time and the audiophile game for 2 years now and I still don't 100% get it. I am thinking of building a PC gaming rig... and I have NO clue what virtual sound options are even available. There seems like there are 15.   

 

[Yethal]

And I don't think your post is dumb. I have been into the Astro game for a long time and the audiophile game for 2 years now and I still don't 100% get it. I am thinking of building a PC gaming rig... and I have NO clue what virtual sound options are even available. There seems like there are 15.   

Two options here. If You want SBX (and or plan to play csgo) buy a soundblaster. If You want dolby headphone, buy a xonar. The cheapest one will do since I guess You'd be bypassing the dac/amp sections anyway.

 

[halcyon]

Two options here. If You want SBX (and or plan to play csgo) buy a soundblaster. If You want dolby headphone, buy a xonar. The cheapest one will do since I guess You'd be bypassing the dac/amp sections anyway.

 
How about:

DD-Live 5.1 bitstream output via optical from ALC1150 codec based soundcards (most Z170/X99 mobos). Feeding this into the new receivers that have DTS:X certification and DTS Headphone:X output (from their probably not so good headphone output)? I've yet to see anybody test this for 3D positional accuracy. If the receivers know how to encode DTS Headphone:X this should work (in theory) now that the DTS:X certified amps/receivers are shipping. When properly done DTS Headphone:X does wonderful positional headphone 3D virtualization. I'm just not sure what the receivers these day do on this.

There's of course Turtle Beach Ear Force Z60 (with supposedly DTS Headphone:X support) but the consensus seems to be that it's not up to snuff - in many different ways (build quality, positioning, headphone amplification). I haven't tested it myself.

Other than that (and the Astros), it's a two-way between Creative and Asus, regardless of whether you pick PCIe card or external USB sound card.

I wish somebody would measure the latency of the major gaming targeted external USB sound cards (X7, G5, U7, etc).

Somebody, in this forum, has several of those cards and could do the test (*hint*) :-D

 

[TenMoonsNorth]

Spoiler: Quote: halcyon

Originally Posted by halcyon /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
How about:

DD-Live 5.1 bitstream output via optical from ALC1150 codec based soundcards (most Z170/X99 mobos). Feeding this into the new receivers that have DTS:X certification and DTS Headphone:X output (from their probably not so good headphone output)? I've yet to see anybody test this for 3D positional accuracy. If the receivers know how to encode DTS Headphone:X this should work (in theory) now that the DTS:X certified amps/receivers are shipping. When properly done DTS Headphone:X does wonderful positional headphone 3D virtualization. I'm just not sure what the receivers these day do on this.

There's of course Turtle Beach Ear Force Z60 (with supposedly DTS Headphone:X support) but the consensus seems to be that it's not up to snuff - in many different ways (build quality, positioning, headphone amplification). I haven't tested it myself.

Other than that (and the Astros), it's a two-way between Creative and Asus, regardless of whether you pick PCIe card or external USB sound card.

I wish somebody would measure the latency of the major gaming targeted external USB sound cards (X7, G5, U7, etc).

Somebody, in this forum, has several of those cards and could do the test (*hint*) :-D

 

 
That could work. Receivers often have a pretty high output impedance on the headphone jack though.
 
Logitech G633/G933 have DTS Headphone:X and Dolby Headphone but nobody here is going to want to downgrade their headphones just for that.
 
The other issue is that DTS Headphone:X is tailored to specific headphones and their unique frequency response. I considered ripping out the internals of a G633 to use it as a DAC but the G633 is going to have a very different frequency response than to the HD800.

 

[halcyon]

The other issue is that DTS Headphone:X is tailored to specific headphones and their unique frequency response. I considered ripping out the internals of a G633 to use it as a DAC but the G633 is going to have a very different frequency response than to the HD800.

 
True that. I had Behringer DEQ2496 while back and enabled me to dial in quite a lot of headphone specific adjustments in almost real-time (low enough latency to not matter for games). Your G633 as an external processor DIY-style makes me think again, but alas, I've sold my Behringer and the SoundWorks headphone specific tailoring probably introduces too much lag.
 
So we wait (in regards to DTS Headphone:X) and while we wait, there are more offerings like these:
 
Tritton Katana HD
http://store.madcatz.com/Tritton-Katana-7-1-HD-Wireless-Surround-Headset-for-Consoles.html
- HDMI-in
- 7.1 channel sound virtualized to headphone output
- DTS Headphone.X
- sub-par headphone - most likely
- only HDMI out (pass through=

 

[Yethal]

True that. I had Behringer DEQ2496 while back and enabled me to dial in quite a lot of headphone specific adjustments in almost real-time (low enough latency to not matter for games). Your G633 as an external processor DIY-style makes me think again, but alas, I've sold my Behringer and the SoundWorks headphone specific tailoring probably introduces too much lag.

So we wait (in regards to DTS Headphone:X) and while we wait, there are more offerings like these:

Tritton Katana HD
http://store.madcatz.com/Tritton-Katana-7-1-HD-Wireless-Surround-Headset-for-Consoles.html
- HDMI-in
- 7.1 channel sound virtualized to headphone output
- DTS Headphone.X
- sub-par headphone - most likely
- only HDMI out (pass through=

Would be cool if instead of the wireless transmitter it had s/pdif output.

 

[gardenoflight]

  I'm confused why two dacs? 
"Map thing I've seen some people use: PS4 -> Optical Toslink Cable -> Fii0 DAC -> RCA to 3.5mm cable into line in on motherboard-> Optical Toslink Cable -> Audio Engine D1 -> Speakers/Headphones " 
 
The d1 is an amp/dac right? 
Why are you not going from the PS4 straight to the D1? What am I missing? 

Hey man, appreciate the reply and the assurances that it's OK to be confused haha. 
 
I would really love to be able to do that, but the D1 does not support simultaneous playback of both it's inputs. Only the optical or USB will work at one given time. I have a multi-monitor desk setup and I'm often listening to music, talking to someone on Skype, or just kind of half doing something on my computer while I'm using the PS4, so having the ability to listen to both devices simultainously without switching an input is sort of at a premium for me. 
 
X7 has arrived though 

 Still playing with things to get them right, but I'm liking what I see so far. 

 

[Change is Good]

Well... I ended up jumping on a crazy 400i deal, recently. Just when I thought I was thinning the damn herd... :/

 

[PacoTaco]

Well... I ended up jumping on a crazy 400i deal, recently. Just when I thought I was thinning the damn herd... :/

If it's one of the new ones, it may be brighter than the measurements suggest, as they did something with the back plate (though that mystery grab bag one is a pre-revision one.)
 
On the bright side (heh,) it will have the new, non-screw-in connectors.

 

[Change is Good]

You sure the mystery bag is pre-revision? The specs say screw on, but sonic confirmed all their 400i are new stock. That would be a bummer, because I just ordered another adapter for my Boompro. If it was rev.1 I could have just used the current screw-on adapter I have.

 

[PacoTaco]

I may be wrong, but it did say screw-in connections on the grab bag's description. But hey, if you asked them already, you should be getting the new one then.