[BlutoSlice]

 

A negative of the DT880 is the lack of soundstage depth compared to other headphones such as the AKG K701. This can be compensated in gaming by for example, on Asus soundcards, using the 7.1 speaker shifter and increase the distance of the speakers away from the dummy head.

 
+1 this is a great feature.. I recommend testing with the 6 & 8 channel multi layer wav from Microsoft  and you will see how useful the speaker shifter is smoothing out the lumps. 
 
http://www.mediafire.com/?zn2f81twfkq2dna  (Zip containing 5.1 and 7.1 wav files)
 
 

 

 

[Xpresser]

 
Quote:

 
 
Xpresser, I haven't tried the A700 (which is actually NOT a closed equivalent of the AD700, but more of a closed AD500). The A900 is more like a closed AD700 from what I've been told from owners. They are COMPLETELY different series in Audio Technica, and people need to stop comparing them as simply open vs closed.
 
Closed headphones can offer spectacular and accurate positioning (i.e. DT770, D7000, Creative Aurvana Live), but the soundstage just won't be as big, which may make the depth of directional cues sound too close at times. Considering the A700 is known to have a large soundstage for a closed headphone, I'm willing to bet that they'll be fine for gaming, though not on par with the AD700.

 
Thank you very much for setting me straight on the AD700 vs A700. That's what I get for believing everything I read. I've also added the JVC RX700 and RX900 to my research list but still far from making a decision. Thanks again for all your advice...it helps big time!
 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I'm still intrigued by the HARX700 and HARX900 myself. Having NOT heard them yet, my curiosity is piqued to see what kind of bang for buck performance they offer. I'm a huge fan of bang for buck. I believe it's worth trying, but I just wouldn't as I know they will not compare to what I have already had, though they can potentially be GREAT.

 

[Styles]

MLE,
 
When youre not gaming with your Senns, what mic set up do you use?  That can be a pain sometimes when you go with dedicated cans.  I would like to see a comparison of your Senns to my Beyerdynamic MMX 300's.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Before the Senn PC360 and HD598  (literally got them both this month), I used everything that you saw in the first post. The ones that got used the most was:
 
AD700
Creative Aurvana Live
DT770 Pro 80
K701
Premium DT880
Premium DT990
 
I ran all my headphones micless, except the Creative Aurvana Live, which I modded with the Labtec LVA 7330 with double sided velcro. I didn't use the mic much even then. After I sold them to obazavil, I got myself the cheap $2.50 dealextreme clip on mic which worked incredibly well (still have it). I wasusing that with the DT990 until I sold it and got my D7000. Now whenever I don't use the PC360, I use the D7000 micless.
 
I'm not much of a chatting player. I tend to NOT use a mic when I'm being serious, as I focus entirely on game audio, and find chatting as a distraction. Though I will chat more now with the PC360.
 
If for instance I'm playing something co-op, I MAY use the D7000 with the clip on mic, but for the sake of practicality, I'd probably just go with the PC360 anytime I need to chat, leaving my clip on as a backup.

 

[Cataphract]

I have objections to the 'Competitive' rating of your headphones, as well as the use of Dolby Headphone for gaming.
 
I own both the AD700 and HD 280, and a sound card (Xonar DX) which supports Dolby Headphone. In terms of spatial accuracy in gaming the AD700 and HD 280 have performed virtually the same in my experience, although the AD700 certainly gives the illusion of a larger space. Dolby Headphone gives a very large sense of space in the game, but my actual ability to find the origin of an in-game sound decreases significantly. By spatial accuracy I mean the accuracy and precision with which I can pinpoint the origin of a sound, whereas by illusion of space I mean how large I perceive the world to be. I actually prefer the HD 280 because the isolation lets me hear more quiet details over the racket of my mouse, fans and CLACKCLACKCLACKCLACK mechanical keyboard.
 
A good way of testing this I think is with the totally invisible bloodsuckers in STALKER Call of Pripyat. In Shadow of Chernobyl you could see their eyes but not so here. With either pair of headphones and Dolby Headphone off in the sound drivers I can track them entirely from the sound of their breathing. With Dolby Headphone on my ability to hear where they are is significantly diminished with either pair of headphones. Battlefield: Bad Company 2 also has an awesome sound engine with great spatial positioning for headphones. In my experience you should let the game software handle the spatial processing, even for older games with very primitive DSP. The Dolby Headphone effect does not know where the sounds are located, and the in-game sounds themselves are all mono clips devoid of any inherent soundstage in the recording. You have to rely upon the game software to recreate the environment, and the accuracy of the reconstruction tends to be the same across various pairs. Additional DSPs like Dolby Headphone can only harm your ability to tell where something is coming from, although I may be overstating degree of the negative effect it has on my perception.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Dunno what you're going on about, but I have played games in stereo with EVERY single one of the headphones I have used to see the difference. Basic stereo is so damn inferior to Dolby Headphone to my ears, it's not even ANYWHERE near close to comparison. It failed, hardcore.
 
We all hear differently. Some people would never use a DSP over basic 2 channel. Some others (like me) would NEVER go back to stereo after using Dolby Headphone.
 
No contest.
 
As for the HD280, the directionality is there, but there is no sense of depth and distance to my ears. It has such a tight and restrictive soundstage, that everything sounds like it's inches from me. No thanks. I'll stick to my FAKE sense of depth and width, while I go 25 kills and 0 deaths, vs going 0-25 with stereo. I have ZERO issues knowing in what exact direction sounds are coming from with the right headphones. Dunno where you get this crap about DH not being able to accurately place sounds, but DH is becoming more and more popular, and I say it's with good reason.
 
As I mentioned before, I'm a console gamer. I don't use keyboards with my games. I don't need that extreme amount of isolation you might need.
 
Pretty much on all counts open >>>>> closed, IMHO.

 

[Cataphract]

What games do you test them in? I haven't found a better test than Call of Pripyat's invisible bloodsuckers.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Best games to test them in are shooters. From CoD4, MW2, Mass Effect 2, to everything in between. Sound placement is incredibly accurate on pretty much every game worth their 2 cents.
 
Like I said, I'm not a PC gamer. Never heard of that game. What's the use of testing a headphone with a game no one plays? Lol.
 
The majority of gamers want the sound accurate for the majority of games. DH works perfectly with any game I've tested...

 

[Cataphract]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:_Call_of_Pripyat
Fairly popular series among PC gamers.
 
I'm just looking for a more consistent test. Going off of variable multiplayer performance is one thing, but being able to accurately track the movement of an invisible monster by ear allows for more direct and consistent comparisons between headphones. Still not the greatest test, and I would still use Bad Company 2 for long-distance comparisons, but better than most. Modern PC games also usually let you choose a specific headphone output mode. I dunno if console games give you that option.

 

[NewVegasBaby]

I think the m50´s ( at least ) sound just freaking amazing in singleplayer games.
I never play competitive multiplayer games so these cans are just perfect
lLast night i played some bc2 campgain and it was incredible
imho they are miles better than the ad 700 for singleplayer games
since they are more bassy and every single sound effect is more intense.
they have terrific imaging too .

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Bad Company 2 works very well on console, you know.
 
Like I said, I'm not a PC gamer, so that game has absolutely no use for me.
 
I play MANY non-FPS or shooters, and can 'accurately' track any sound in front, behind, or to my sides. Perhaps you haven't given DH enough of a chance, but I can definitely hear everything 360 degrees around me without any issue whatsoever. I say shooters are the best because you're basically 'you' and all sounds are happening around you as if it were actually you in the game. Other games use sound cues a little differently, relative to where your character is, and where sounds are in their vicinity.
 
I can say that when I first used DH with the A40s, I wasn't impressed in the least. It sounded unnatural, and I couldn't gauge where sounds were. I just wasn't used to the processing. It wasn't until I got the AD700 where DH opened my eyes. I understood it, and since then, everything has been an absolute cakewalk.
 
DH is very sensitive to the headphone you're using. Some will do a very bad job (for instance, the HD280 Pro, M50), and some will make it seem like you're cheating because it's so good (like the K701, PC360, and HD598).
 
NewVegasBaby: The M50 is very immersive, I'll give them that. However, they don't work too well with Dolby Headphone. They have a very cramped soundstage, not allowing for good imaging and sense of depth and width. They are terrible for multiplayer. The signature also isn't good for mutiplayer because of the deep bass which muddies up the finer details.
 
The AD700 has ALWAYS been stated to be very bass shy, which is why I only recommend them for competitive gaming, and not single player gaming.

 

[NewVegasBaby]

 
Quote:

The M50 is very immersive, I'll give them that. However, they don't work too well with Dolby Headphone. They have a very cramped soundstage, not allowing for good imaging and sense of depth and width. They are terrible for multiplayer. The signature also isn't good for mutiplayer because of the deep bass which muddies up the finer details.

Those are the same charactristics that make them so immersive , making them obsolete in multiplayer.
I think their imaging is good , they are  very detailed.
that campred soundstage makes then unreal with horror games

 

[Cataphract]

I suppose DH might conceivably help on a console where your game's sound output doesn't have a selectable headphone mode. I guess I'll go through some games and test AD700/HD 280 + DH/no DH + headphone/stereo speaker/surround speaker outputs and see how it adds or detracts from my sense of direction.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Hmm, there are other immersive cans with impressive bass than work well in multiplayer:
 
Creative Aurvana Live
DT990
D7000
 
They have a ridiculous level of immersion, great positioning and imaging, and clarity that the M50 can't beat.
 
The last two are a lot more expensive however. XD
 
If you want a BETTER gaming headphone that is cheaper, the Creative Aurvana Live is comparable to the M50's sound with more soundstage depth and width, making it more realistic.
 
Cataphract, DH isn't something you can just test in one day. Spend some time with it to get used to the full soundfield you're enveloped in. Close your eyes when testing positioning IN a game (as opposed to just basic directional tests), and you should start feeling where the sounds are, and not just a strict left or right audio cue.